Your Defenition of "the west"

[BirraImperial]

It has nothing to do with being white, it has to do with the fact that your average man on the street in Latin America sees the West as his enemy, conqueror, and oppressor. Hence the popularity of figures like Hugo Chavez throughout the region.

Ok so I admit there is a left wing movement gaining momentum in some countries, but it's not true that the average Latin American sees the US as opressors, most people have a favorable view. Of course most of us disagree with your idiotic foreign policy (specially since Bush took power), and this is affecting the preception most people have on your country, not only here in Latin America, but all over the World as well. Most people (at least outside Venezuela) think Chavez is an idiot. Perhaps only left wingers (often young university students) think otherwise.

 

[Elta]

Ok so I admit there is a left wing movement gaining momentum in some countries, but it's not true that the average Latin American sees the US as opressors, most people have a favorable view. Of course most of us disagree with your idiotic foreign policy (specially since Bush took power), and this is affecting the preception most people have on your country, not only here in Latin America, but all over the World as well. Most people (at least outside Venezuela) think Chavez is an idiot. Perhaps only left wingers (often young university students) think otherwise.

I couldn't have put it better myself

 

[Rossiya]

The "west" is the part of the world that doesn't listen to the poor Muslims of the Taliban and all their other social clubs.

 

[Mirc]

Mongolia?

 

[Dann]

Well do you have at least three of the folowing?
Gangsta Rap, Macdonalds, Wal-Mart, and Hollywood films?

If so welcome to da' club!

Gangsta Rap - no, thank heavens
McDonald's - yes
Wal-Mart - yes
Hollywood films - yes, subtitled or dubbed

Hey whaddaya know, China is part of the West.

 

[Winner]

So many of you think that Latin America is not part of the west because we are poor? Most of our nations have western-style democracies, listen to western world music, watch western tv-shows, etc. So what exactly is a western nation to you?

That very shallow understanding of Western culture.

Personally, I think Latin America should count as a part of the Western civilization, because it is not as different from Spain or Portugal, as some Americans (including Huntington) think.

 

[Winner]

Gangsta Rap - no, thank heavens
McDonald's - yes
Wal-Mart - yes
Hollywood films - yes, subtitled or dubbed

Hey whaddaya know, China is part of the West.

Democracy - no, thanks too, I suppose

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Why would they? Bush pushes farm subsidys, talks about how important they are and how much he loves his ranch - when the fact of the matter is his family hasn't worker on a farm in the 185 years his family has been in America.

The same with the grass skirt stuff, they are trying to look good for the "commen man". ATM I have some Bolivians living in my house, they seem pretty normal to me *shrug*

Right. As I said, the common man in Latin America identifies with the pre Columbian past, not the West. So we agree then.

Ok so I admit there is a left wing movement gaining momentum in some countries, but it's not true that the average Latin American sees the US as opressors, most people have a favorable view. Of course most of us disagree with your idiotic foreign policy (specially since Bush took power), and this is affecting the preception most people have on your country, not only here in Latin America, but all over the World as well. Most people (at least outside Venezuela) think Chavez is an idiot. Perhaps only left wingers (often young university students) think otherwise.

My statements here have nothing to do with Leftist politics, or George Bush. What Ive said is very simple, maybe I can spell it out a little more clearly: The man on the street in Latin America (Im not talking about the rich, educated 1% of the population which does identify with the West. Im talking about the real Latin America, or the other 99% of the population) does not feel like part of Western civilization. On the contrary, he feels like his country, his people are eternal victims of the West. They see themselves as acted upon by the West, not of the West. Im of 'Hispanic' heritage. Ive known, lived and worked with Hispanics from all over Latin America, all of my life. If you see things differently, for whatever reason, its no biggy.

 

[Dann]

Democracy - no, thanks too, I suppose

Umm.... not really.

It would be desirable yes, but not just yet.

It's a bit like dessert. You want and crave it, but only after you're finished with your steak.

 

[Winner]

Umm.... not really.

It would be desirable yes, but not just yet.

It's a bit like dessert. You want and crave it, but only after you're finished with your steak.

It is off-topic, but do you think that China will become a real democracy in the foreseeable future?

 

[Dann]

It is inevitable.

But political changes happen veeeeery sloooooowly in China. You and I would not live that long as to see it happen/slowly evolve into existence with our own eyes.

 

[BirraImperial]

My statements here have nothing to do with Leftist politics, or George Bush. What Ive said is very simple, maybe I can spell it out a little more clearly: The man on the street in Latin America (Im not talking about the rich, educated 1% of the population which does identify with the West. Im talking about the real Latin America, or the other 99% of the population) does not feel like part of Western civilization. On the contrary, he feels like his country, his people are eternal victims of the West. They see themselves as acted upon by the West, not of the West. Im of 'Hispanic' heritage. Ive known, lived and worked with Hispanics from all over Latin America, all of my life. If you see things differently, for whatever reason, its no biggy.

As I said before, that's not true. I don't know where you get those numbers, but most Latin Americans don't hate the west because...we are part of it. As Winner said, we have Spanish heritage. I'm not rich either (God I wish I was but no). Of course there are people that might not feel part of the west, but again, it's not 99 per cent.

 

[Winner]

My statements here have nothing to do with Leftist politics, or George Bush. What Ive said is very simple, maybe I can spell it out a little more clearly: The man on the street in Latin America (Im not talking about the rich, educated 1% of the population which does identify with the West. Im talking about the real Latin America, or the other 99% of the population) does not feel like part of Western civilization. On the contrary, he feels like his country, his people are eternal victims of the West. They see themselves as acted upon by the West, not of the West. Im of 'Hispanic' heritage. Ive known, lived and worked with Hispanics from all over Latin America, all of my life. If you see things differently, for whatever reason, its no biggy.

I am not sure it matters, or more precisely, that attitude of the people is enough to disqualify it from the West.

Some USAmericans also maintain they have nothing to do with Europe and feel offended, when I say they're in fact Europeans.

I guess the "anti-Western" feelings have more to do with their social status. Once they get richer, they'll find they have a lot in common with the West than they thought.

 

[Kyriakos]

I do not find to be accurate. A white gang in NY or other US towns, made from teenagers who could not care less (or indeed know less) of anything related in any way to high culture or science, does not in my view have more in common with such a "West" than the analogous black or asian gang. Likewise the czech, french, german etc serfs in the late medieval times were pretty much slaves and not much more, and they had not much in common with any of the values today related with the west either. Compared to a citizents in an ancient greek polis they would rank as second-class barely over the status of a slave, people.

No one will ever get to know even a small fraction of anything interesting (to him) that is to be found in human society, arts, sciences etc. To be of the view that somehow you express the "west" means little more than wishfull thinking; you have in essence manufactured a chimeric west, and then moved on to self-grant yourself the status of part of it. That is like giving charity from your one hand to the other

 

[TheBladeRoden]

Gangsta Rap - no, thank heavens
McDonald's - yes
Wal-Mart - yes
Hollywood films - yes, subtitled or dubbed

Hey whaddaya know, China is part of the West.

Have you seen Backstroke of the West?

 

[Phlegmak]

I've seen very little of this thread. I noticed that some people are thinking Latin America isn't Western.

Latin America is part of the west. The culture there is based on European and American cultures. It's not Islamic, totalitarian, or Hindu. It's mostly not communistic. There are no monarchies either.

Most of Latin American nations are republics respecting human rights (generally). Peru, my wife's home country, is fully westernized. They don't have the powerful economy of a European nation, but information flows freely there, human rights are respected (mostly), the economy is capitalistic, and the government is a republic.

rmsharpe's map in the first page of this thread is wholly inaccurate. Also, he incorrectly labeled South Africa as nonwestern. I can understand that though, since he's a fanboy of apartheid.

 

[REDY]

I see that some of you realy feel it emotional...
For me its useless define it. Wheres open society, free speech and democracy, theres radioactive monkey happy

 

[Mirc]

I've seen very little of this thread. I noticed that some people are thinking Latin America isn't Western.

Latin America is part of the west. The culture there is based on European and American cultures. It's not Islamic, totalitarian, or Hindu. It's mostly not communistic. There are no monarchies either.

Most of Latin American nations are republics respecting human rights (generally). Peru, my wife's home country, is fully westernized. They don't have the powerful economy of a European nation, but information flows freely there, human rights are respected (mostly), the economy is capitalistic, and the government is a republic.

rmsharpe's map in the first page of this thread is wholly inaccurate. Also, he incorrectly labeled South Africa as nonwestern. I can understand that though, since he's a fanboy of apartheid.

I agree with you, but why would monarchies be something non-western?

 

[Phlegmak]

I agree with you, but why would monarchies be something non-western?

I'm talking about absolute monarchs, which is just another word for dictator.

 

[Elta]

As I said before, that's not true. I don't know where you get those numbers, but most Latin Americans don't hate the west because...we are part of it. As Winner said, we have Spanish heritage. I'm not rich either (God I wish I was but no). Of course there are people that might not feel part of the west, but again, it's not 99 per cent.

QFT

Poor and western are not the same thing.

P.S. on PBS right now they are airing a program called "the west" I think some of you may like it.