2019 Christmas Thread

[Birdjaguar]

That's why I essentially think gift giving between me and my wife is stupid. We only have joint accounts, so I'm basically telling her to buy me stuff I would just buy anyway and I get annoyed when she buys something I wasn't going to buy myself cus I don't want to spend the money. But she likes the thought that goes into gift giving so I do it begrudgingly to make her happy.

Happy wife, happy life.
We give "HINTS" but I like to buy a couple of items that will surprise her.
She does also. So we get the best of both worlds.

Yes, we have given up any thought to trying to buy for each other besides small things. My wife buys what she wants and and if she doesn't need it right away, I wrap it for Christmas. She looks at my worn out slippers and suggests a replacement pair; I agree and she buys them to wrap. We are past actually "needing" much stuff and are not big into shopping to shop. This year we gave each other a trip to St. Louis for our granddaughter's birthday. Her's included a three week stay and trip back on the train. Mine 4 days with flying each way.

 

[Takhisis]

Happy wife, happy life.

‘Yes, dear.’
‘You're right, dear.’
The man always gets the last word.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I received a Christmas card signed by a couple of dozen of the home care nurses who have been helping me this year since my hospitalization and surgeries. That was nice of them.

 

[rah]

How's 105 and eye-stinging bushfire smoke sound

I only have one word for that . FORE

 

[rah]

Not for his future wife ...

Times were a little different 30 years ago. My wife insisted. At that point I would have agreed to almost anything so she would marry me.

 

[MaryKB]

Times were a little different 30 years ago. My wife insisted. At that point I would have agreed to almost anything so she would marry me.

Oh yes, I totally get you it used to be customary (but still wrong), but asking her father for "permission" today is just ... gross. It's as bad as her father "giving away the bride."

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh yes, I totally get you it used to be customary (but still wrong), but asking her father for "permission" today is just ... gross. It's as bad as her father "giving away the bride."

I get where you are coming from but I think this situation is entirely too personal to paint with a broad brush. Some people will do it out of custom, some do it because they like the in-laws and want to share the good news by way of asking, some think it is the right thing to do and don't see it as an affront to feminism, etc.

I didn't ask for permission, fwiw

 

[Broken_Erika]

I only have one word for that . FORE

Ah, yes. Golfing with a gasmask.

 

[MaryKB]

I get where you are coming from but I think this situation is entirely too personal to paint with a broad brush. Some people will do it out of custom, some do it because they like the in-laws and want to share the good news by way of asking, some think it is the right thing to do and don't see it as an affront to feminism, etc.

I didn't ask for permission, fwiw

It's a custom based on transfer of ownership; a woman wasn't free to make her own decisions, she was her father's property, and so her suitor asks her father for "permission" to transfer her to him. And then the wedding's when her father legally transfers ownership of her to her new husband. I don't see any way how it isn't incredibly gross.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Sure you see it as gross but not everyone does. These days it is an entirely harmless* thing and I don't think it's worth shaming people over.

*If you argue that some parents may refuse in an attempt to flex their ownership or whatever, I'd say they are terrible people that are going to do terrible things with or without the tradition. That's basically what happened when I got married; it was nearly a total disaster thanks to the in-laws acting like they owned their daughter. I didn't ask for permission and they still took concrete steps to stop the marriage and managed to delay it by a year and forced us to spend our nest egg to put on the ceremony, setting us up for serious hardship down the road. And truth be told, they likely would have said yes at the time had I asked!

 

[MaryKB]

Some people don't see confederate flags as harmful either. I really don't see your point?

Honestly hobbs, I'm sorry but you're lecturing me here on a sensitive feminist issue.

It's not harmless at all, because it's part of a gross tradition. Really, both "asking for permission" and "giving away the bride" both need to stop, now.

Why would you want to continue a tradition about treating women as property?

I'd say it's absolutely worth shaming over, it's absolutely disgusting.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm not lecturing, I'm sharing different points of view.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think resistance to bad cultural influence should be proportional to the harm they cause. Confederate flags and monuments are rallying points for real life Nazis. I don't think the tradition of asking permission to get married really moves the needle regressively on women's rights, especially since it's probably on the way out as a tradition anyways.

 

[MaryKB]

Hobbs, you're practically mansplaining

My suggestion would be to not tell women they're wrong about a sexism issue. It's not your decision to make about how much harm it causes.

It's incredibly demeaning to women, and your lack of ability to see that doesn't make it not so.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm not saying it's a good tradition and I'm not defending it. I'm just saying it's not worth shaming people over. Either way I'll leave it alone.

 

[MaryKB]

I'm not saying it's a good tradition and I'm not defending it. I'm just saying it's not worth shaming people over. Either way I'll leave it alone.

Treating women like property isn't worth shaming???

 

[Farm Boy]

I guess it depends on how people view marriage. Lots changes over time as the terms become legacy. They're still marriages even if the fundamental deal lies in eras barbaric. So has "asking her parents." I think my phrasing(to both her mom and dad) was, "I'm going to ask <your daughter> to marry me. Do you have any concerns?"

Now, she's close with her family. If she wasn't, it wouldn't make sense. But they're an enormous part of her life, and marrying me does not change that. Which puts it on me(and them) to incorporate them into my closest network of family. The conversation was really helpful. It provided a frank time to talk about medical issues. To talk about birth control issues. The question I asked her changed who her power of attorney was. It changed my power of attorney. She was likewise good about talking with my parents. And that's really the heart of it. Unless somebody is estranged, you're two people merging families without them getting much choice in the matter, but you damn well need to know what they say. Writing this archaic ritual off as something not to do is creepy and isolating. A married couple is not an island. Treating them as such is sort of textbook cult-y with the same concerns.

 

[MaryKB]

I guess it depends on how people view marriage. Lots changes over time as the terms become legacy. They're still marriages even if the fundamental deal lies in eras barbaric. So has "asking her parents." I think my phrasing(to both her mom and dad) was, "I'm going to ask <your daughter> to marry me. Do you have any concerns?"

I feel that's much different than asking "permission", you sound like you were asking for advice.

 

[Farm Boy]

That's what people call it. And if there were grave concerns from her closest family, it's better to have them out in the open earlier rather than later. Likewise her father "giving her away" was symbolic not of handing over a leash, but the role of "most important man" in her life. As if that in any way actually diminishes her father. It simply acts to elevate us as us.

 

[Lexicus]

I get where you are coming from but I think this situation is entirely too personal to paint with a broad brush. Some people will do it out of custom, some do it because they like the in-laws and want to share the good news by way of asking, some think it is the right thing to do and don't see it as an affront to feminism, etc.

I have to agree with Mary here, it is literally patriarchy to ask a woman's father for permission to marry her.