There could be a separate support for special unit that could include workers, boats, animals and hawks that could be based on population of cities.
[Xtended] Things, Typos, & Bugs...
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There could be a separate support for special unit that could include workers, boats, animals and hawks that could be based on population of cities.
Are raging barbs only supposed to be attacking the player and pay zero attention to AI's?
Im being attacked from all directions, even tribes settled at nearby AI lands send troops only to me. They are still and quiet when they are anywhere far from me, but when I conquer or settly nearby - wake up and begin... raging. In any war, they are just like third side that always hostile to me and neutral to my AI enemy.
Im being attacked from all directions, even tribes settled at nearby AI lands send troops only to me. They are still and quiet when they are anywhere far from me, but when I conquer or settly nearby - wake up and begin... raging. In any war, they are just like third side that always hostile to me and neutral to my AI enemy.
They always attack the weakest civilization no matter if they are AI or a person. Your military just to weak...
To say more, I almost destroyed Elohim civ, but didnt take the last city with 4 his units in it. There are 2 tribes around that city. They never attacked Elohim, but they attack me. I have more than 30 units overall which are also more powerful (11 str vs elohim 9).
Cor'e =)
Warlord
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I watched them destroy an AI civ before coming after my cities, if you attack them they just spawn hundreds and take all your cities (this is maybe what AIs don't do to keep the peace?), then just go idle, they can be idle for hundreds of turns next to AI civs. I think attacking "weakest" is somewhat suspect...
The over-spawning Barbarians bug(s) could use its own (looong) thread, it has already been mentioned here at least.
The over-spawning Barbarians bug(s) could use its own (looong) thread, it has already been mentioned here at least.
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esvath
Apprentice of Erebus
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I think the dubious actions of the Ogres (and any AI controlled units) is based on this:
- if an AI controlled unit lost its valid target, for example a unit set to destroy Acheron and another unit destroy Acheron instead, the unit losing its target has the chance to get "confused" and stop doing anything.
You can observe this on workers; whenever they want to do something but hostile units blocking them, they will just stand idle. So do Settlers when trying to find a city and the targeted tile is suddenly occupied by hostile units, they will just stand still. So do attacking units etc.
This is a problem in AI behaviour and might need someone capable modding AI to fix.
- if an AI controlled unit lost its valid target, for example a unit set to destroy Acheron and another unit destroy Acheron instead, the unit losing its target has the chance to get "confused" and stop doing anything.
You can observe this on workers; whenever they want to do something but hostile units blocking them, they will just stand idle. So do Settlers when trying to find a city and the targeted tile is suddenly occupied by hostile units, they will just stand still. So do attacking units etc.
This is a problem in AI behaviour and might need someone capable modding AI to fix.
Cor'e =)
Warlord
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Odd, i cut down a Jungle and received no Lumber, did that get fixed in v5.2?
My Adept has Sorcery Discipline (which btw, changed from 100% to 50% spell targets in v5.2) and Spell Targets I and i still only get to target 1 on a tile? That's all i get on a 80% increase or a bug?
Still scared? (attacked drake, won, and after i get this effect on moved from tile, my Treasure Hunter unit has Beast promotion).
My Adept has Sorcery Discipline (which btw, changed from 100% to 50% spell targets in v5.2) and Spell Targets I and i still only get to target 1 on a tile? That's all i get on a 80% increase or a bug?
Still scared? (attacked drake, won, and after i get this effect on moved from tile, my Treasure Hunter unit has Beast promotion).
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I'm afraid that your Adept is victime of the rounding method of FFH : rounded down.
this is not (much) noticeable when you speak about hammers/food/commerce which are generally easily in the tens... however, for xp or number of targets. it sucks.
so 80% target increase... is still 0 increase
in the same way that the "clever" promotion with +20%xp gain .. gives 0 for most of the game because you get 3/combat as a base, and 20% of 3 is ... 0.6. not 1
and +50% only gives you 1 instead of 1.5.
I'd rather have "spell targets" give +1 target instead of +30%, and clever promotion give +1xp/combat.
and Commander give +1xp + 35%
anyway. setting aside my wishes, this is the explanation
this is not (much) noticeable when you speak about hammers/food/commerce which are generally easily in the tens... however, for xp or number of targets. it sucks.
so 80% target increase... is still 0 increase
in the same way that the "clever" promotion with +20%xp gain .. gives 0 for most of the game because you get 3/combat as a base, and 20% of 3 is ... 0.6. not 1
and +50% only gives you 1 instead of 1.5.
I'd rather have "spell targets" give +1 target instead of +30%, and clever promotion give +1xp/combat.
and Commander give +1xp + 35%
anyway. setting aside my wishes, this is the explanation
well, I can understand the need for nerf.
for fireballs / greater fireball or thunderstorm or even later great multiple-target attacks : 100% increases leads to 6 or 12 or more targets: and this is huge !
so it needed a nerf.
however, IMO the nerf should have led to a re-thought of it and taken into account that targets are discret amounts of units and not partial units.
(it's like if the aura-increase did +50%distance of aura instead of +1)
for fireballs / greater fireball or thunderstorm or even later great multiple-target attacks : 100% increases leads to 6 or 12 or more targets: and this is huge !
so it needed a nerf.
however, IMO the nerf should have led to a re-thought of it and taken into account that targets are discret amounts of units and not partial units.
(it's like if the aura-increase did +50%distance of aura instead of +1)
esvath
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I am fully aware that "increase spell target" is rounded down. Therefore, tier 1 spells will continue to target 1 enemy, unless using Fireball. This gives Fireball (and Fire school) a distinct flavour and benefit compared to other other tier 1 spells (and other schools).
This does not make the promotions useless, it's just you need Mages or certain type of spells to make it useful. Considering there were suggestions that tier 1 spells are too powerful, I think this is reasonable nerf. To help magic heavy civs, now Sorcery is cheaper; you can access tier 2 spells faster than in previous version.
This does not make the promotions useless, it's just you need Mages or certain type of spells to make it useful. Considering there were suggestions that tier 1 spells are too powerful, I think this is reasonable nerf. To help magic heavy civs, now Sorcery is cheaper; you can access tier 2 spells faster than in previous version.
well, we can agree to disagree on balance, but please remember that adepts have few useful promotions, save those that are limited by level.
spell damage increase is useful, but you need a minimal level to get it and ditto for the version II.
combat I-II-II are not useful for adepts, (as adepts are NOT-Combat units: 5str, no increase of str, makes adepts being non-combat units)
thus, every adept, at least 2 of Aura target increase (useful, as long as you have useful aura: rare early game), Aura distance increase (situational) and Spell target increase are taken at least once.
with the current "spell target increase" if you don't have access to fire, or tier III spells, 1 of those limited options is not-useful. there remains only 2... which make all your adepts identical and un-fun.
I will further add that even with fire mana and fireballs, spell target increase (30%?) is NOT useful as it gives 0.9 new target = 0 !
So this promotion is not useful before you get mages and Greater Fireball.
Maybe replace "spell target increase series" by "spell mastery" : I: -10% mana cost, II: -10% mana cost, III: +20%spell target ?.
spell damage increase is useful, but you need a minimal level to get it and ditto for the version II.
combat I-II-II are not useful for adepts, (as adepts are NOT-Combat units: 5str, no increase of str, makes adepts being non-combat units)
thus, every adept, at least 2 of Aura target increase (useful, as long as you have useful aura: rare early game), Aura distance increase (situational) and Spell target increase are taken at least once.
with the current "spell target increase" if you don't have access to fire, or tier III spells, 1 of those limited options is not-useful. there remains only 2... which make all your adepts identical and un-fun.
I will further add that even with fire mana and fireballs, spell target increase (30%?) is NOT useful as it gives 0.9 new target = 0 !
So this promotion is not useful before you get mages and Greater Fireball.
Maybe replace "spell target increase series" by "spell mastery" : I: -10% mana cost, II: -10% mana cost, III: +20%spell target ?.
esvath
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1) Most adepts have useful auras unlocked by the 2nd or 3rd spell research in their respective school. Life school is especially strong in this case.
2) This "increase spell target" in my opinion is working fine with request to nerf adept, which you also ask for in many occasions, Calevente. Rather than further reducing the damage of tier 1 spells, which will make tier 1 spell useless, I chose to reduce the number of target hit by spells. Now Mages are capable of casting stronger spells, targeting more enemies; more effective overall.
2b) As I have stated previously, this nerf does not make the promotions obsolete; it just delaying their effectiveness. If you think it is useless for non-Fire adepts, take them for Mages.
3) Combat promotions are useful for Bannor and Sheaim adepts, since they can attack and receive no xp from casting spells.
4) Reducing mana cost for spells is fine but actually works against the objective of "nerfing Adept".
- Stronger auras mean stronger magic resistance (basic effect of all adepts' combat aura) and various resistance provided by spell research. Remember that 10 resistance to Unholy = reducing 1 unholy strength from various demons/undeads = reducing 1-2 points from unholy spells, etc.
- More aura target means you can keep adept : soldier ratio low, freeing unit supply yet protecting your troops from harm.
- Larger aura range means keeping your adept behind the front line, and in Balseraphs case, sending Puppets to cast spell instead of sending the adepts toward danger.
2) This "increase spell target" in my opinion is working fine with request to nerf adept, which you also ask for in many occasions, Calevente. Rather than further reducing the damage of tier 1 spells, which will make tier 1 spell useless, I chose to reduce the number of target hit by spells. Now Mages are capable of casting stronger spells, targeting more enemies; more effective overall.
2b) As I have stated previously, this nerf does not make the promotions obsolete; it just delaying their effectiveness. If you think it is useless for non-Fire adepts, take them for Mages.
3) Combat promotions are useful for Bannor and Sheaim adepts, since they can attack and receive no xp from casting spells.
4) Reducing mana cost for spells is fine but actually works against the objective of "nerfing Adept".
aarg... hung by my own rope.
well, it's just that I have a different vision on how to nerf adepts and all while still enabling fun in using them.
I never said that it didn't nerf and didn't work for that purpose.
It's just that, for me, it is pet peeve (?) : having mechanics which effect is made void due to rounding mechanics.
Those promotions are things that make people think that the promotion will have an effect when in fact it does not, or only in a limited number of situations that are not explicit when reading the effect of the promotion... as it depends on a "hidden mechanism : rounding error".
And, if you remember correclty, my points for nerfing adepts was more on :
"please don't give damage spells so early"
"please reduce max damage spell" / damage per spell.
IIRC it was not "spells are too cheap" or "spells allow too many targets" (save maybe for fireball and greater fireball).
(totally unrelated, but poison bomb attacks much more units than a fireball, for no mana cost, and no tech cost, even if limited to living units).
well, it's just that I have a different vision on how to nerf adepts and all while still enabling fun in using them.
I never said that it didn't nerf and didn't work for that purpose.
It's just that, for me, it is pet peeve (?) : having mechanics which effect is made void due to rounding mechanics.
Those promotions are things that make people think that the promotion will have an effect when in fact it does not, or only in a limited number of situations that are not explicit when reading the effect of the promotion... as it depends on a "hidden mechanism : rounding error".
And, if you remember correclty, my points for nerfing adepts was more on :
"please don't give damage spells so early"
"please reduce max damage spell" / damage per spell.
IIRC it was not "spells are too cheap" or "spells allow too many targets" (save maybe for fireball and greater fireball).
(totally unrelated, but poison bomb attacks much more units than a fireball, for no mana cost, and no tech cost, even if limited to living units).
esvath
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These would make Adepts only useful for auras, so I think current implementation of Adepts is better. They still able to cast spells (albeit weak and limited) and they can focus on their auras.
The problem with fixed spell target increase is, +1 for a target 1 spell is +100%, while for a target 4, it is +25%.
Of course, I can make tier 1 spells have minimum target of 3 or 4, so those "increasing spell target" promotions work straight away (I am fine with Adepts casting massed damage spells)...
Yes but as you have said, poison is commonly resisted, even more common than fire. I think most Barbarian units have resist poison of some kind. Not to mention Undeads are completely immune against it.
Opuhara
Warlord
without combat 5 you don't get +1 mouvement right? so the adepts are always late to follow
esvath
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Yes, that's why Hippus Mounted Adepts are better than other adepts.
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