Would you spank your child?

[Akka]

2 or 3 times in 10 years is basically none at all. Which means your parents used more effective methods the vast majority of the time

It's not "none at all".
It's simply the difference between "using spaking when you really need it" and "raising a kid through spanking", which was quite my point.

I'm of the opinion that a select few occasionnal display of firm authority that draw a clear line are more efficient and better than multiple weak reassertions. Natural authority is often sufficient (when you have it), but children always try to push the limits (and they actually ARE glad when there IS limits, I noticed), and it can happens that one day, you have to enforce them. For this, I think a spank is efficient, when verbal commands aren't enough.
Of course, it can also happens that verbal commands are enough. But it's up to the natural authority of the parent, and the willingness of the kid to obey (or how much they are impressed).

And it's what spank should be : a last resort when verbal commands are not enough. It's not a regular way of showing authority (it would erodes it, in fact, if used too commonly, making the parent appear brutal rather than authoritative).

 

[warpus]

That's kind of like saying that you don't bash someone to hurt them, but to take their wallet. Sure, that's the intent, but it's still involving a physical assault.

Same with spanking. The idea is not to hurt the kid, it's to teach them that whatever they did was wrong. But, it still is hurting the kid (if it is to have an effect). And this violence, like the person getting bashed, will be the more memorable part. Which is not a good message to be sending to kids. Basically, you shouldn't resort to discipline through fear.

You make it sound like I'm saying we should be bashing kids' heads in with baseball bats.

Yes, that would be wrong, and physical assault.

Spanking is not physical assault.

 

[Narz]

Would you spank your child?

No, of course not.

Crummy poll, btw (I didn't use it).

 

[Camikaze]

You make it sound like I'm saying we should be bashing kids' heads in with baseball bats.

Yes, that would be wrong, and physical assault.

Spanking is not physical assault.

Well, it is physical assault. I mean, it may not be all that serious, but, essentially, that's what it is. And the whole method as a way of instilling discipline revolves around the threat of this physical assault, which isn't a good lesson to be teaching kids. It might successfully fulfill the immediate aims of preventing the kid from doing whatever you don't want to do, but in the long term, it sends a completely wrong message. Isn't it much better to teach kids from an early age that problems should be solved without threats and violence?

 

[warpus]

Well, it is physical assault. I mean, it may not be all that serious, but, essentially, that's what it is.

No, no it isn't. You really should look up what physical assault is and what the phrase means.

And the whole method as a way of instilling discipline revolves around the threat of this physical assault, which isn't a good lesson to be teaching kids.

If it actually *were* physical assault, you'd have a point. We're talking about a spanking, for crying out loud, not a punch to the face.

I don't know what kinda spanking you're used to, but it must be different than what I am talking about.

Isn't it much better to teach kids from an early age that problems should be solved without threats and violence?

And how exactly do you propose that can be accomplished with a 7 or 8 year old?

This time-out nonsense is the reason we have so many goddamn spoiled brats running around.. who are growing up into even more spoiled brats and running things that actually matter!

If there was an alternative way to discipline your kids, I'd be all for it, but spanking is very effective and in the long term not very harmful.

Sounds to me like you're being idealistic about this, while I'm being a bit more realistic.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

Apparently it doesn't work that well (assuming you're going for a stable, well-adjusted kid -- if you're an authoritarian parent, the problems posed by physical punishment might be a feature rather than a bug), so why do it? It's much more important to adhere consistently to your rules than the choice of particular method of discipline you use when the kid transgresses the rules.

It seems like the studies show that either (i) spanking's bad, or (ii) spanking's not any worse than other forms of punishment. There's no (iii) spanking's better. Not the best odds; you wanna roll the dice with your own kids? There's lots and lots of research about this stuff. The American Academy of Pediatrics tells parents not to do it. Why take the risk if other punishments work just as well?

Cleo

 

[Camikaze]

No, no it isn't. You really should look up what physical assault is and what the phrase means.

If it actually *were* physical assault, you'd have a point. We're talking about a spanking, for crying out loud, not a punch to the face.

I'm using the definition of physical assault as being some form of physical act that results in pain and damage. Now, this damage is psychological, but is damage nonetheless. I mean, you don't even hit dogs, so why would you a child?

I don't know what kinda spanking you're used to, but it must be different than what I am talking about.

I not even talking about a full-on belting, I'm talking about things like a little slap. It may not seem like much, but it is still physical assault if it succeeds in hurting the child (seeing as that is necessary for the aim to be fulfilled).

And how exactly do you propose that can be accomplished with a 7 or 8 year old?

I don't have the solution, but I could hazard a guess at punishment by exclusion from privileges being one possibility (such as 'you aint getting no dessert 'cause you punched your sister). Kids don't like to be left out or miss out on something they like.

This time-out nonsense is the reason we have so many goddamn spoiled brats running around.. who are growing up into even more spoiled brats and running things that actually matter!

If there was an alternative way to discipline your kids, I'd be all for it, but spanking is very effective and in the long term not very harmful.

Sounds to me like you're being idealistic about this, while I'm being a bit more realistic.

Do you think it's better to have adult thugs running around with the idea of violence is an acceptable tool to solve problems? Spanking will do that. You can point to spoilt brats all you like, but the lack of smacking by parents isn't really the cause of that, is it? It could possibly be a contributing factor in some cases, but the problem would really stem from a lack of other non-violent disciplinary techniques by parents, which are numerous and varied, in combination with this one possible punishment.

 

[warpus]

Do you think it's better to have adult thugs running around with the idea of violence is an acceptable tool to solve problems? Spanking will do that.

No, it will not.

You're attempting to portray spanking (the spanking I'm endorsing, not abuse) as thug-like in an attempt to support your argument. It is not going to work.

 

[Camikaze]

I'm not saying spanking does result in that, I'm saying it can. And certainly will more than other forms of punishment. It is only seen as not being thug-like because it is normal in society. But essentially, hitting kids for whatever reason is not good.

 

[thekaje]

So what is your alternative? No dessert? No dessert is going to keep them from screaming and kicking?

You want them to follow orders not because they respect you, but because they'll get ice cream if they do?

 

[PiMan]

Spanking and smacking is to get them to follow orders because they fear you. Doesn't seem any better.

 

[thekaje]

So you'd prefer your relationship with your kid be founded on a material reward/deprivation system? You want to buy obedience?

Time out is a good idea, but difficult to enforce without the threat of violence.

 

[LucyDuke]

Can we get more input from some actual parents?

 

[thekaje]

I am an actual parent!

 

[Bill3000]

You want them to follow orders not because they respect you, but because they'll get ice cream if they do?

You don't earn respect by hitting your child.

 

[thekaje]

How do you do it?

 

[Narz]

I mean, you don't even hit dogs, so why would you a child?

Nicely put. And a dog is too stupid to even be reasoned with so physical punishment is actually more understandable (though still not really acceptable), do people think their children are dumber than dogs that there simply is no way to train them without smacking their bottoms?

Can we get more input from some actual parents?

I'm a parent & I can think of no reason ever to engage in the ritualized violence & humiliation that is spanking. No matter the problem I can never imagine bending her over my knee & slapping her rear (bare? do the spank-supporters here go old-school or keep the pants on? belt or no belt? if you're pro-belt what crime do you draw the line at? and at what further crime is a tire iron required?) would be the most intelligent & effective solution to teach her a life lesson.

How do you do it?

Creativity and intelligently.

 

[thekaje]

You guys. You train dogs by hitting them. You hit them, you yell at them, and you give them treats.

Creativity and intelligently.

Do you mean like a five-point critique? Or a surprise lecture diorama?

 

[thekaje]

By the way, anyone who is under the impression that children are capable of making or understanding reasoned arguments has apparently not asked their kid enough questions about Blue's Clues.

 

[warpus]

Can we get more input from some actual parents?

I feel that as a certified child, who was spanked, I have plenty to offer in this debate.