—I hate what Fox News has done to almost everyone in my family

[H4run]

You can look at Italian and think "Italian". You can look at me and think "Russian". You can look at Black or Asian and think "Black" or "Asian". What's wrong with that?

I don't know what's special about Italian "line of thought", I'm just able to distinguish black and white people by their appearance.

I miss understand your first argument, I thought you categorized Italian as being "look and think" Italian. Nevertheless as I state previously even to categorize race by physical appearance are quite shallow to define. For instance the Brazilian skin getting paler by time, are they the same race as they were back then? or they are currently marching toward the European race?

Does it make me a Nazi?

Unless you don't realize I use that to make a point that race was never referred to physical appearance before, but it was referred to language and nation (culture), the Nazi is the one who actually popularized the concept of race categorized by physical attributes, that's a reality, however if you reject my argument by putting the word to my mouth as if I accused you being Nazi, that's a straw-man right there.

 

[El_Machinae]

Could you do a test setup that can verify the existence and impact of microaggressions? Some kind of a blind test?

Yes. Geez, it is super-similar to detecting racism. We can distinguish implicit and explicit racism.

Honestly, I think you're so deep into thinking they don't exist that you cannot understand in real time. Like, you've made up your mind. You're literally going to have to go through a dissonance process.

I don't think they're a hurdle that will never go away. They're part of the blowback.

 

[H4run]

Is that an argument against genetics? It seems that, thanks to genetics, the Turks learned something they wouldn't have otherwise known. They may not like it, but such is reality.

You miss the point, my point was the Turk referred themselves as a true Turk because their language and their culture are similar, some proud Turkish nationalist try to trace their dna ancestor because they want to know how "Turk" they are, surprisingly finding the reality that some of them are actually close to Armenian. This can be also happened to you, maybe you referred yourselves as a Finish, and think that you are different than the Russian, who knows actually you have a dominant Russian DNA. Hence the only real thing that you used to distinguish yourself, is not your physical appearance, nor your dna, it is actually the language and the culture of the region that you live now.

There are mixed race people. This is not controversial. Nor is it an argument against the existence of races (in fact, it's an argument in favor of it, but that's a whole another can of worms).

in what sense is helping us? like the Turk is more Greek than being a Turkmen? lol And the possibility that your ancestor is an immigrant that mixed with so many combination of race until it goes down to you, yet you think you are genetically defined as Finn?

 

[red_elk]

For instance the Brazilian skin getting paler by time, are they the same race as they were back then? or they are currently marching toward the European race?

Most of Brazilians are whites, there are also blacks and Native Americans. They are getting intermixed gradually.

Unless you don't realize I use that to make a point that race was never referred to physical appearance before, but it was referred to language and nation (culture)

Interesting. So, when people were talking about European race in 19-th century, what language and nation they were referring to?
There are dozens of different cultures in Europe.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Oh, well if its just your "opinion" that races exist and you don't feel the need to actually justify it or quantify/define it in a useful manner, then your opinion is a stupid one.

What is it with you people and your continual dishonesty and misrepresentation.

The part I labelled as "opinion" was this:

"race" is as good a label as any to apply to this phenomenon.

Which is quite clearly an opinion and therefore cannot be labelled "not true". This followed on from:

Rather than just, you know, recognising that there are obvious actual genetic differences between disparate groups of people

Which is a factual claim and therefore can be labelled "not true". Except that it clearly is true and you would have to be insane to claim that it wasn't.

 

[warpus]

My dad has also been brainwashed by right-wing media.

We now have a rule at dinner time - discussing politics is not allowed. Or else my mom tells us to shut up.

 

[Senethro]

Which is a factual claim and therefore can be labelled "not true". Except that it clearly is true and you would have to be insane to claim that it wasn't.

Manfred, you are the liar. Your lies are all the more cowardly for being lies of omission.

If you have a working definition of race, then count how many races there are. Spoiler for the readers: He can't and he won't.

Nearly all humans have genetic differences from each other, whether we look between individuals or groups. This is obviously true, but it doesn't mean what you think it means! You can make the groups out of any aspect of the genotype/phenotype and they come out different. The groups are pretty much arbitrary and do not reflect the superficially phenotypic observation that ignorant people refer to as race.

Moderator Action: No name-calling, please. - Bootstoots
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Berzerker]

I'll see your dishonesty and cowardice and raise hypocrisy

 

[red_elk]

I guess the fuss about biological races is caused by the fact that the differences were and are used as the reason for discrimination.

In fact, they should be treated merely like difference between hair or eye color.
Do people differ by eye colors? Yes.
Is this difference biological by nature? Yes.
Does it mean some eye colors are "superior"? No.
Can we count how many eye colors there are? Probably not.

 

[Berzerker]

what if people prefer blue eyed blondes?

or you need dark eyes to see well under a bright sun?

 

[Senethro]

Alternative comparison: You can't count how many breeds of dog there are by doing genetic studies. You have to go to some national dog breeds association and ask them how many of their socially constructed categories they record.

It is easily understood that dog breeds are socially constructed, given that different societies disagree on breed numbers and standards. However it is not understood by humans with emotional/ideological baggage that races are socially constructed categories. They want them to be real.

 

[rah]

Aren't we all mongrels. I doubt there are any pure breeds since we don't inbreed. (except in Tennessee of course)

 

[red_elk]

Alternative comparison: You can't count how many breeds of dog there are by doing genetic studies. You have to go to some national dog breeds association and ask them how many of their socially constructed categories they record.

It is easily understood that dog breeds are socially constructed, given that different societies disagree on breed numbers and standards. However it is not understood by humans with emotional/ideological baggage that races are socially constructed categories. They want them to be real.

Well, breeds of dogs are socially constructed categories and they are also real. As real as eye or skin colors.

what if people prefer blue eyed blondes?

Obviously the answer would depend whether it's a preference for personal relationships or for position of senior manager.

 

[Senethro]

Aren't we all mongrels. I doubt there are any pure breeds since we don't inbreed. (except in Tennessee of course)

Tell that to the racists, who think that half-black makes you all black. White people never reckon mixed race people with one white parent as being half-white. Its always half-other.

 

[rah]

I bet most of them are at least 1/256th back from the old days when their relatives were screwing the help.

 

[Bootstoots]

Moderator Action: Dumpster fire extinguished.