2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Timsup2nothin]

The thread is about the 2020 election and now a woman has accused Biden of sexual assault and you compared her to a cockroach popping out of the woodwork... Thats on you, dont blame me.

I'm impressed by how diligent you are about this "committed contrarianism." Can you explain how it differs from basic trolling? I mean, it just seems like "get on a tangent and be as disruptively offensive as possible." But I'm perhaps missing something there.

Oh, another question. What do you get out of it, really? You seem pretty universally disliked here, and it appears much the same on other forums you frequent, at least the one I know of. Is that a consequence, or an objective? Is whatever you are getting out of it somehow "worth it" to you, or is part of being a committed contrarian a perverse preference for being disliked?

 

[cardgame]

I believe Biden's accusers

You only have to look at how creepy he already is wrt touching women and kids and not understanding why they get upset, demonstrating in public for all to see that he doesn't understand consent, and combine that with being one of the most powerful people in the country (a member of the U.S. Senate at the time, no?)

 

[Patine]

I'm impressed by how diligent you are about this "committed contrarianism." Can you explain how it differs from basic trolling? I mean, it just seems like "get on a tangent and be as disruptively offensive as possible." But I'm perhaps missing something there.

Oh, another question. What do you get out of it, really? You seem pretty universally disliked here, and it appears much the same on other forums you frequent, at least the one I know of. Is that a consequence, or an objective? Is whatever you are getting out of it somehow "worth it" to you, or is part of being a committed contrarian a perverse preference for being disliked?

It's more eloquent that basic trolling, I'll give it that. Basic trolling is pretty coarse, you have to admit.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Biden is literally on camera touching women and young girls in weird, inappropriate ways.

He really reminds me of an abuser, the way he has his hands all over them, he's a beast.

 

[Patine]

I believe Biden's accusers

You only have to look at how creepy he already is wrt touching women and kids and not understanding why they get upset, demonstrating in public for all to see that he doesn't understand consent, and combine that with being one of the most powerful people in the country (a member of the U.S. Senate at the time, no?)

I am reminded, however, of an incident 10 years or so ago, when a woman accused Celine Dion's now late husband of sexual assault and launched a lawsuit. When her story was so full of holes a Swiss cheesemaker would be gobsmacked, she broke down into tears in the court room and said so many woman successfully sued celebrities for that and it seemed so easy, she just wanted to be rich. I'm looking for a link to that story as we speak...

 

[Patine]

Biden is literally on camera touching women and young girls in weird, inappropriate ways.

He really reminds me of an abuser, the way he has his hands all over them, he's a beast.

That means we'll have two likely sex offenders running in the GE - which means it won't be an election issue.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I believe Biden's accusers

You only have to look at how creepy he already is wrt touching women and kids and not understanding why they get upset, demonstrating in public for all to see that he doesn't understand consent, and combine that with being one of the most powerful people in the country (a member of the U.S. Senate at the time, no?)

I don't really have much of an opinion. It's way too easy to see modern politics in the US including hired slander to completely discount the possibility, but it is also impossible to discount the possibility of powerful men behaving in ugly sordid ways, so for me the whole thing is pretty much a loss.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Pretty much every presidential candidate with any chance to win is gonna be accused of rape from now on.

Someone providing details doesnt make it something true. Generally fiction has far richer details than biography.

Not that I like Biden by any means. It's super pathetic that these two weak-ego schmucks are gonna be our two choices to rule the country but accusations dont equal guilt.

And this, my friends, is how abusers get the benefit of the doubt and move on to abuse others.

I've seen it first hand. Disgusting.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I don't really have much of an opinion. It's way to easy to see modern politics in the US including hired slander to completely discount the possibility, but it is also impossible to discount the possibility of powerful men behaving in ugly sordid ways, so for me the whole thing is pretty much a loss.

Imagine if that was your child or relative he was touching in such a manner what would your reaction be?

What would your response be?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Imagine if that was your child or relative he was touching in such a manner what would your reaction be?

What would your response be?

To restrain my sister and call him an ambulance, if she thought there was anything inappropriate to it.

 

[Patine]

And this, my friends, is how abusers get the benefit of the doubt and move on to abuse others.

I've seen it first hand. Disgusting.

You are right. But the "easy mark," tendency into the future is also a worry. Personally, I'm a firm believer of due process and innocent until proven guilty FOR ALL, which is the basis of Common Law judicial precedent. Although, indeed, sexual assault is a VERY serious issue, and should be taken with the utmost seriousness and sobriety, on the other hand MeToo is in danger of becoming another Salem Witch Trials, Deep South Lynchings, and Red Scare, where a mere accusation in a given area of crime is as good as a conviction - and that is somewhere NO civilized society should want to sway.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

To restrain my sister and call him an ambulance, if she thought there was anything inappropriate to it.

I watched that video of him around a young girl and if that was my daughter Biden wouldn't be walking. He wouldn't even be running in this election,with that now clear in both of our minds, why do you hold onto the belief that Biden, head to head against a man with similar tendencies towards females, is more electable?

 

[AmazonQueen]

You are right. But the "easy mark," tendency into the future is also a worry. Personally, I'm a firm believer of due process and innocent until proven guilty FOR ALL, which is the basis of Common Law judicial precedent. Although, indeed, sexual assault is a VERY serious issue, and should be taken with the utmost seriousness and sobriety, on the other hand MeToo is in danger of becoming another Salem Witch Trials, Deep South Lynchings, and Red Scare, where a mere accusation in a given area of crime is as good as a conviction - and that is somewhere NO civilized society should want to sway.

Not so far. 1 conviction, Harvey Weinstein.The powerful are merely embarrassed, not lynched.

 

[Patine]

Not so far. 1 conviction, Harvey Weinstein.The powerful are merely embarrassed, not lynched.

I didn't say it had happened yet. It was just a trend that could happen if vigilance is not taken. Plus, while only one conviction (actually, two, you forgot Bill Cosby), but jobs have been lost, contracts terminated, livelihoods destroyed, reputations shattered, even suicides, on mere accusations - that is what is FAR more common - and, it was also FAR more common as the phenomenon in the Red Scare - see "blacklisting."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I watched that video of him around a young girl and if that was my daughter Biden wouldn't be walking. He wouldn't even be running in this election,with that now clear in both of our minds, why do you hold onto the belief that Biden, head to head against a man with similar tendencies towards females, is more electable?

Because for one thing I honestly don't think that you represent a very large percentage of the actual electorate. That's not a slight, since I think it is obvious that I don't hold voters generally in very high regard.

For the other thing, I think a lot of your video watching is through sources that the bulk of the electorate don't see, or at least don't take seriously. For example, the video Berzerker posted would never cross my path if Berzerker hadn't posted it, and since Berzerker posted it I didn't bother watching it. Even if someone else had posted it the "TJDS" watermark in the corner, which I figured out stands for 'The Jimmy Dore Show,' says 'internet kook' to me and makes it very unlikely I would ever press play. And as stated, if I didn't hang out here I wouldn't even see it so I'd never have an option to press play. In this regard I think I represent a much larger portion of the electorate.

As to the 'similarity' with Trump, let me know when someone catches Biden on tape boasting about how his fame allows him to "just grab 'em by the ____." This is basically the same thing I've been saying about how every Democrat will be accused of being a socialist, but Sanders will be targeted by ads where he says it himself and those have a lot more impact. Short of a conviction for sexual assault or getting comparably caught on tape nothing is going to match Trump in his own words.

 

[cardgame]

Once again the comparison between corporate centrists and trump is that trump says the quiet part out loud

 

[mitsho]

So, do I get that right? Biden should step down as a candidate since yes, such allegations are to be taken seriously and Democrats don't want such a person for their leader. They demanded the same from Trump, but Republicans just don't care about those kinds of scandals. In that way, Republicans can be scumbags and Democrats need to be angels.

Yes, I can see it and it would be a big reason for me to vote for them. It is interesting though how quickly the arguments flip between the two sides in this thread. Scary, but interesting. Reminds me of that poll showing that Republican Voters having 30 points lower recognition of the dangers of corona just because. That sort of divide is very dangerous with such a factual thing as "how dangerous is Corona".

I haven't read the details of the Biden allegations since I don't need two as a non-American. But: If two people do the same thing, it isn't necessarily the same thing.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I didn't say it had happened yet. It was just a trend that could happen if vigilance is not taken. Plus, while only one conviction (actually, two, you forgot Bill Cosby), but jobs have been lost, contracts terminated, livelihoods destroyed, reputations shattered, even suicides, on mere accusations - that is what is FAR more common - and, it was also FAR more common as the phenomenon in the Red Scare - see "blacklisting."

Bill Cosby case began before MeToo.
Its true that people accused who aren't found guilty can suffer.
Its also true that accusers can suffer, not just the crime if it occurred, but having their reputation savaged in court and the media, also having an effect on their careers, reputations etc.
They haven't been convicted either. If there was a case they could be prosecuted with perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice. They are as entitled to a presumption of innocence as much as the accused.

 

[Ironsided]

Joseph Biden raped a woman with his finger then shook it in her face telling her she is nothing. A woman in his employ.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Joseph Biden raped a woman with his finger then shook it in her face telling her she is nothing. A woman in his employ.

Biden is more like Trump than Tim would ever care to admit to.