Would you ever experiment with your sexuality?

Would you experiment?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 18 18.4%
  • No!

    Votes: 67 68.4%
  • Only with radioactive monkeys.

    Votes: 13 13.3%

  • Total voters
    98
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I came out of the closet at 17. Prior to that, I dated (and had sex with) numerous females in high school. It really just wasn't my bag. To be honest, I wish our society wasn't so obsessed with sex and labels. I would prefer that people just judge me as me, and not put imaginary tattoos on my forehead.
I'm afraid you have to get used to labeling. It's too complicated for humans to remember each person as an individual, so we make up stereotypes and put one or more labels on each person we meet.

I've got to say I find some of the positions taken here to be a bit weird. I mean, I consider myself a straight guy. I've never experimented that way, and I'm not interested in doing so. On the other hand, the people going on about how men they find men physically repulsive strike me as "trying too hard".

I mean, assuming a decently erotic situation where I wanted to fool around with with a good looking guy, I doubt it would be any less fun than masturbation. The male form might not be a turn-on, but it's not going to keep me from getting my game on if I'm so inclined. I mean, it just smacks of self loathing. If I thought masculinity was so icky, I'd be looking into getting a sex change or something.
@Narz:

"The male form might not be a turn-on" doesn't sound like bisexuality to me. Just sounds like a dude that doesn't get upset about wieners. A chick who wouldn't let somebody else's boobs keep her from having a good time would be in the same category, methinks.
Not really. I don't find men sexually attractive, which seems to nix that idea. I can't picture myself wanting to experiment with another guy, because it's not a particularly sexy thought, and I'm not the sort of person who tries things just to say I did them. But if I was determined to break some verses in Leviticus, the other guy's status as a guy wouldn't be a big obstacle.
yup, same here. I never understood the excessively loud denials. I don't know why I should be repulsed by the male form. It's probably got to do with the idea that many still view it as 'unmanly' to be gay, so people try to position themselves as far from gay as possible in order to appear manly :crazyeye:
One of the gay friends I have used to board Russian ships from helicopters to look for contraband and smuggling, while avoiding shooting the crew even though they were drunk and wielding knives or pistols.

Doesn't sounds very unmanly to me. :p

I simply don't like the male body. I'm fine with my own, and I have no problem being in a sauna or a Japanese onsen and sitting right next to naked guys and talking about whatever. But there will be no touching and no direct looking! Staring is impolite and touching is WAY out of line! Unless one wants to pick a fight that is.

But sure, you can suggest that I'm insecure in my sexuality or in denial about something if you like. You're wrong and I don't care. :p

On the other hand, I'll argue that those who could be okay with experimenting are, say, 80% heterosexual then, in contrast to those of us who are very close to 100% heterosexual.

Let's put it another way. Some people like Coke. Some people like Pepsi. Some people even like both. I might exclusively prefer Coke and turn down offers of Pepsi, but I'm not going to vomit if I have to drink Pepsi, and I have to raise an eyebrow at those who say they would.
Not Pepsi itself, but Coca-Cola Light, Coca-Cola Zero and Pepsi Max gives me a terrible feeling afterwards and I really need something else to remove the taste. I would rather go thirsty than drink any of those three.

Brainwashing sounds so malicious. It's fair to call some instances brainwashing. I don't think all such social conditioning is malicious, though.
'Social conditioning' = 'brainwashing'. It's just two terms for the same thing, one term having more negative connotations than the other. :p

I'm honestly not sure exactly what causes it, though I'd be surprised to find out it's pure body chemistry. My roommate knows a goddamn ton of trannies so I just asked her about your "disease" characterization. My first impulse on seeing "disease" was to say "no, no that's offensive", but it's sort of tough to write off completely, because it is a sort of disorder that generally does need some form of treatment for the person in question to be able to live a fulfilling life (notably unlike homosexuality). I don't like the connotations of disease, but yeah, I guess it's disease. There's more to the "cure" than changing only the body, though. A lot of living has to be changed too, and therapy is usually pretty important.
Again, 'disease' is just a term meaning 'a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors'. Personally I have diseases such as asthma, allergies, extremely high metabolism and near-sightedness. I don't put any value-judgment on a disease except for noting that it is, and that a specific disease may reduce an individual's value at certain tasks (I wasn't allowed to be a military pilot, I can't work on farms, etc.). Generally, I take offense at people being offended by me correctly labeling things.

I used to consider homosexuality a disease as well, even an incurable disease (for now anyways). However, it seems that homosexuality is existing throughout nature, in most species that have a male-female dimorphism, and that generally a few percentages of individuals in each population are homosexual (it follows, of course, that a greater number of individuals are on the scale somewhere between heterosexuality and homosexuality). Furthermore, as there doesn't seem to be any natural pressure to eliminate homosexuality, it seems that it is actually a successful way for nature to make sure related individuals have an increased chance of propagation, even if the homosexual individuals themselves are less likely to propagate. Adding to it that homosexual individuals seems to be able to fully accept themselves and their bodies, and can live a good life, there doesn't seem to be any grounds for labeling it a disease.

Transsexuals on the other hand, seems to have greater trouble living a good life with themselves and their bodies without any treatment. And though I have no idea if this is also a condition that can be found in other species (nor any idea how one could test for such a thing), it doesn't seem to have any positive effects on either ones own offspring nor related offspring. As such, I feel justified in labeling it a disease until new information is gained on the subject.

I used to like the scale metaphor, but now, having had relationships with men and women, I don't think one dimension cuts it. Sexuality is complicated. That's part of what makes it so awesome.
As you saw further down in my post, it is actually a multidimensional matrix. However, when only talking about hetero-, bi- and homosexuality, one dimension usually suffice. :)

I couldn't agree more. I think all reasonable people allow a few specific exceptions, but yes, commitment is commitment.

I'm not try to stop you from judging. I'm just going to announce when it's nobody's place to judge something. :)
But I argue that it is always my place to judge anything! :p

If anyone should listen or care about my judgment is an entirely different thing however.

No, I should've worded that better, I suppose, I was extending the comparison. "Do you enjoy the company of men or do you enjoy the company of women?" Both. "Will you assert that god exists or will you assert that god does not exist?" Neither.
A bit less confused, but there seems to be some previous discussion that passed me by. Whatever. :p

I don't mean to be rude about it, but I care more about how they choose to describe themselves and why than what you're going to call them. :) The specific examples are of people having a sort of dynamic sexuality, and I personally buy that it takes more than a couple nights in a hotel room before you aren't [whatever] anymore.
Don't think you need to worry about being rude to me, you don't even really know me. :)

However, I will not let other people use whatever word they wish to describe themselves without me at least objecting. No group of individuals actually owns the language (at least not the English language). I'm still a bit annoyed by the homosexuals who took over the meaning of the word 'gay', which I think was a perfectly fine word with a good meaning before then. :p

The idea of a 'dynamic' sexuality is one that I haven't considered much. Is there reason to believe that some people's sexuality actually changes through their lives, regardless of any brainwashing (read: social conditioning if you want :)) that may come and go? As I have never even felt anything close to a changing sexuality, I do find that a bit hard to believe. But I also find epigenetics a bit difficult to accept (whether or not it's proven to be correct or not)...

Still awkward. I can never concentrate.
Guess we're different then. :p

Also, the word "hole" in this context is unspeakably revolting, please stop using it forever.
Out of curiosity, is this because of your other connotations to the term 'hole', and would a term like 'orifice' be any better?

Personally, I find it to be a very good term from some points of view, if a bit crude.
 
At the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, just because someone can learn to adapt to a disability/disease and live an active and happy life does not make it any less of a disability or disease. I'm more less adapted to Asperger's but it doesn't mean I no longer have a lifelong, debilitating neuro-electrical imbalance :)
 
One of the gay friends I have used to board Russian ships from helicopters to look for contraband and smuggling, while avoiding shooting the crew even though they were drunk and wielding knives or pistols.

Doesn't sounds very unmanly to me. :p

I simply don't like the male body. I'm fine with my own, and I have no problem being in a sauna or a Japanese onsen and sitting right next to naked guys and talking about whatever. But there will be no touching and no direct looking! Staring is impolite and touching is WAY out of line! Unless one wants to pick a fight that is.

But sure, you can suggest that I'm insecure in my sexuality or in denial about something if you like. You're wrong and I don't care. :p

On the other hand, I'll argue that those who could be okay with experimenting are, say, 80% heterosexual then, in contrast to those of us who are very close to 100% heterosexual.
My comment was aimed more at the HELL NO (with capitals, and/or bold) and 'I'm a real man' faction than you ;)

I'm not saying anybody who doesn't want gay sex is insecure, that's clearly not the case. But if poeple feel the need to loudly proclaim their straight-ness at every possible opportunity and as loud as possible it does get somewhat suspicious :)

And if you want to call me 80% heterosexual, go ahead, I don't mind :)
 
At the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, just because someone can learn to adapt to a disability/disease and live an active and happy life does not make it any less of a disability or disease. I'm more less adapted to Asperger's but it doesn't mean I no longer have a lifelong, debilitating neuro-electrical imbalance :)
You are referring to me not labeling homosexuality as a disease anymore?

For me it is simply that it appears not to be a detrimental effect on propagation (as related individuals have a higher success rate), which was basically the only problem I could see with homosexuality.
 
There is a reason I said IIRC, and I am unfamiliar with this Family Research Council.

It has been scientifically proven that homosexuality is not cause by genetics (via twin studies), so we have the environments which they were raised in (and womb environments) as causes

This is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. There is a very strong corrollation of sexuality in monozygotic twins. If one is gay, the other is also likely to be gay. This is not a 100% corrollation, there are obviously exceptions, but this does not prove that homosexuality is not caused by genetics.

It proves that it isn't the only factor, and that personal experiences, cognitive functions, subconscious desires etc etc may also play a part.

However, genetics clearly is a very strong factor.
 
You are referring to me not labeling homosexuality as a disease anymore?

For me it is simply that it appears not to be a detrimental effect on propagation (as related individuals have a higher success rate), which was basically the only problem I could see with homosexuality.

I was responding to you, yes. Even by your second definition, Asperger's is still a disease to me, as I'm unlikely to ever procreate :D
 
I'm not sure what we are arguing, but I do consider Aspergers Syndrome to be a disease as well, yes.

Procreation was only in my definition because it relates strongly to sexuality.

A disease is simply a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment. (Dictionary.com)
 
Actually we can do more, since there are breasts to kiss and fondle and if you really want, you can still get done by your lady, if you are into that thing, so really they are missing out, since they cannot do all the things we can do to women, since they have an extra hole for us, unlike men, with only one hole.

thank god there's women on earth, providing me with an abundance of holes.
 
A disease is simply a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment. (Dictionary.com)

I agree with you. I was just playing Devil's Advocate :)
 
Not really. I don't find men sexually attractive, which seems to nix that idea. I can't picture myself wanting to experiment with another guy, because it's not a particularly sexy thought, and I'm not the sort of person who tries things just to say I did them. But if I was determined to break some verses in Leviticus, the other guy's status as a guy wouldn't be a big obstacle.
It would be for me (not because I give a damn about a book of stories but simply because my equipment probably would not function, shoot there was a rather unappealing female who wanted me once who I could not get it up for, I really don't think I could physically maintain an erection with a guy [unless maybe I was getting oral with my eyes closed & the guy didn't speak then maybe I could imagine him as female but I really don't know & wouldn't find out unless someone was paying me multiple thousands]).

If you can get an erection with a guy (with your eyes open, not pretending it's a girl, etc.) you must be bi. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.

Same as if you eat turkey once a year on Thanksgiving you're not a vegetarian.

Let's put it another way. Some people like Coke. Some people like Pepsi. Some people even like both. I might exclusively prefer Coke and turn down offers of Pepsi, but I'm not going to vomit if I have to drink Pepsi, and I have to raise an eyebrow at those who say they would.
If someone forced me to drink either I would induce vomiting but that's just cause I'm a health nut. Regardless people do have certain tastes & I'd say men & women are a lot different than coke & pepsi.
 
It would be for me (not because I give a damn about a book of stories but simply because my equipment probably would not function, shoot there was a rather unappealing female who wanted me once who I could not get it up for, I really don't think I could physically maintain an erection with a guy [unless maybe I was getting oral with my eyes closed & the guy didn't speak then maybe I could imagine him as female but I really don't know & wouldn't find out unless someone was paying me multiple thousands]).

If you can get an erection with a guy (with your eyes open, not pretending it's a girl, etc.) you must be bi. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.

Same as if you eat turkey once a year on Thanksgiving you're not a vegetarian.


If someone forced me to drink either I would induce vomiting but that's just cause I'm a health nut. Regardless people do have certain tastes & I'd say men & women are a lot different than coke & pepsi.

You're really being far too catagorical with the issue of sexuality. If you're capable of becoming aroused in the pressence of another guy that doesn't mean you must be bi, if you let another guy give you oral it doesn't mean you must be bi. You could even have fully-consenting sex with a guy and not be bi (or gay).

Sexuality is a personal thing. It's not something that other people, or even your actions define. It's whatever you feel you are in side. In psychology and other fields, there is an umbrella term called ''men who have sex with men''. This encompasses all men who have sexual relations with other men, regardless of what they consider their sexuality to be.

There are completely straight guys out there who like to mess around with their friends or whatever, they're not in denial, and they're not bi. They just happen to have sex with their friends once in a while. Similarly many people don't even define their sexuality, because they understand that it's a very complicated matter that can't easily be catagorised in a simple word.
 
in fact, the problem is simply that there are categories in the first place in which we then try to press people in for no other reason than that for our brains it's convenient to categorize things.

who cares if a man having sex with a man is gay or not?
he's a man having sex with a man, tomorrow he might have sex with a bycicle and the day after that with a transsexual space alien while riding a bycicle, i, for one, couldnt care less.
 
I care what we call people! I create and entertain different stereotypes. I label. I categorise. I think such a practice is natural, right, just and good. And if someone don't like it, I, for one, couldn't care less.

If a man has voluntary sex with another man, he is closer to bisexual than heterosexual. On the scale where 100% is absolute heterosexual, and 0% is absolute homosexual, then I would put Ekolite's examples at around 60% heterosexual. (I'll note that I need to adjust the labels on this scale a bit. I don't feel they are completely correct. But you get the idea anyway.)

A man is not completely heterosexual if he enjoys sex with men. If he also enjoy sex with women, he is much closer to bisexual than heterosexual.
 
So around 2 on the Kinsey Scale?

800px-Kinsey_Scale.gif
 
what if he liked having sex with women in the past but now enjoys solely sex with men?

is he homosexual, was he bisexual?

what if he goes back to enjoying sex with women?

bisexual again? but what was he the moment this changed? also, define "present".

:p
 
So around 2 on the Kinsey Scale?

800px-Kinsey_Scale.gif
Sure, I suppose.

what if he liked having sex with women in the past but now enjoys solely sex with men?

is he homosexual, was he bisexual?

what if he goes back to enjoying sex with women?

bisexual again? but what was he the moment this changed? also, define "present".

:p
That like the dynamic sexuality that Lucy was talking about. Not quite sure how to categorise something like that. And does it actually happen?
 
You're really being far too catagorical with the issue of sexuality.
What's the point of sexual categories if you don't use them? :confused:

If you're capable of becoming aroused in the pressence of another guy that doesn't mean you must be bi, if you let another guy give you oral it doesn't mean you must be bi. You could even have fully-consenting sex with a guy and not be bi (or gay).
So what does bisexual mean then if not that you are capable of attraction to both sexes? :confused:

Sexuality is a personal thing. It's not something that other people, or even your actions define. It's whatever you feel you are in side. In psychology and other fields, there is an umbrella term called ''men who have sex with men''. This encompasses all men who have sexual relations with other men, regardless of what they consider their sexuality to be.
Again, if a term is totally ambiguous (I could consider myself gay even though I've never had sexual thoughts about a man) I don't really understand the point of it.

There are completely straight guys out there who like to mess around with their friends or whatever, they're not in denial, and they're not bi.
Again, what does bisexual mean then? If they're "totally straight" how are they able to be attracted to men?

They just happen to have sex with their friends once in a while.
It doesn't "just so happen", they feel attracted & take action. Unless they're being paid/coerced into an action I don't see how they can claim "total straightness".

Similarly many people don't even define their sexuality, because they understand that it's a very complicated matter that can't easily be catagorised in a simple word.
I commend those people. Better than calling your straight when you're bi or gay if you're straight or whatever.
 
Don't you think it's rather important to actually know what you're talking about before spouting BS statistics? To that point:



No.

Twin studies are not particularly reliable in this situation (depending on methodology), as it relies on both twins being fully honest about his/her orientation. There are many reasons why that may not be the case, particularly for twins raise in separate environments. Even so:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus4.htm



If you consider that probably 5% of the population is gay, that twins have a 55% likelihood of both being gay...well that about says it.

There are also far better biological studies to consider, and they do not validate your conclusions:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus6.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus7.htm
What about womb environment? what are the odds of monozygous twins having essentially the same womb environment? Or early childhood experiences?
Did you notice that cola was an analogy? Or is this some kind of convoluted comment on the actual topic?



I elaborated quite a bit on this earlier in the thread. You can find it yourself if you're interested.



Even if this weren't utter manure, how could it possibly be relevant here?



That's pretty goddamn rude you know. I'd appreciate it if you could be less :rolleyes: about this, it's pretty offensive.

What are you asking for? An explanation? Your ignorance is the belief that bisexual = easy, he informed you that that idea is wrong. Bisexuality =/= promiscuity. Now you know better. I will try to help you understand that if you're having trouble.
I was showing that people really can tell the difference between coke and pepsi thus his comparison is invalid
My data seems to be a little bit antiquated
When did I claim bisexuality=promiscuity? Though it does seem that these people sleep around a bit more (though this could be because of doubled partner possibility, this is from high school experience BTW)
At the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, just because someone can learn to adapt to a disability/disease and live an active and happy life does not make it any less of a disability or disease. I'm more less adapted to Asperger's but it doesn't mean I no longer have a lifelong, debilitating neuro-electrical imbalance :)
join the club
This is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. There is a very strong corrollation of sexuality in monozygotic twins. If one is gay, the other is also likely to be gay. This is not a 100% corrollation, there are obviously exceptions, but this does not prove that homosexuality is not caused by genetics.

It proves that it isn't the only factor, and that personal experiences, cognitive functions, subconscious desires etc etc may also play a part.

However, genetics clearly is a very strong factor.
Womb environment could cause it considering they share the same womb environment.
 
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