Zero day DLC = disrespecting the customer
- Thread starter phungus420
- Start date
It's legal. It's part of a legitimate business transaction entered freely by two parties. It's also a cheap money grab and it betrays the unspoken, traditional agreement between game maker and game player that the game maker will make the best product they possibly can for one fair price. Those involved with the creation of Civ V have every legal right to do this, but I must admit they lost some goodwill on my part when they went this route. It's kind of insulting and it shows that the game is only a means toward obtaining profit which, when you sell art, feelings and experiences for a living, is a problem. The games industry has become so very nasty lately =( The more it grows and evolves the more disreputable and anti-consumer the tactics become.
Remember the fate of "Spore?"
Remember the fate of "Spore?"
I smashed my copy of spore
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
Brad Wardell has nothing to do with civ5 though, and besides that it is not true.
I pirated games in the past, including GalCivII from Stardock. I liked it very much and bought it. Also I got Settlers IV after pirating it, Warcraft3, Pirates! (yes really
) and GTA: San Andreas. Some games I did not get after pirating were STalker shadow of Chernobyl because it was too buggy to handle and the temple of elemental evil - same.I do it with music too. I buy the stuff I like and in order to get a feel for that you need to listen to stuff. SOme music gets better and better the more you hear it, so you need to really listen to know. The stuff I downloaded that I do not like maybe get's listened to once, and often not even the entire album. Those are the traks that I would not have bought anyway. If I do like it, then I buy it.
Your statements cannot hold, obviously.
phungus420
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 6,296
Thank you, and exactly. It is legal, it is allowed. One thing I hadn't really thought about before were the people who are super fans, and want to show their super fanhood, and if they pay $10 more dollars then the average person would pay for Firaxisn's next game, then they earn a new civ and a new leader; a super special locked leader; to play the game with. I can kinda see that too, I mean it flows with the special collector edition version so well.
I hear that perspective, and it was one I was not realizing existed.
jasonjay77
Chieftain
After reading everything here I think that I will have to take a long hard look at this game before I truly commit to buying it. I'm not surprised by the greed that is demonstrated by this, however it does raise concerns about the games depth and quality. I mean, if they are willing to do this kind of BS then what else are they trying to pull. I've been a real fool in the past when it came to buying games. I was enticed by the promise of depth and ability's in the games but after I bought it and played it I realized that it was simply the same old crap. They take crap and cover it with chocolate icing and they seem to think ppl won't notice that they are eating crap?! I'm now quite gun shy over the gaming industry and the persons most responsible for this is Will Wright and Sid.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
You mean the CEO's and exec's of other gaming companies that deal with the issue themselves statements cannot hold, obviously.
If the majority of pirates get the games for free, then the majority of those games are not purchased. This is common sense. To say otherwise is absurd.
Brad of Stardock was correct in his statement.
--------------
Anyways, I am just bringing voice about these things for the poor people that have no internet and have no voice.
Perhaps 2K Liz can tell us if the Civ 5 game will have a warning that Internet is required for installation and updates on it. At least then, I will give props to Firaxis, and 2K for letting people know ahead of time. (And sorry 2k liz for my last statement, it should have been directed towards Valve).
Then they can make an informed decision if they do not have internet. And they won't be out $50 for nothing. After all, the global economic meltdown underway will have people getting rid of things like internet and gym memberships to save money, so it is a valid point and question.
And for the poor helpless souls with computers and $50, but no internet... I wish you the best in your Civ 5 attempted endeavours!
(Steam is Internet Profiling! Almost as bad as Racial Profiling!) Which is Not-
But I still can't wait to play the game, even if it all makes my computer explode.
player1 fanatic
Fanatic
True, this could be an issue for someone, if his only ISP service is an dial-up (poor people, or people that live in areas without good internet coverage). This could also be an issue in non-US countries this game plans to sell to.
Activating game won't be problem, but forced patching through machine that has game installed will. Instead being able to get patches separately (for example from another computer with good bandwidth), and installing them later on game computer, you get forced to update in order to play, and machine will have too slow bandwidth to do so.
This is a no issue for MMO games, where you actually need good bandwidth all the time, to be able to play properly. There it makes sense to get updates directly on gaming PC. You won't buy such game without good bandwidth anyway. On the other hand, Civilizations is pretty good SP game.
Activating game won't be problem, but forced patching through machine that has game installed will. Instead being able to get patches separately (for example from another computer with good bandwidth), and installing them later on game computer, you get forced to update in order to play, and machine will have too slow bandwidth to do so.
This is a no issue for MMO games, where you actually need good bandwidth all the time, to be able to play properly. There it makes sense to get updates directly on gaming PC. You won't buy such game without good bandwidth anyway. On the other hand, Civilizations is pretty good SP game.
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
I used to pirate in order to see what I would buy. Others may be like me, but for the majority you are probably correct.
How valiant of you. You of course know the opinions of these people? And not only that, but you are send here as a representative, right?
A lot of the people who do not have internet are probably not gamers anyway. Anyway I feel no sympathy for those people, they can make it so that you get internet or suck it up.
On a side-note, do you also voice the opinions of those who want a HDtv but can't? I think you really should. Some of them might not have internet. Go get them, tiger!
Consumers really need to do some research before buying, and these things are always on the box. Firaxis or 2k are not a bunch of amateurs. They deserve no props for this or anything, it is just letting people know what to expect because that is the very least they should do.
For the rest of the post you have actually lost it, so I will not reply to that.
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
I'm like Robin Hood... looking out for the poor and helpless.
The rest of my post was the best part!
I want to hear what you have to say!Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
People who got rid of their internet to save money probably will not get civ5 as soon as it is available. You basically say that people who cannot afford to have certain luxuries need to be able to play civ5 too, or at least that their opinions should be heard. It seems absurd to me that you bring it up, since those people are obviously not the target audience for civ5. It is like saying that unemployed people should be heard by large complanies when they consider cutting one paid vacation day in the entire company.Then they can make an informed decision if they do not have internet. And they won't be out $50 for nothing. After all, the global economic meltdown underway will have people getting rid of things like internet and gym memberships to save money, so it is a valid point and question.
And for the poor helpless souls with computers and $50, but no internet... I wish you the best in your Civ 5 attempted endeavours!
(Steam is Internet Profiling! Almost as bad as Racial Profiling!) Which is Not-
But I still can't wait to play the game, even if it all makes my computer explode.
In bold, you have a very very strong statement there. Racial-profiling might mean something very different to me than it means to you, so I may be on slippery grounds here. To me it means profiling based on race in order to exclude people from certain rights like free speech and health-care and such - or at least profiling based on race in order to make discrimination possible for no good reason. . That in term implies that discrimination can indeed have a good purpose, which is indeed accepted as a valid point of view in the legal world. Racial profiling brings WWII images and practises come to my mind. Steam otoh does not discriminate any more than a gym membership card does, or that a movie-ticket does.
Good that you still get the game.
I reckon it will be in the fine print near the system specs: "Internet connection required".
One anecdote: The box for TF2, a game which requires Steam and an internet connection, does not mention anywhere on the box that it requires Steam nor that it requires an internet connection. It also does not make any mention of where the EULA can be found e.g. a website.
Shurdus, I am guessing you live in a place where internet connections are fairly cheap e.g. America.
I can tell you for sure that in many parts of the world it is much more of a luxury to have an internet connection than it is to be a casual gamer. A lot of console gamers probably don't have an internet connection either. A lot of people get by using their internet at work for facebook, emails etc.
By making an internet connection required, it's true there won't be many lost customers, but it's definitely excluding a lot more of the casual crowd i.e. the people who the marketing is mostly for. Then again, I'm guessing this time round a lot of the marketing is aimed at the Steam gamers so there will be gains there. The target audience is shifting a bit in other words.
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
Having an internet connection might be relatively cheap here, I do not know that. I pay 20 euro's/month for my internet.
It is actually of little concern who is and who is not excluded from civ5. Anyone who is excluded can lookout to other games, right? It is sad that civ5 will not be for everyone equally, but that is how it is. Still, anyone really making an effort could probably still get steam and patches by transporting the pc, then running steam in offline mode at home. It is a hassle and people can see for themselves if they want this.
I am amazed that the TF2 box does not say that internet is required to play... That is just... wow. Harsh, and not very professional in not telling gamers what to expect. Then again it is probably marketed as a multiplayer game so at least they would hint at a required connection, but I still think it unprofessional to not tell the gamers what is needed for a game.
Indeed, in the middle of the back cover it said:
"Absolutely the BEST MULTIPLAYER experience of the year." -Gamespy
so I kinda knew it required internet.
Still, at the time I think I didn't know it required Steam, so it was a learning experience.
"Absolutely the BEST MULTIPLAYER experience of the year." -Gamespy
so I kinda knew it required internet.
Still, at the time I think I didn't know it required Steam, so it was a learning experience.
Midnight-Blue766
The filidh that cam frae Skye
Am I a bad person for willing to spend to extra dollars on the Babylon and the Cradle of Civilization map?
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
No, Firaxis give you the option to buy that and you choose to do so. You are not required in any way, shape or form to show any loyalty whatsoever to a few mopy people here on these boards. If you want to buy the onus edition, then go nuts.
It's like the cool teenager game industry is growing up into an evil adult like the MPAA and RIAA!
Nope, just a sucker
tom2050
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2005
- Messages
- 5,516
Just remember, you are spending 1/5th the cost of the full game for an absolute tiny amount of content. That content will probably be made available later anyways.
But, I don't blame you for wanting it, I would buy it myself, but prefer a tangible product (and therefore I am being profiled, targeted, and punished as a customer for wanting an actual product).
