Wonderful article on Civ4 modding in Game Developer Magazine

[Aussie_Lurker]

Don't get too excited, Frekk, I just checked the article-from end to end-and found not one mention of RR capacity points. If you want my opinion, I think that Joe was having a lend of us, and I fell for it .

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[V. Soma]

Just how did you check the article? I would like to check it too...

 

[Chieftess]

How ironic, is it a magazine for programers and is it only in paper?

I have a question for programers. (that means warpstorm). It seems that the game is gonna be highly moddable, but people complain that making 3D units could be very hard, I was wondering if you can import 3D graphics from other games. For example, can you import units from Pirates to Civ IV? Since they use the same 3D engine (Gamebryo?), it shouldn't be difficult, I guess.

And from other 3D games? Can we add mario brothers clones to Civ IV?

Maybe you could, but is illegal to do that. (If you are not selling the mod, it should be legal, IMO). Maybe there is a legal middle ground and we will be allowed to take units from other games, modify them and import them to Civ IV. It is just an idea for modders. I don't know the technical stuff.

Programmers get their own kinds of magazines where they work too. Where I work, I get "magazines" (just a few pages of code) on .NET languages.

 

[grumbler]

Sorry for being such a PITA, but could someone please tell me which issue of GDM has the article?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

@V.Soma. I checked it out by visiting the GDM website, and paying US$20 for a 6 month subscription (yes, I am that desperate ). I then perused it at my leisure, only to find I had been duped by Joe . If you aren't fibbing, Joe, then please point me towards the relevent section of the article .
@Grumbler. Its the August 2005 edition, if that helps.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[joethreeblah]

@V.Soma. I checked it out by visiting the GDM website, and paying US$20 for a 6 month subscription (yes, I am that desperate ). I then perused it at my leisure, only to find I had been duped by Joe . If you aren't fibbing, Joe, then please point me towards the relevent section of the article .
@Grumbler. Its the August 2005 edition, if that helps.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Ok well everything else I said was true.

I got the 6 month too, I hope they put something interesting in the next 5 issues.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You know, Joe, that was a very cruel thing to do to me and Frekk . Very well done, though, you had me completely fooled-especially when you used this symbol . I thought you were truly in the dark about Capacity Points.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Urederra]

apparently there is some magical beauty to the placement of the structures inside the city, and the beautiful approach gives them an extra "kick" to make them come alive

It is like simcity?

 

[grumbler]

@Grumbler. Its the August 2005 edition, if that helps.

It does, thanks! I was looking at their website and saw that they're also offering single issues for digital purchase. Regrettably, the current issue isn't available at the moment. I'm not quite desperate enough for fresh CIV4 info to pay 20 bucks (yet ), so I'll think I'll wait until the August issue becomes available.

 

[rickb]

Sweet! I can't wait to get my copy at work this month, finally something in it worth reading. Seems like there's hardly been a single useful article in it in lately. Like last month, ooh our first ever game business issue or whatever it was, half of it useless articles, the other half ads.

 

[Janos]

Is it a long article? Can anyone give us some more information on it? Thanks!

 

[warpstorm]

...the other half ads.

You forgot the all important Help-Wanted section.

 

[rickb]

You forgot the all important Help-Wanted section.

Oh I was including that in "ads". If I needed a new job I'd look on Gamasutra first or ask some friends at other companies before I'd look there.

Eagerly awaiting the mail...

Yeah I was talking with a former co-worker that works at Blizzard now, and we both agreed that we would probably never accept a job at Firaxis. The reason? Because Civ is our favorite game ever, so working on it would more than likely destroy the magic and totally ruin the game for us. That old adage about seeing how sausages are made totally applies.

 

[joethreeblah]

Oh I was including that in "ads". If I needed a new job I'd look on Gamasutra first or ask some friends at other companies before I'd look there.

Eagerly awaiting the mail...

Yeah I was talking with a former co-worker that works with Blizzard now, and we both agreed that we would probably never accept a job at Firaxis. The reason? Because Civ is our favorite game ever, so working on it would more than likely destroy the magic and totally ruin the game for us. That old adage about seeing how sausages are made totally applies.

I wouldn't mind starting to play test Civ V so I could finally beat someone at multiplayer when it finally came out

 

[Urederra]

Sorry for bumping the thread, but, Does the magazine say anything worth mentioning that is not vox populi yet?

vox populi = what everybody knows about.


Appart from the ads, which I'm sure they are interesting, and the defence/attack formations, anything new about CIV IV?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hi Urederra, hate to be picky, but Vox Populi actually means Voice of the People-which is getting people's actual opinions on subjects. I think what you mean is 'Common Knowledge'.
Anyway, there is stuff in there which wasn't previously known-at least not to me. The fact that all mods are 'Hot Swappable' is a pretty big deal, as you won't have to keep chopping and changing your main file-like in Civ3-everytime you do a mod, because apparently the computer can detect the mod and load it 'on the fly'. Also, the ability to mod the formation of both units and cities is a pretty big thing too-though mostly to the 'afficianados' ! Some of the stuff was interesting -even to a non-programmer like me-stuff like how the modding tools they added were driven by both their own needs in designing the game and the precieved needs of the modding community, or how difficult it was to seperate some elements of the game into either a Gamecore or AI SDK, because some elements had features of both. Like I said, doesn't really effect the game at the end of the day, its just intriguing to know.
Its true, though, that the 4 tiers of modding were already well known to everyone, but its always nice to see it confirmed-as it lessens the chance of it ever being removed before release

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[civ007]

Regarding L-Systems,

There is a concept in computer graphics called L-Systems. It is often used for generating trees and plants, but can be applied to cities. It is a replacement grammer - ie. define the transitions between states. So a branch can be replaced with a number of new branches, etc ...

I have attached a couple of sample trees growing. The first uses the same rule applied every time and the second uses 6 rules applied somewhat randomly. The branches get smaller as the depth of instructions gets deeper.

Anyways, there is lots of variation that can happen - competition for resources such as light or space can affect growth, etc ... Does anyone know if this is the idea behind the city growth in CIV 4? If so it would seem to be more of a way of displaying cities (when a city grows it would govern which buildings get replaced) rather than a game play issue.

 

[grumbler]

Anyways, there is lots of variation that can happen - competition for resources such as light or space can affect growth, etc ... Does anyone know if this is the idea behind the city growth in CIV 4? If so it would seem to be more of a way of displaying cities (when a city grows it would govern which buildings get replaced) rather than a game play issue.

Judging from the GDM article, that's exactly what they use it for. (Also, just to be clear, the formations seem also to be a purely visual concept.)

Edit: BTW, nice explanation, civ007!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Combined with Civ007's description-and what I remember from the article-the way L-systems will work seems somewhat as follows:

The computer automatically places all of the key improvements and Wonders you build at set points within the city tile, then the computer uses the organic L-system model to place various 'miscellaneous' buildings and roads around them-with the number and size of them dependant on the Size of the city (population). I get the sense that it will also adjust according to tech level-as in civ2 and civ3. In the article, the author mentioned the difficulty they initially had with the L-system model because of the limitation of keeping the buildings within a single square-no matter what.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Slax]

Combined with Civ007's description-and what I remember from the article-the way L-systems will work seems somewhat as follows:

The computer automatically places all of the key improvements and Wonders you build at set points within the city tile, then the computer uses the organic L-system model to place various 'miscellaneous' buildings and roads around them-with the number and size of them dependant on the Size of the city (population). I get the sense that it will also adjust according to tech level-as in civ2 and civ3. In the article, the author mentioned the difficulty they initially had with the L-system model because of the limitation of keeping the buildings within a single square-no matter what.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

With WYSIWYG, it will be interesting to zoom into a modern city to find a resource such as pigs or cattle in there (if it works this way).