[WTP] Quick questions

[XavierX]

Awesome! Thanks.

 

[cynther]

Hi team, just discovered this amazing mod. I have a hard time spotting the goody huts on the map, and since I've done a bit of lens/overlay modding for Civ 5/6, I thought I'd try to add goody hut icons to the resource display. However, I have not found any mods (or guides) that mention these map displays, nor have I gotten very far examining the xml files.
1) Are there any plans/ideas to do something like this with WTP
2) Do you know if it is even possible to mod? I know that Civ4 is somewhat more restrictive modding-wise than later games.

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi team, just discovered this amazing mod.

Thanks.

I thought I'd try to add goody hut icons to the resource display.

You can do that by modifying the DLL (changing C++ source code and compiling DLL again).

But first of all we would need to agree how it should look like exactly and if it would look nice or not.
Something like coloured circles would probalby look nice, but something like buttons might look really ugly.

1) Are there any plans/ideas to do something like this with WTP

Sure, why not. UI improvements are always a good idea.

2) Do you know if it is even possible to mod?

Of course it is. A skilled modder can do almost everything in this game.

I know that Civ4 is somewhat more restrictive modding-wise than later games.

Sorry, but here you are utterly misinformed.

We have access to the full game logic source code for Civ4BTS and Civ4Col.
In newer parts of the serises like Civ5 or Civ6 you do not.

That is why modders that are able to do programming like myself have been so angry at Firaxis and never switched to newer games in the Civ series.
The modding possibilities of Civ5 and Civ6 are a joke compared to Civ4. All you can do in Civ5 and Civ6 is a bit of scripting but no true game core programming.

------------

Summary:

Almost everything is possible in Civ4Col modding.
All it needs is somebody investing the time to do so.

 

[cynther]

Thanks for the quick reply. I was thinking to use the All Resources Display (Alt+R) like below. But a coloured circle might be a good alternative. The game already uses them to highlight a goody hut when it's discovered. Maybe it's enough to just let that stay until the hut is explored.

Spoiler :

 

[raystuttgart]

I was thinking to use the All Resources Display (Alt+R) like below.

That solution would probably result in quite a lot of implementation effort.
And I am not even sure we would achieve a result that would look nice.

But a coloured circle might be a good alternative ... Maybe it's enough to just let that stay until the hut is explored.

Should actually be quite easy to implement. We could turn it into a Game Option in "Custom Game" probably.
(Game Options are much easier to access than e.g. the Video Options under Advanced, which are heavily hardcoded in the exe.)

----

We can put it on the todo list.

 

[raystuttgart]

@cynther
I implemented your request.
(See here)

 

[cynther]

@cynther
I implemented your request.
(See here)

Nice I see you added it to an ongoing branch. Any ETA on the merge?

 

[nci]

Is it possible to playtest development branch e.g. Plains? Downloading it from github, I get many errors and it doesn't start...

 

[raystuttgart]

Is it possible to playtest development branch e.g. Plains?

It will only work if you also compile a new DLL from the current source code in that branch.
Then you could use it for a "sneak peak" which however would not really help us modders.

It is however not yet ready to be really played - it is still in alpha stage - meaning a real internal development branch.
(It may be a good beta earliest around Chritsmas, most likely even after New Year.)

 

[Zingo99]

Hello, been playing a few games and I really wanna praise all those who's developing this mod, please never stop

 

[XSamatan]

Which factors are relevant if I want to build ships in a colony?

I have a really beautiful map, a large and deep bay into the continent, behind this bay are some minor lakes that in some cases are connected to the main ocean by native villages (later replaced by forts).
The three colonies in question have
a) a fresh water lake with 3 plots
b) a fresh water lake with 5 plots
c) a lake (terrain coast) with 11 plots

All colonies cannot be set as destination in Europe, however the pathfinder finds them after crossing the Atlantic without problems. Disregarding the dock level (placed with WB in a and b), all colonies can only build coastal ships, no other types are available.

Is there a setting in CIV4UnitInfos.xml or CIV4BuildingInfos.xml governing the build options?

Perhaps iMinAreaSize?

I'm not at my PC right now, so it is more of a theoretical question. Still playing on 2.9 (however I did not see commits that would change the mentioned behaviour.

Regards
XSamatan

 

[raystuttgart]

@XSamatan
These things are already different in 3.0.1. - due to further improvements considering "Lakes".
And things will be even more different in the next big upcoming release.
Let us please not waste time on such outdated releases as 2.9.

Spoiler :

Most of it is handled in DLL not XML. (But yes some XML will affect the DLL indirectly.)
Nothing though a beginner modder should touch easily because it may affect AI. Lakes and Large Rivers are tricky.

And it is complicated enough to at least take a complete afternoon in Zoom to explain.
That is time I simply do not have, especially if the player would most likely not change the DLL logic anyways.

With "things we changed / improved recently" I mean:
1) Building harbour buildings on "Lakes".
2) Which ships you can construct in Harbour Buildings on Lakes.
3) Sailing from Europe to Colonies on (really large inland) Lakes. (We had a bug there and fixed it.)

However, if you "just connect by a Fort / Native Village" you are simply not directly connected to the Ocean.
You will not be able to build all Harbour Buildings, thus not be able to construct all Ships and can not set it as destination from Europe Screen.
(There simply is no XML setting for that - that is all DLL logic. And changing it would be a very very bad idea for performance or AI.)

---

Summary:
Get the newest Release 3.0.1 first and see how it works there and if you like it.
Otherwise as I said, rules have been further refined in internal development release.

"Indirectly connected by Village / Fort" (for Harbours or Europe Sailing) is however not going to be implemented. (It is too problematic.)
We may instead implement the "Coastal Port / Port District" concept of @devolution. (Please have a bit of patience though. )

 

[Zingo99]

Sorry guess this is the wrong place to ask... but; how does the number of players work? F.ex If I make a huge map and disable 4 AI players, will it be european powers or a mix of euro/indian?

 

[Buffalo Solider]

What are specific differences between Difficulty levels? I searched for "difficulty" keyword on this forum, but couldn't found neat summary.

I've read that king will raise taxes more often on higher difficulties and he will also add more troops, also more royal troops will be there from start, and ... that's about as much as I know. Does it influence player directly in any way? (Like in Civ 4 - some leves directly impact production cost, base happiness, base health) . Does difficulty affect AI (does it affects it's "intelligence", or just gives plain boosts?)

 

[Buffalo Solider]

I also have concerns about natives

I played on Governor difficulty, I placed my cities with NO regards for native villages, some of my cities were just next to them, other 1 tile away. I think maybe because of trading, or maybe because of other reasons (?maybe there were considering me as stronger?) they didn't ever declared war on me, but when my cities completely swallowed them with culture they just gave me 4 villages for free - to be destroyed.

In "vanilla" civ4col when I behaved like this - Indians were also quite patient, but at one point, when I placed 4th city right on top of their face - they got mad and attacked me from all sides. I miss this behavior from this mod. They should get annoyed instead of giving up their land entirely and willingly passing villages to my hands. Specifically in this turn - in which they gave me their villages - they should have declared war on me. That would be much more... "expected"/"fair" for what I have done to them.

(in both "vanilla" game and "wtp" game I payed them some gold, but sometimes no (like 50%/50% of the time I payed/stolen land) (and in both games I placed 4 cities on top of their face, it was always one nation, I didn't spread "annoyence" between few nations.. Only difference was their reaction [declare war]/[abandon their homes and go away])

Do natives in your games behave the same way? They just give away their land for nothing?

 

[raystuttgart]

@Buffalo Solider
Difficulty affects almost everything. It is very similar to what you know from Civ4BTS most likely.
(Production Rate, Price Increases, Combat, Revolutionary Rate, Founding Father Points , Education Points, Attitude of other Players (AIs), King's REF ...)

• The game / mod is very forgiving in low difficulties / handicaps. (Lots of positive modifiers applied.)
  
• In high difficulties / handicaps the contrary is going to happen. (Lots of negative modifiers applied.)

Generally however, we have removed "hard cheats" as much as possible. (So AI is getting very very little for free.)

So if you set the same difficulty for yourself and for Colonial AIs, both of you play basically "equal" chances.
But if you want to give AI and advantage, give AI a low handicap (like "Pioneer") and yourself a higher handicap (like "Conquistador".)

Most people play with this setting.
(It is relatively fair.)

Native AIs:
Explorer (Default)

Colonial AIs:
Explorer (Default)

Human / Yourself:
Conquistador (or higher)

 

[raystuttgart]

Do natives in your games behave the same way?

It depends on the specific Native Leader.
Some are very peaceful, some are very aggressive.

 

[Buffalo Solider]

Ok, that's very interesting. I think I will not get above Governor for now, as my game was.. pretty smooth, but not too easy on this level of difficulty (I'm very hardcore fan of Colonization "1" and only few days ago I found this mod, since so many questions ). This is great that AI doesn't use cheats. In Col1 I believe most of AI's power came from free city improvements and getting 20 tools/trade goods/muskets in every new colony.

It depends on the specific Native Leader.

That's something that I'm going to watch for from now on it must have been that difference.

After checking out :
Oconostota - these Indians just ran away and left me their villages (I had -2 relations +2 base +3 years of peace -7 your ways of life)
Sioux - these "bomb rushed me" with 20 troops entering my borders from every direction and 2 of my small 1-pop towns going down the first turn of war I loved it, despite harsh consequences. (I also had a little bit worse relations with them, at -4)

Now I think it makes sense. Sioux are more war-like and first ones look "gentle" (tho I don't know their history). Still - I think even gentle Indian tribes should fight player if he is just trying to expel them away. I miss col1 Indians that would attack you from time to time even at most positive relations They were not "country" they felt more like collection of people (even though most of them like you, some don't and will attack you)

But I understnad this is impossible in how civilization IV engine works... Or maybe - there could be some "hostile natives" spawning in normal native villages, when player takes their city down with his culture? These hostile natives have "hidden nationality" flag, so they could just walk and attack player.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Buffalo Solider
There are also "Native Raids" (attacks without War). Do not expect to have seen all features after just a few days.
But the Natives will only do so if they are angry and can not afford to declare War because you are much stronger.

"Rading Natives" can also be triggered by other Europeans expanding too agressive though.
(Once they become "Raiding" they are not really picky about their targets anymore.)

The thresholds are different for every Native Leader.
And also Handicaps really make a big difference.

Summary:
If you are always nice to Natives, create lots of Missions and Trade a lot, most tribes will not declare war.
Also "Native Raids" will also only be triggered once a European (you or another Colonial AI) angers them.
If you really want to see lots of Wars and Raids: Play highest difficulties.
(Natives get angry much more easily the higher the difficulty / handicap is.)

 

[Buffalo Solider]

Ah, I just got "raided" today. Desptie losing 90% of building progress of town hall and ~500 gold in early game it's still better then losing 8 pop town. And now I know, that I should always have unit guarding it, even if I'm not at war (yet). I think I had no defences mainly because it was "just my first village" that was swallowing indians, but Logan decided he will have NONE of that!

Overall I like aggressive natives. Even better if they don't burn town but cause problems like raiders from my current game. Burning towns often is game-ending experience, town raiding is much more "balanced" approach.