Y U NO GIVE ME JOB?!? The Recruiter Thread

[downtown]

So we've had a few threads on unemployment and job creation, and we also have a bunch of posters between 16-25. Why not talk a little more about the mechanics of getting those newfangled job things, and what makes somebody "create" jobs.

I'm a recruiter. I know Whomp and Birdjag hire folks too, and FAL hires contractors. I've personally worked for a large staffing company, and now work as a corporate recruiter. I've interviewed hundreds of companies, finding out why they're hiring, why they aren't hiring, and who they'd want to hire. I read resumes, source possible candidates, and also do initial interviews. Personally, I typically work with blue-collar jobs and sales, although I have recently done some IT recruiting, and may do more soon. I can answer questions about those industries, interviews, resumes, networking, etc.

To open things up, how many of you guys use LinkedIn, or other professionally-centered social media sites? Have you ever been recruited from one? When you're looking for jobs, where do you look?

 

[GenMarshall]

I mainly use the shotgun method, just sending my application and resume to business in my area. Just throw a bunch of spaghetti and see what sticks.

I don't use LinkedIn nor any social media sites.

It's getting frustrating for me since I'm getting absolutely zero response from the places I sent my application and resume to!

I'm even desperate enough to be a janator just so I can have a job and sanity.

 

[RobAnybody]

downtown, I have a question about the method of hiring. I have a job, have had the same one for basically a decade, so I'm not asking for me. I'm asking more about the "theory of hiring" if such a thing exists.

I've seen our company shift from a "skills-based" focus to an "attitude-based" focus over several years, even pre-dating the current economic downturn, & I have to admit, a lot of the presently-employed workers at our company are not thrilled about it because we wind up working with people who have a "great attitude" but have poop for skills.

What's happened is that our hiring has shifted to asking an applicant about "a time they had to deal with adversity", "a time they felt they weren't given enough direction", "a time they exceeded expectations", "a time their boss wanted them to do something unethical", etc. (&, incidental to my question to downtown, I can provide more examples of these questions if job-seekers would like).

You'll note, of course, that none of these questions are along the lines of "what can you do?". I didn't leave them out by accident. Those just aren't the types of questions that are asked anymore at our company (the resume does help with this of course).

Do you have an opinion on 1) the merits of this process (which is my personal interest in asking the question), and/or 2) the prevalence of this process (which will be of interest to those seeking a job)? Personally, I ain't fer it, I'm agin it, but if it has become the norm, present job-seekers should know to bone up on such questions.

 

[Zelig]

To open things up, how many of you guys use LinkedIn, or other professionally-centered social media sites? Have you ever been recruited from one? When you're looking for jobs, where do you look?

I dislike the company linkedin enough and have good enough job prospects that I don't see any reason to use it.

Current job I'm working at I got from applying on the website of the company.

Majority of jobs I've had in the past were from knowing the right people.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

So we've had a few threads on unemployment and job creation, and we also have a bunch of posters between 16-25. Why not talk a little more about the mechanics of getting those newfangled job things, and what makes somebody "create" jobs.

I'm a recruiter. I know Whomp and Birdjag hire folks too, and FAL hires contractors. I've personally worked for a large staffing company, and now work as a corporate recruiter. I've interviewed hundreds of companies, finding out why they're hiring, why they aren't hiring, and who they'd want to hire. I read resumes, source possible candidates, and also do initial interviews. Personally, I typically work with blue-collar jobs and sales, although I have recently done some IT recruiting, and may do more soon. I can answer questions about those industries, interviews, resumes, networking, etc.

To open things up, how many of you guys use LinkedIn, or other professionally-centered social media sites? Have you ever been recruited from one? When you're looking for jobs, where do you look?

I met the person who just hired me on Linkedin.

I tried a staffing service for a few months, but all of the places they put me in contact with declined me, for various reasons. It was not the fault of the service.

When looking for a job, I've done everything from phone calls and walk-ins to classifieds and staffing services, as well as job-finding sites like USAJobs.

 

[Whomp]

This is an email exchange that I think might be helpful within this thread. My fiancee' is an executive at a firm that is the first contact for many potential candidates they might have at a number of companies. I will see if she'd be interested in responding in this thread. In fact, tonight she said she used our game "Civilization" as an example today in a call with a potential client. (Uncovering the darkness as you explore kind of thing.)

Anyhow, here's the exchange...

From: xxxx
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 5:35 PM
To: xxxx
Subject: RE: I have some questions from your talk to the U of A Alumni Assoc.

Hi xxx, Thanks for reaching out to me and welcome to the next step in your use of social media! There are many best practices and I’m sure that a google search will alert you to some good ideas. Below are a few of my thoughts on the subject:

- Yes, it will limit you. Today, LinkedIn is one of the first places people will look for you to learn more about your background and many recruiters use it exclusively to find talent. As you meet people, linking in to them is really just like today’s version of sharing business cards really, and makes it easy to keep in touch.

- Think of your profile as an online constantly live resume. That’s all it really is. Make sure it matches the paper resumes you hand out on interviews and that it is accurate. Share some detail about what you’ve done and what you’re interested it. look at several other profiles of people you know as soon as you get in to see what feels like you and feel free to mirror the style and level of detail.

- You should keep your connections well managed. I’m a bit of a purist. If I don’t actually know the person, I prefer not to accept their invitations. When I do meet someone, right after emailing my thank you note or “hey it was nice to meet you” message, I invite them to link with me and most accept. Getting into the routine makes it easy and you’ll be amazed at how quickly your network expands.

- There is a standard email that comes out to link in when you invite someone. In some situations you don’t even need to customize that message and people get it and are fine with it. if you’re trying to make a good impression with a potential business contact, use the field provided to customize the message. “Hi xxxx, it was nice meeting you at the U of A event last night. I’d like to add you to my network. xxxx” is all it needs, but reminds people of who you are.

- I deny requests if I don’t know the person or politely inquire about where we might have met, blaming my failing memory. Sometimes you learn that someone had a good reason to reach out and you can accept. You can always “unlink” from someone afterwards if you realize you don’t really know them.

- Check privacy settings and make sure you’re good with them. Keep some things private, make sure that your entire network is NOT updated on changes and new people you link with, things like that.

xxx, I hope that helps. And for what it is worth, I would not have found a LinkedIn request from you with a message through their system intrusive at all. We did meet, and you had a valid reason to reach outJ Things settle down for me a bit after the 19th of December but is an all out push until then. Feel free to give me a call and we can try to find time for coffee.
Thanks and good luck. Let me know how it goes. I’ll look forward to being one of your first connections on LinkedIn!

xxx

His email to her

From: xxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 5:00 PM
To: xxxx
Subject: I have some questions from your talk to the U of A Alumni Assoc.

Hi xxxx,

My name is xxxx, I attended the talk you gave to the University of Arizona Alumni Association in the Spring. I think I was the only person who did not raise their hand when you asked who was on LinkedIn and Facebook. At that time I had reasons to abstain from the social networks, but things have changed recently and I feel that my absence from LinkedIn may start to have a negative impact on my career. Before I create an account and show myself to the world I was wondering if there are any “best practices” that I should be following. If you have any tips for creating a professional profile and reconnecting with old colleagues that would be wonderful. Also, I would like to keep my connections fairly well managed. Is there proper etiquette for making connection requests? What about denying connection requests? These are just a few of my questions and I am sure there are many things that I haven’t even thought of yet. Any insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

I chose email because I thought it would be the least intrusive. If you can spare the time for a call or a coffee break that would be great, just let me know.

 

[illram]

I am responsible this year for hiring new interns for Spring and Summer and I do not check their social media pages. Perhaps I should?

I grudgingly use linkedin, and some other attorneys have prodded me to create an avvo account to rate them, but I myself am not much of an online networker type when it comes to that sort of thing. If I was on my own or job hunting though I would probably keep those up to date, like my "electronic resume" as alluded to above. In my profession it still seems that who you know and getting out there and having face time with people, i.e. old fashioned networking, is the name of the game.

I guess I would recommend not doing what I am doing though, which is being complacent with my networking and professional social media presence as I am gainfully employed. It's probably a good idea to keep that stuff up to date all the time and always keep your name out there, even if you're safely employed. I don't do that as much as I should beyond the professional contacts I get as a part of simply doing the job.

 

[Whomp]

Another example of how a young person has utilized media is I have a client who agreed to being featured in a magazine with me. Somewhere along the way she was contacted by the WSJ and they printed another article this week about her relationship with me. Now she is print by blog, magazine and WSJ. Not bad for a 26 year old.

 

[Elrohir]

This is an email exchange that I think might be helpful within this thread. My fiancee' is an executive at a firm that is the first contact for many potential candidates they might have at a number of companies. I will see if she'd be interested in responding in this thread. In fact, tonight she said she used our game "Civilization" as an example today in a call with a potential client. (Uncovering the darkness as you explore kind of thing.)

Anyhow, here's the exchange...

His email to her

Excellent post, thanks! It's inspired me to sign up for LinkedIn.

 

[JollyRoger]

I have to apply for jobs every day (aka, marketing my practice). So far, I have avoided social media (I think I set up a linkedein, but I never use it). Back when I was in the legitimate job hunt (roughly off and on from 1990 to 2003), I made heavy use of temp firms to get me either seasonal work (tax preparation and software testing) or get me in the door at any level so I could decide what job in the company I wanted in 6 months.

I don't hire for my practice because I can borrow all the support staff I need from my landlord-client, but if I were to hire (support staff), I would likely take a fairly unconventional route by pulling someone out of retail that seemed capable of growing into what I need. If I were to add another lawyer, I would take someone straight out of law school. My law school helps subsidize the salary for a time period. Probably get the young whippersnapper to help me get more up to speed on this ssocial networking nonsense.

 

[Archbob]

I hire freelancers all the time myself, spend $4k on month on freelance work. But these are temp. However, if you are efficient at work, can be a decent paycheck,

 

[pi-r8]

What kind of background checks do recruiters do on people to make sure they're telling the truth on their resume or linkin profile?

 

[squall78]

I have used a social networking site to find out who is where. Back in the good ol mortgage days (07-08) people shuffled around a lot between lenders and had I established a relationship would have found me a new job quick. I was the most junior employee so I didn't get a referral to a new job. My supervisors and partners of the company however did land jobs at banks in the area.

Nowadays my job searches are strictly craigslist and online. I'm not looking for a career, so it works out with the type of work (part time) that I'm looking for.

Question: Sorry to be a one track pony, but this is regarding my Guard status. If I was hired as a conditional hire, can I be let go for not being able to fulfill my attendance because of guard duty?

I am applying to be an FAA controller and enlisted recently. If I had orders to leave can my job say "well you're a conditional hire, and you can't be here so we're gonna let you go?" Controllers are generally conditional until they pass the academy, and get fully qualified at a facility which takes on average 2-3 years.

If you answer this I will vote you Eternal President and occupant of all future polls

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

Is there any way to stand out when applying for large firms that use designated hiring software (Taleo, for example)? Is it just specific keywords that they're looking for, or is it something more complex?

 

[downtown]

You'll note, of course, that none of these questions are along the lines of "what can you do?". I didn't leave them out by accident. Those just aren't the types of questions that are asked anymore at our company (the resume does help with this of course).

Do you have an opinion on 1) the merits of this process (which is my personal interest in asking the question), and/or 2) the prevalence of this process (which will be of interest to those seeking a job)? Personally, I ain't fer it, I'm agin it, but if it has become the norm, present job-seekers should know to bone up on such questions.

I've heard about this more and more as well, and I think how useful it is depends on the job. Before my applicants apply, they take a personality survey that asks a lot of those questions. There are certain competencies that can be taught, and there are some that you just flat out HAVE to be able to do when you walk in. If it's a sales job, I can see how those critical thinking/attitude/adversity questions can be pretty important. If I'm recruiting for a Java programmer, I know I typically don't have the time to teach a candidate Java...I need a guy who is ready to go off the bat. If I can use those kinds of questions to help determine which programmer is going to be the best fit with the team though, then we'll use those.

When I hired Mechanics, if they had a rare type of certification or experience, that was all I cared about. For my current applicants, the "softer" stuff is more important.

What kind of background checks do recruiters do on people to make sure they're telling the truth on their resume or linkin profile?

For me, the amount of background checking I do depends on two things.

1) The number of applicants I have for the job. If it's a part-time job in Chicago, I'm going to have a zillion applicants and I won't have the time. If it's for a programmer in rural Arizona, I'll have to be more picky.

2) The costs and risks associated with the hire. How replaceable is this guy? How long is it going to take to train him? How much could he eff up by himself? For a guy doing stats work for a very important client, I'll check out his references more carefully...since training him for the client specific work could take 3 months, and if he's bad, it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. For a part time data collector or an oil-change guy, I'll just do a criminal background check. If he sucks, I can prob replace him in 2 weeks without wasting a lot of money.

I run a driving record test and a multi-state criminal background check on everybody I offer a job to. If I don't like the results, I'll take back the job offer.

Question: Sorry to be a one track pony, but this is regarding my Guard status. If I was hired as a conditional hire, can I be let go for not being able to fulfill my attendance because of guard duty?

To be honest, I'm not actually sure. I'm curious though, since that question might pop up with me later this year. I'll ask my manager how that works on Monday.

Is there any way to stand out when applying for large firms that use designated hiring software (Taleo, for example)? Is it just specific keywords that they're looking for, or is it something more complex?

Use specific words from the job description. That text should have all the keywords you need.

 

[Crdnl Richelieu]

Here's a useful tip to cut down on the amount of CVs / résumés you need to wade through.

Chuck half of them in the bin! This way, you won't hire any unlucky applicants.

 

[squall78]

To be honest, I'm not actually sure. I'm curious though, since that question might pop up with me later this year. I'll ask my manager how that works on Monday.

I appreciate it. I know that they recently passed a law to provide tax benefits if employers hire veterans, but no mention of guard status. I would prefer to keep my ATC job without any conflict because it is something I plan to park my butt at for 25+ years.

 

[innonimatu]

Here's a useful tip to cut down on the amount of CVs / résumés you need to wade through.

Chuck half of them in the bin! This way, you won't hire any unlucky applicants.

You may be joking, but I've seen that done.

 

[GoodGame]

To open things up, how many of you guys use LinkedIn, or other professionally-centered social media sites? Have you ever been recruited from one? When you're looking for jobs, where do you look?

I post on LinkedIn and link it to Monster, but I don't do the bulk of my job searching through them. I have noticed that some companies that insist they have no jobs on their websites, do in fact post job notices on LinkedIn. I definitely don't use Facebook for anything other than joking around in a semi-anonymous way. I find that my best leads (ones that at least get me a pre-screen phone call) come from applying to advertised positions directly advertised. I'm finding that the large revenue companies are the only one's seriously looking to interview me, despite my trying to cold-call anyone in a directory.

My Questions: What do you specifically pay the most attention to on the resume to form an opinion about a candidate? How important is a cover letter to you? If a candidate shows up uninvited to do an in-person cold call, are you impressed or annoyed? Does that impress you relative to someone submitting resumes to specific advertised positions?

@SQUALL, check the regs/policies as I'm certain I've read a thing or two defending the jobs of national guard soldiers.

 

[dIZZyBlIZZy]

Our recruitment is pretty localized, but I used to handle the opening numbers for TDOC. I think they usually posted openings on Nashville help wanted and Monster and that's about it. NHW really does no good posting for facilities in Whiteville, or Memphis, or Clinton.

@Downtown - Do you have good leeway, or do companies have a tendency to force you to be more decisionless middle man in your work?