The Screwed Generation

[cardgame]

You know what else has been going down since the 70s?

And as we all know, the R stands for Rich just as much as it does for Republican.

 

[Lexicus]

Hey while we're posting infographics

 

[Tahuti]

Hey while we're posting infographics

So we should be seeing one big assault on Rikers Island soon. #LaBastille2017

 

[Hygro]

Well yes, that's an universal truth. People change in more or less similar ways as they grow older. But there are still some tenuous, fuzzy characteristics of each generation.

I strongly agree, but in my family those fuzzy characteristics seem to sync pretty nicely with the official generations. Also, everyone likes Harry Potter.

 

[innonimatu]

It's more complicated than that.

It is, there is a whole culture of greed that shows up as extraction of rents. Another example are the rents collected by pharmaceuticals, this is just one example. A series of companies bought the rights to an old and cheap drug, each paying a higher price than the previous, and increasing the price to users.

That price increase was not die to production costs (same technology), and certainly not either due to research (already done), regulatory (was already on sale), or even marketing (was already being consumed, in fact people sought it out without advertisement). It was due to greed. Greed by the sellers of the right to the drug who accepted the offers in the full knowledge that the new buyers would cover that "cost" by increasing rent extraction (prices to users). Greed by the buyers who did this deal with that plan in mind, and executed it regardless of the damage they caused to patients who used the drug.

But there was another necessary element in this: the state enforced the "rights" of the greedy. Without monopoly powers being granted and enforced, these companies could not get away with these schemes. It is the same in a large number of industries: big "capitalism" captures the state in order to create situations where it can achieve huge profit margins through rent extraction.

The sole way to prevent this is by denying that capture. It is not by suppressing the state (it reemerges...), it is by controlling it with common welfare in mind. If a state is a democracy then the voters must be aware of corruption when it happens (and they are), and kick out all and any politician who connives with these schemes (which most don't, currently). And the politicians must resist this kind of corruption. I can see that some do, so there are choices. Making voters the ones most at fault for tolerating corruption. They may have been cheated, they may have been induced to believe such corruption is "normal" (the widespread cynicism I criticize...). But it isn't, and there are plenty of examples in living memory of people fighting it, of corruption being checked, monopolies being broken, rents being stripped away from those who (by definition of economic rent) do not deserve them. The thing that must change is the cynicism of the people who are willing to tolerate corruption because it is being done by members of "their team", or because they feel "powerless" or "small" to make a difference.

 

[Hrothbern]

Relevant.

The condensed version: renters are worse off than they have ever been. In 2017 dollars:

1930s: Median rent $383
1940s: Median rent $314
1950s: Median rent $377
1960s: Median rent $456, Median renter income $34,150
1970s: Median rent $559, Median renter income $41,100
1980s: Median rent $608, Median renter income $35,000
1990s: Median rent $691, Median renter income $38,800
2000s: Median rent: $720, Median renter income $39,150
2010s: Median rent $784, Median renter income $33,600
2016: Median rent $851, Median renter income $37,900

Do you have similar trend figures for the price of newly build houses ?

Here in the Netherlands they keep on increasing, also because more and more luxury is applied as standard, also from regulations... far above the standards of the bulk of existing housing.
luxury that is increasing the price beyond what ordinary people can pay if there is only one income.
and are rock bottom not that much desired if it makes buying a house impossible

I get the impression it is an artificial thing to keep prices high of existing housing.

 

[ls612]

Do you have similar trend figures for the price of newly build houses ?

Here in the Netherlands they keep on increasing, also because more and more luxury is applied as standard, also from regulations... far above the standards of the bulk of existing housing.
luxury that is increasing the price beyond what ordinary people can pay if there is only one income.
and are rock bottom not that much desired if it makes buying a house impossible

I get the impression it is an artificial thing to keep prices high of existing housing.

I wouldn’t say it’s artificial, you are paying for results like this. https://www.usfa.fema.gov/data/statistics/

 

[innonimatu]

Do you have similar trend figures for the price of newly build houses ?

Here in the Netherlands they keep on increasing, also because more and more luxury is applied as standard, also from regulations... far above the standards of the bulk of existing housing.
luxury that is increasing the price beyond what ordinary people can pay if there is only one income.
and are rock bottom not that much desired if it makes buying a house impossible

I get the impression it is an artificial thing to keep prices high of existing housing.

I even get that impression from the way my city enacts zoning regulation. There is big money, quite a lot of potential profit, to be made from manipulating real estate markets...
And there are also the various "professional bodies" clamoring for more regulation that guarantees them a cut of that business. Around here an engineer is no longer enough to plan a family home, now an architect must also be paid off to place a signature in it. Energy efficiency numbers must be pulled out or a posterior by a qualified professional, another group that gets a cut. Renewable energies peddlers also got their cut enforced by law...
Sure a home according to all these regulations will be very well built, etc. But it is also way being the means of most of the population, meaning they will be forced to keep living in very old and increasingly derelict homes.

 

[Disgustipated]

I don't believe in some big evil conspiracy about capitalism and housing prices. The problem is simple. We have too much population and not enough land. Especially where I live. We are pretty much out of land to expand, the feds only give us a little bit at a time. And urban sprawl is a little more difficult for us since infrastructure like water is hard to come by in other areas, so everything is contained within the valley pretty much. But other cities are facing housing shortages as well, it's not just us.

The same people who advocate unlimited immigration are the same people who complain about housing prices. I think it's time to realize this country is vastly overcrowded. In fact, because of water shortages, no one should be allowed to move to the Western United States at all. That's just my opinion, but people really aren't taking the water shortage seriously and think the problem will just correct itself. Everything is so crowded compared to when I was a kid. 2 million compared to 200,000 when I was a kid.

I am against all immigration. I'm not ashamed to admit it either. Call me racist if you will, but I also feel all immigration from Europe needs to be restricted as well. Only critical job skills should be allowed in like doctors (which we are short of). And don't tell me we need Mexicans to pick our fruit, that is racist. My dad picked apples when he was young, white Americans can do these jobs, and should do these jobs.

The problem will only keep getting worse and worse as the population goes up.

 

[luiz]

I even get that impression from the way my city enacts zoning regulation. There is big money, quite a lot of potential profit, to be made from manipulating real estate markets...
And there are also the various "professional bodies" clamoring for more regulation that guarantees them a cut of that business. Around here an engineer is no longer enough to plan a family home, now an architect must also be paid off to place a signature in it. Energy efficiency numbers must be pulled out or a posterior by a qualified professional, another group that gets a cut. Renewable energies peddlers also got their cut enforced by law...
Sure a home according to all these regulations will be very well built, etc. But it is also way being the means of most of the population, meaning they will be forced to keep living in very old and increasingly derelict homes.

We need to reform and cut all this regulatory / bureaucratic red tape

 

[Hrothbern]

I don't believe in some big evil conspiracy about capitalism and housing prices. The problem is simple. We have too much population and not enough land. Especially where I live. We are pretty much out of land to expand, the feds only give us a little bit at a time. And urban sprawl is a little more difficult for us since infrastructure like water is hard to come by in other areas, so everything is contained within the valley pretty much. But other cities are facing housing shortages as well, it's not just us.

The same people who advocate unlimited immigration are the same people who complain about housing prices. I think it's time to realize this country is vastly overcrowded. In fact, because of water shortages, no one should be allowed to move to the Western United States at all. That's just my opinion, but people really aren't taking the water shortage seriously and think the problem will just correct itself. Everything is so crowded compared to when I was a kid. 2 million compared to 200,000 when I was a kid.

I am against all immigration. I'm not ashamed to admit it either. Call me racist if you will, but I also feel all immigration from Europe needs to be restricted as well. Only critical job skills should be allowed in like doctors (which we are short of). And don't tell me we need Mexicans to pick our fruit, that is racist. My dad picked apples when he was young, white Americans can do these jobs, and should do these jobs.

The problem will only keep getting worse and worse as the population goes up.

The planet is indeed getting overcrowded in the balance between a decent life---techs---resources.
The demographic socialcultural development of more single persons, more broken marriages-relations is going faster than housing policies have adapted to it..... or wanted to adapt to it.
housing is in my country by far the biggest chunk of private cost.

Did you ever play SimCity ?
growing your city (the equivalent of real life growing your GDP, prio #1)

The people governing us do play to some degree that game in real life
and allowing for building new housing below the market price of existing, would really upset the total economy, including the votes of the the citizens that own houses (and have bank loans !)
So even without evil purposes.... why would a government encourage cheaper housing ?

The governments want above all that annual GDP growth and that includes stability of the economy and voters.
And sitting in that SimCity armchair......
(just dust off that game and play it once more.... and you can notice, if you want to win-sustain, how fast you yourself take over that attitude of how to keep that population QUIET... to control COMPLAINING.... not getting it away... no, no... just give the people just enough to CONTROL the amount of complaints to your desired level)
sitting in that government armchair, you find out very fast, that in real life controlling housing prices is a real good control tool of your empire.
nothing really intrinsic evil...
just technocratic toolkit.

 

[metalhead]

But other cities are facing housing shortages as well, it's not just us.

You realize this is purely a function of housing policy and not a lack of space, right?

You don't need "Mexicans" to pick fruit, but you do need people willing to work long hours outside at a repetitive task. Americans are unwilling to do this, for the most part, for what farmers are willing/able to pay. Needing immigrants for those jobs indicates, surprise surprise, that the free market is an abject failure.

 

[Hrothbern]

You realize this is purely a function of housing policy and not a lack of space, right?

You don't need "Mexicans" to pick fruit, but you do need people willing to work long hours outside at a repetitive task. Americans are unwilling to do this, for the most part, for what farmers are willing/able to pay. Needing immigrants for those jobs indicates, surprise surprise, that the free market is an abject failure.

An angle to look at that is:

IF the tax paid by very cheap labor is lower than the average governmental cost of the cheap paid head incl an average family,
THEN the farmer is in effect a lossmaker for the government per head employed at a too low wage.

So that means fgor me that you have a choice as government:
Either you force those wages up.... by a law on minimum wage OR by reducing immigrant cheap labor.... in effect forcing higher prices of the goods that that farmer sells
OR you subsidise all the buyers of those farmers goods, getting them at too cheap prices,by paying as government for all kinds of govermental services to immigrants, paid by all taxpayers (that benefit from the cheaper goods)

IF you prefer as government to be as little as possible involved in "artificial" money flows (the US model... NOT the EU social security model).... then as a consequence you build a wall.

 

[Nexlev]

I'm a xennial (born at the end of gen-x), don't collect grievances. If you want to look at how we got so effed up and assign blame, at least apply it to individuals instead of demographic groups. Also at least recognize the adversities and hard times others have faced before us. Things are good compared to say the end of the 1800s

Baby Boomers lived in a different economy and had some things millenials haven't had access to. But Boomers who couldn't afford college were educated in Vietnam. Boomers had the safety net pulled out from them same as the rest of us as the world globalized.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The baby boomers locked in safety nets for themselves and then undermined them for everyone else.

Pensions are gone (deleted by Boomer corporate overlords) and it's been the Boomer political class that have been responsible for the push to dismantle social programs since they came into power.

 

[Nexlev]

Boomers were in their 30s when Reagan was in office

Pensions have been going or gone since long before that

Boomers elected the Clinton, Bush and Obama, but Gen X has been voting since at least Clinton's second term

Maybe in 30 years we can pretend that Millennials elected Trump all on their own

 

[metalhead]

I was bullish on our coming X and Millennial overlords until they wrecked San Francisco with typical selfish wealth-hording perfected by our Boomer elders.

 

[stinkubus]

The same people who advocate unlimited immigration are the same people who complain about housing prices. I think it's time to realize this country is vastly overcrowded. In fact, because of water shortages, no one should be allowed to move to the Western United States at all. That's just my opinion, but people really aren't taking the water shortage seriously and think the problem will just correct itself. Everything is so crowded compared to when I was a kid. 2 million compared to 200,000 when I was a kid.

I am against all immigration. I'm not ashamed to admit it either. Call me racist if you will, but I also feel all immigration from Europe needs to be restricted as well. Only critical job skills should be allowed in like doctors (which we are short of). And don't tell me we need Mexicans to pick our fruit, that is racist. My dad picked apples when he was young, white Americans can do these jobs, and should do these jobs.

The problem will only keep getting worse and worse as the population goes up.

The United States currently ranks 179th globally in population density.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

Almost the entire western half of the contiguous 48 states, apart from the coast, is empty space. If the country were so inclined every man, woman, and child could comfortably fit within the city limits of Jacksonville, FL. We are a far cry from overcrowded.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Regardless of who or what you blame for your current predicament, the question you should be asking is "Do I have the tools I will need to get out of whatever situation I am in?" And if not, "How do I get access to them?" It's those who cannot figure out a path forward towards what they want, that are in trouble. Will it be hard? Probably. Are you wiling to take on hard tasks? Willing to ask for help?

I redid my career at 34. I got out of teaching when Reagan began cutting federal education programs and went into business.

 

[metalhead]

If everyone with the intelligence and drive to forge other paths leaves teaching, where is that going to leave us?

Honestly, I can't think of a more apt illustration of the destructiveness of Boomers' "me first" attitude in the context of a failing capitalist system. People shouldn't have to choose between pursuing a worthwhile vocation and economic security. The fact that that is even a choice that has to be made means that the people who have shaped our society post-WWII have utterly failed.