Your Defenition of "the west"

[Sidhe]

I'm not understanding why there seems to be so much anger in this simple thread which seeks to define "the west". Why are we on edge?

We're always on edge, we have alot to answer for I'm sure TLC didn't mean it personally.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I'm not understanding why there seems to be so much anger in this simple thread which seeks to define "the west". Why are we on edge?

Especially since the term is meaningless anyway!

 

[The Last Conformist]

Actually, I'm on the edge right now because Bast made a reply to one of my posts that can only be explained by a failure to either read or understand it, and then proceeded to make nonsensical replies to my attempt at setting her straight. I'm in no mood to debate with someone who feigns not to realize that concepts, objects, and actors aren't equivalent categories.

 

[Bast]

Actually, I'm on the edge right now because Bast made a reply to one of my posts that can only be explained by a failure to either read or understand it, and then proceeded to make nonsensical replies to my attempt at setting her straight. I'm in no mood to debate with someone who feigns not to realize that concepts, objects, and actors aren't equivalent categories.

Please set me straight.

You said you can't blame the West for all ills or praising it for particular goods. I agree with this. But I also said, the point of this thread wasn't to determine whether it was good or bad but to define "the west". You said, you've defined it on the first page. So that's fine too. I can't see where we even debated, and I'm still failing to see why you should be on edge or angry.

 

[Dann]

Well, we are not Slavs, and we're not in the Caucasus, yet we are colored in cyan on that map.

Hehe... sorry. Not really that familiar with all the cultural intricacies of Eastern Europe. But I was right that you have always been hemmed between the West and Russia no?

 

[Souron]

I would agree with Dann's definition of the west.

I don't consider Japan part of the west, because they are just too culturally different. I guess I would put it in it's own group, on equal standing to the West.

I don't consider Isreal part of the west because they have the muslim conflict that sets them aside from western nations. I would consider it very westernised, However.

 

[blackheart]

Numenoreans

 

[Peri]

? What is your modern day defenition of "the west" ?

I think that this phrase is thrown around way to much by conservitives, So I'll throw in my defenition - and hope everyone else does too.

I would argue that is a relic of the Cold War and is no longer relevant to the modern world. Perhaps you hear so many conservatives use the word because they miss the Cold War?

 

[twansalem]

To me the term "The West" refers to the western part of the U.S., basically from the Rockies to the Pacific Coast.

The term that comes to my mind for the general definitions given in previous posts is "Western Civilization."

I'm not saying that either one is correct, just stating what pops into my mind when I hear the words "The West."

 

[Mirc]

Hehe... sorry. Not really that familiar with all the cultural intricacies of Eastern Europe. But I was right that you have always been hemmed between the West and Russia no?

No problem. And yes you were right about being hammered between the West and Russia.

Actually, it's not difficult to make a mistake when speaking about this area, as the Balkan area is one of the most mixed areas in the world. Romania is actually outside the geographical area of the Balkans but still somewhat related culturally.

If you are interested in an advanced analysis of the populations from the Balkans, you can look here:

Spoiler :

Here in the Balkans the most important groups are:

Slavs (the majority, most of the population of ex-Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and some minorities from other countries, divided in proto-Serbs and Bulgarians),
Greeks (in Greece and some in Istanbul),
Turks (which are non-indo-europeans, living in Turkey, some in Bosnia and some - very little though - in the Romanian region of Dobrogrea, the only one that was fully conquered by the Ottomas),
Hungarians (which are different than them, but still non-indoeuropean, though the Magyar population was somewhat assimilated by the slavs and other surrounding poeple, so they can be considered European in culture and in maybe even in ethnicity),
Latins (Romania and about 80% of Moldavia, related in language, traditions and somewhat ethnicity to Italians and sometimes even to Spanish; very interesting how the Latin heritage was kept after 1000 years of being surrounded by slavs, hungarians and turks),
Romany people (gypsies, population that migrated from northern India to various parts from Europe, like Romania, Hungary and Spain),
People with mixed or uncertain origin, like Albanians or Aromanians.

So yeah it's really easy to make a mistake here, with about 10 different ethnicities concentrated in such an area!

 

[CaptainF]

I define it as the United States, Canada, the European Union, Australia, New Zealand.

I don't really consider South America or Japan or South Korea as part of the West.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I define it as the United States, Canada, the European Union, Australia, New Zealand.

I don't really consider South America or Japan or South Korea as part of the West.

Neither Norway and Switzerland, it would appear.

 

[Kyriakos]

Anything sufficiently related to greek&roman antiquity, either from lack of a substitute of its own, or from systematic prefference for them, can be thought of as "western".

The north of Europe is also part of the west though, due to clear connections with the rest of the countries who in late medieval times became in name (and also in spirit) successors of ancient Greece & Rome (as for example in the rebirth of the sciences, and their evolution).

In that respect the arabic world had its own connections with the west, before its decadence, caused also by the rise of western Europe.

 

[CaptainF]

Neither Norway and Switzerland, it would appear.

Well, to be honest I said the European Union because I was too lazy to name the individual European countries.

But yes, those would definetly be part of the West.

 

[Winner]

Culturally speaking, West is defined by:

1) Religion (what's now called the West used to be called the Western Christendom - Catholicism and Protestantism, without Orthodox Church)

2) Classical tradition of thought (originating in ancient Greece)

3) Individualism - more than in any other civilization, Western people place their interests above the interests of society

4) Representation - the Western civilization has a long tradition of representative institutions

5) Separation of the Church and the State - Church has never had a complete authority over the earthly matters

6) Rule of Law - since ancient Rome, there have been laws all people should observe, even the rulers

7) Pluralistic society

8) European languages

In this respect, I'll stick to the Huntington's map, with exceptions, of course.

EDIT: I think Huntington made the West too exclusive. Eastern Orthodox and Latin American civilizations are, compared to the others, still very close to the West. The question is if they're moving closer, or farther.

 

[Kyriakos]

I know that movie, "cultural teachings of Huntington to make benefit glorius nation of Czechistan"

In reality it is not so simple to examine a nation, and even less easy to examine individuals and cultural trends, categories, movements etc.

 

[amadeus]

Go Philippines!

 

[Winner]

Not really just asking you to learn about history, ...

Still, I somehow fail to see why should only the West be blamed for imperialism (whatever definition we use).

Almost every civilization, at some point in its history, built an empire. Almost any of them attacked and conquered other lands.

China had an empire while Europeans were still climbing trees (exagerration, in case you wanted to play stupid). Muslims conquered almost entire civilized world east of China in few centuries. Mongols conquered almost entire Asia and killed about as many people as Hitler.

So why is that I only hear about how evil white racist European imperialists invented imperialism and imposed their bloody tyranny on the rest of the World?

Pure hypocrisy to me.

 

[Masquerouge]

So why is that I only hear about how evil white racist European imperialists invented imperialism and imposed their bloody tyranny on the rest of the World?

Pure hypocrisy to me.

I'd rather say bad timing.

 

[Winner]

I know that movie, "cultural teachings of Huntington to make benefit glorius nation of Czechistan"

Funny.

In reality it is not so simple to examine a nation, and even less easy to examine individuals and cultural trends, categories, movements etc.

Nobody says it is easy or simple.

Rather than trying to make jokes about it, you should stop questioning my motives and actually think about what I am saying. It would be much better.