2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't think you have much evidence for this actually. I think you are talking out of your ass. First off most left wing platforms enjoy majority support some of it quite demanding support and second Sander's inability in congress to move legislation is because our legislators are corporate puppets, not because his networking sucks.

Again, define "majority." A lot of nominally "left wing" positions enjoy very deep support, as in the people who support them routinely profess them as "the only way" and "a hill worth (well, someone else really) dying on." They also enjoy quite a bit of what is called "support in the nebula." Support in the nebula means that as long as it is a sort of nebulous idea it is popular, but as soon as you start looking at what it takes to make it real that support evaporates. Environmental issues are severely prone to support in the nebula. Everyone will give three cheers for clean air, but as soon as you say "great, here's your bike, gimme your car keys" their perspective shifts abruptly.

The big problem with Sanders, in my opinion, is that he runs in the nebula and he is an experienced enough politician that I cannot accept that he is doing it innocently. He touts "his" positions which are almost all heavy on support in the nebula and is completely accusatory towards anyone that won't "join" him, but he never addresses getting anything done. It's the kind of campaign that, above all else, can never afford to win. If he ever won he would have had to make some sort of effort to put flesh on those popular bones he calls positions, and people would desert him in droves. Bad for book sales.

 

[Estebonrober]

Public polling tends to support his claim. A Gallup survey from last May, for example, revealed that a majority of Americans (58 percent) support the idea of replacing the Affordable Care Act with a federally funded health care system (including four in 10 Republicans!), while only 22 percent of Americans say they want Obamacare repealed and don’t want to replace it with a single-payer system. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll from last year had similar results: Almost two-thirds of Americans (64 percent) had a positive reaction to “Medicare-for-all,” while only a small minority (13 percent) supported repealing the ACA and replacing it with a Republican alternative. These are surprising numbers when you consider how the Sanders campaign’s “Medicare-for-all” plan was written off by critics as being too extreme.

On other issues, a similar story presents itself. Public Policy Polling (PPP) has found that the vast majority (88 percent) of voters in Florida, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- four crucial swing states, three of which went to Trump this fall -- oppose cutting Social Security benefits, while a majority (68 percent) oppose privatizing Social Security. Similarly, 67 percent of Americans support requiring high-income earners to pay the payroll tax for all of their income (the cap is currently $118,500), according to a Gallup poll. America’s two other major social programs, Medicare and Medicaid, are also widely supported by Americans, and the vast majority oppose any spending cuts to either. In fact, more Americans support cutting the national defense budget than Medicare or Medicaid.

It goes on and on. A majority of Americans, 61 percent, believe that upper-income earners pay too little in taxes. A majority of 64 percent believe that corporations don’t pay their fair share in taxes. Significant majorities believe that wealth distribution is unfair in America, support raising the minimum wage (though perhaps not as high as Sanders would like), and say they are worried about climate change.

https://www.salon.com/2017/01/14/am...ers-economic-policies-so-howd-we-end-up-here/

Seventy percent said they supported providing "Medicare for all," also known as single-payer health care, for Americans, according to a new American Barometer survey.

The poll, conducted by Hill.TV and the HarrisX polling company, found that 42 percent of respondents said they "strongly" supported the proposal, while 28 percent said they "somewhat" supported it.

Fifteen percent said they "somewhat" opposed the measure, while another 15 percent said they "strongly" opposed it.

The results mirrored a Reuters-Ipsos poll released in August, which also found that 70 percent of Americans supported "Medicare for all."

The poll comes as an increasing number of Democrats have touted the proposal as health care becomes a major campaign issue ahead of the midterm elections.

"'Medicare for all' is a way for Democrats to say basically, 'Hey, we understand that this is an issue, and we're willing to do something about it,'" Democratic pollster Nancy Zdunkewicz told Hill.TV's Joe Concha on "What America's Thinking."

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-ame...mericans-support-medicare-for-all-health-care

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/08/the-radical-lefts-agenda-is-more-popular-than-the-gops.html

I mean it goes on and on and on and on. Left wing policies are popular. Period.

 

[Zardnaar]

Public polling tends to support his claim. A Gallup survey from last May, for example, revealed that a majority of Americans (58 percent) support the idea of replacing the Affordable Care Act with a federally funded health care system (including four in 10 Republicans!), while only 22 percent of Americans say they want Obamacare repealed and don’t want to replace it with a single-payer system. A Kaiser Family Foundation poll from last year had similar results: Almost two-thirds of Americans (64 percent) had a positive reaction to “Medicare-for-all,” while only a small minority (13 percent) supported repealing the ACA and replacing it with a Republican alternative. These are surprising numbers when you consider how the Sanders campaign’s “Medicare-for-all” plan was written off by critics as being too extreme.

On other issues, a similar story presents itself. Public Policy Polling (PPP) has found that the vast majority (88 percent) of voters in Florida, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- four crucial swing states, three of which went to Trump this fall -- oppose cutting Social Security benefits, while a majority (68 percent) oppose privatizing Social Security. Similarly, 67 percent of Americans support requiring high-income earners to pay the payroll tax for all of their income (the cap is currently $118,500), according to a Gallup poll. America’s two other major social programs, Medicare and Medicaid, are also widely supported by Americans, and the vast majority oppose any spending cuts to either. In fact, more Americans support cutting the national defense budget than Medicare or Medicaid.

It goes on and on. A majority of Americans, 61 percent, believe that upper-income earners pay too little in taxes. A majority of 64 percent believe that corporations don’t pay their fair share in taxes. Significant majorities believe that wealth distribution is unfair in America, support raising the minimum wage (though perhaps not as high as Sanders would like), and say they are worried about climate change.

https://www.salon.com/2017/01/14/am...ers-economic-policies-so-howd-we-end-up-here/

Seventy percent said they supported providing "Medicare for all," also known as single-payer health care, for Americans, according to a new American Barometer survey.

The poll, conducted by Hill.TV and the HarrisX polling company, found that 42 percent of respondents said they "strongly" supported the proposal, while 28 percent said they "somewhat" supported it.

Fifteen percent said they "somewhat" opposed the measure, while another 15 percent said they "strongly" opposed it.

The results mirrored a Reuters-Ipsos poll released in August, which also found that 70 percent of Americans supported "Medicare for all."

The poll comes as an increasing number of Democrats have touted the proposal as health care becomes a major campaign issue ahead of the midterm elections.

"'Medicare for all' is a way for Democrats to say basically, 'Hey, we understand that this is an issue, and we're willing to do something about it,'" Democratic pollster Nancy Zdunkewicz told Hill.TV's Joe Concha on "What America's Thinking."

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-ame...mericans-support-medicare-for-all-health-care

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/08/the-radical-lefts-agenda-is-more-popular-than-the-gops.html

I mean it goes on and on and on and on. Left wing policies are popular. Period.

Still pointless when you can't win elections.

Bernie couldn't win vs other Democrats.

A lot if these ideas are basically free money. If course they're popular. Who wants a $100.

Part two comes to who is gonna pay for it which usually means the top 30%.

AKA the ones who vote in the highest numbers. A similar number don't actually vote.

The same generation that doesn't vote that much also goes to spring break parties during a pandemic.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I mean it goes on and on and on and on. Left wing policies are popular. Period.

I already said they were supported in the nebula. The question is how does the support hold up when the realities start getting fleshed out? "Healthcare reform" as a two word concept was universally supported in 2007. There wasn't a USian beyond kindergarten that wasn't aware that the health care system was on the brink of collapse. "Do something" was an absolute demand from the electorate. But as soon as something got done that same electorate promptly forgot completely how bad things had been.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

So Biden is a rapist. Already 8 women came out with allegations, and the latest case was described in graphic details which made my skin crawl. Utterly disgusting.

Well, at least the Democratic Party and all the "me too" folks are going to take action because this is unacceptable, right? Riiight? Hahahahaha who am I kidding. The whole "believe women" crew who were rage-tweeting about Kavanaugh all day every day are now completely silent, with some even suggesting that Tara Reade is lying or being an opportunist.

I am not voting for a rapist, though.

 

[Estebonrober]

Still pointless when you can't win elections.

Bernie couldn't win vs other Democrats.

A lot if these ideas are basically free money. If course they're popular. Who wants a $100.

Part two comes to who is gonna pay for it which usually means the top 30%.

AKA the ones who vote in the highest numbers. A similar number don't actually vote.

The same generation that doesn't vote that much also goes to spring break parties during a pandemic.

I already said they were supported in the nebula. The question is how does the support hold up when the realities start getting fleshed out? "Healthcare reform" as a two word concept was universally supported in 2007. There wasn't a USian beyond kindergarten that wasn't aware that the health care system was on the brink of collapse. "Do something" was an absolute demand from the electorate. But as soon as something got done that same electorate promptly forgot completely how bad things had been.

You two need a nickname. I'm going with the "Can under no terms do anything team".

The support for the wealth tax and increasing taxation is also broadly popular so yes even after fleshing it out is popular.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So Biden is a rapist. Already 8 women came out with allegations, and the latest case was described in graphic details which made my skin crawl. Utterly disgusting.

Well, at least the Democratic Party and all the "me too" folks are going to take action because this is unacceptable, right? Riiight? Hahahahaha who am I kidding. The whole "believe women" crew who were rage-tweeting about Kavanaugh all day every day are now completely silent, with some even suggesting that Tara Reade is lying or being an opportunist.

I am not voting for a rapist, though.

What happens if we find some seventy year old woman who claims to have been there with Sanders back in the "free love and peace marches" days and reports that he put more emphasis on the 'free' than she wanted to?

I'll say the same thing I said during the Kavanaugh hearings...I have some ex-girlfriends that I am sure haven't thought about me in decades who would probably pop out of the woodwork if I were appointed to the supreme court, and a lot of them would probably hate me if they were reminded of my existence. I was against Kavanaugh because he never seemed to grow out of his privileged frat boy state, not because of what he might well have done while he actually was a privileged frat boy. I also pretty consistently oppose handing over anything to anyone who was a privileged frat boy ever. I was against GWBush, Kavanaugh, Trump, and every other silver spoon in every orifice candidate that has come along.

The support for the wealth tax and increasing taxation is also broadly popular so yes even after fleshing it out is popular.

"The wealth tax" is broadly popular? Which one? Increased property taxes? That is the only wealth based tax that we currently have, and it is grossly unpopular. One of the few big popular cheers that D'ump has achieved was his effort to kill the inheritance tax. A survey on three words "what do you think of 'a wealth tax'?" may come up broadly popular, but as soon as you start fleshing out what you mean that support collapses.

 

[Traitorfish]

Bernie couldn't win vs other Democrats.

Will he be competing against other Democrats in the general?

Moderates have long hooted and hollered that it isn't about who can win the largest share of party loyalists, but who can win the largest share of the voting public as a whole. It is not self-evident that Biden, whose platform is essentially the same as Clinton's losing 2016 platform, but presented by a man who is clearly losing his higher cognitive functions to dementia, can fill that role, simply because he is assessed by Washington pundits to be closer to a conceptual "centre" that exists largely inside their imaginations, despite the lack of substantive evidence that his policies are more widely popular or more widely than anyone else gunning for the presidential office.

The one difference everyone is gambling on is that Biden is the long-prophecised prince who will win back the "Obama in '08, Trump in '16" cohort of working class white Mid-Westerners, but that mostly relies on the deeply patronising assumption that Clinton's policies will become suddenly appealing when attached to an old white man who pretends to be Irish, and the last election seemed to demonstrate just how well that demographic respond to being patronised by the Democratic Party.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Any Democrat campaign relies on that "cohort of working class midwesterners" being plainly horrified by the mistake they made in backing Trump.

 

[Berzerker]

So Biden is a rapist. Already 8 women came out with allegations, and the latest case was described in graphic details which made my skin crawl. Utterly disgusting.

Well, at least the Democratic Party and all the "me too" folks are going to take action because this is unacceptable, right? Riiight? Hahahahaha who am I kidding. The whole "believe women" crew who were rage-tweeting about Kavanaugh all day every day are now completely silent, with some even suggesting that Tara Reade is lying or being an opportunist.

I am not voting for a rapist, though.

Howard Dean just stepped in it, Dems better find someone else for November. I cant imagine Biden winning now, he wont even have the moral high ground against Trump when it comes to sexual assault. That was part of Hillary's problem, she defended Slick Willie by 'questioning' the credibility of his accusers. The Democrat media silence will be deafening, even the GOP media cant make too many waves since Trump's in the same rowboat with Joe.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Howard Dean just stepped in it, Dems better find someone else for November. I cant imagine Biden winning now, he wont even have the moral high ground against Trump when it comes to sexual assault. That was part of Hillary's problem, she defended Slick Willie by 'questioning' the credibility of his accusers. The Democrat media silence will be deafening, even the GOP media cant make too many waves since Trump's in the same rowboat with Joe.

The number one Trumpist leaps to the fore yet again.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Ah yes, Howard Dean, the guy who praised The Intercept and Ryan Grim for breaking the story about Kavanaugh is now questioning The Intercept's and Ryan Grim's credibility.

All these monkeys are just moronic opportunists who think we don't remember what they said two years ago? Well, too bad we have social media records now, so you can't just back out and pretend you didn't say it.

What happens if we find some seventy year old woman who claims to have been there with Sanders back in the "free love and peace marches" days and reports that he put more emphasis on the 'free' than she wanted to?

Then Bernie would have to drop out and re-think his life choices. Same standards should apply to everyone.

 

[Berzerker]

The number one Trumpist leaps to the fore yet again.

I'd rather defend Trump when I think he's right or his critics are petty hypocrites than defend Biden against this woman. You leapt in front of the metoo Mack Truck coming down the freeway.

You falsely accused me of dismissing accusations of sexual misconduct against Trump and you dismissed an accusation of sexual misconduct against Biden while accusing me of partisanship.

all in the same paragraph

You're the strategist, what should Biden voters do now with this story out there? Lie, ignore the hypocrisy, dismiss the accuser and attack the messenger like Dean, or find someone to run against Trump who doesn't have this hanging around their neck?

Biden wasn't a drunken frat boy who needed to 'grow' when this happened, it was shortly after the Clarence Thomas - Anita Hill episode... And I believed her too.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'd rather defend Trump when I think he's right or his critics are petty hypocrites than defend Biden against this woman. You leapt in front of the metoo Mack Truck coming down the freeway.

You falsely accused me of dismissing accusations of sexual misconduct against Trump and you dismissed an accusation of sexual misconduct against Biden while accusing me of partisanship.

all in the same paragraph

You're the strategist, what should Biden voters do now with this story out there? Lie, ignore the hypocrisy, dismiss the accuser and attack the messenger like Dean, or find someone to run against Trump who doesn't have this hanging around their neck?

Biden wasn't a drunken frat boy who needed to 'grow' when this happened, it was shortly after the Clarence Thomas - Anita Hill episode... And I believed her too.

LOL...you continuously say "wait for proof" about a man who boasts on tape about his sexual misconduct while casually dismissing anyone from running against him at the drop of an allegation, and have the audacity to call yourself non-partisan.

I get it, admiring yourself as a "contrarian" means you have to pick these fights, but it doesn't keep the rest of us from thinking you are just abjectly ridiculous.

 

[Narz]

So Biden is a rapist. Already 8 women came out with allegations, and the latest case was described in graphic details which made my skin crawl. Utterly disgusting.

Well, at least the Democratic Party and all the "me too" folks are going to take action because this is unacceptable, right? Riiight? Hahahahaha who am I kidding. The whole "believe women" crew who were rage-tweeting about Kavanaugh all day every day are now completely silent, with some even suggesting that Tara Reade is lying or being an opportunist.

I am not voting for a rapist, though.

Pretty much every presidential candidate with any chance to win is gonna be accused of rape from now on.

Someone providing details doesnt make it something true. Generally fiction has far richer details than biography.

Not that I like Biden by any means. It's super pathetic that these two weak-ego schmucks are gonna be our two choices to rule the country but accusations dont equal guilt.

 

[Berzerker]

LOL...you continuously say "wait for proof" about a man who boasts on tape about his sexual misconduct while casually dismissing anyone from running against him at the drop of an allegation, and have the audacity to call yourself non-partisan.

I get it, admiring yourself as a "contrarian" means you have to pick these fights, but it doesn't keep the rest of us from thinking you are just abjectly ridiculous.

I never told people to wait for proof when women accused Trump of sexual misconduct, I took them at their word. You picked the fight, I just reported this woman's accusation. Believing her is the contrarian position? So much for believing the women I guess, sorry metoo...

“For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts, whether or not it’s been made worse or better over time. But nobody fails to understand that this is like jumping into a cauldron.” - Joe Biden

Why do you think Trump's accusers are "way more credible" than this woman? When Kavanaugh was accused I believed Ford and argued the point with his defenders, I'd call that non-partisan. And I argued with people defending Moore who said it was long ago and they had no proof, their word aint good enough, they're just haters. Sounds like your argument.

She is showing your true colors

I have some ex-girlfriends that I am sure haven't thought about me in decades who would probably pop out of the woodwork if I were appointed to the supreme court, and a lot of them would probably hate me if they were reminded of my existence.

Did you defend Kavanaugh with that argument? Ford wasn't his girlfriend, but why would they 'pop out of the woodwork' to hate you? Did you sexually assault them or would they testify about your charming personality?

She wasn't Biden's girlfriend and he wasn't a drunken frat boy who needs to grow. Maybe they'd come forward because you were nominated for the court and they had reason to believe you were unworthy of such power. This woman didn't just appear from nowhere, she told people back when it happened. Comparing the victim of sexual assault to a cockroach now?

 

[innonimatu]

A lot if these ideas are basically free money. If course they're popular. Who wants a $100.

Part two comes to who is gonna pay for it which usually means the top 30%.

None of Bernie's ideas were "free money". Overall M4A would save resources, cut waste and improve outcomes.

Compare that to the corporate welfare in the trillions. To pumping oil that is more expensive that what it can be sold for. To corporations with the cuddly label of unicorns that are run year after year making losses. There is free money for their waste and malevolent social re-engineering, the "sharing economy" yeah right...

As for win versus other Democrats, you can't win playing a rigged game. You must refuse to play by the rules, overturn the game. Bernie doesn't have what it takes, he showed that when he supported Clinton and is showing it again. The DNC is made up of people bought and paid for. There is no way to change the Democrats, a new party from the ground up is necessary to change anything there.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Comparing the victim of sexual assault to a cockroach now?

Nope, just pointing out how ridiculous your committed contrarianism makes you look.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

None of Bernie's ideas were "free money". Overall M4A would save resources, cut waste and improve outcomes.

Compare that to the corporate welfare in the trillions. To pumping oil that is more expensive that what it can be sold for. To corporations with the cuddly label of unicorns that are run year after year making losses. There is free money for their waste and malevolent social re-engineering, the "sharing economy" yeah right...

As for win versus other Democrats, you can't win playing a rigged game. You must refuse to play by the rules, overturn the game. Bernie doesn't have what it takes, he showed that when he supported Clinton and is showing it again. The DNC is made up of people bought and paid for. There is no way to change the Democrats, a new party from the ground up is necessary to change anything there.

LOL...I assume by "from the ground up" you mean we need to get rid of all those pesky voters that just wouldn't follow your insistent call to vote for Sanders.

 

[innonimatu]

LOL...I assume by "from the ground up" you mean we need to get rid of all those pesky voters that just wouldn't follow your insistent call to vote for Sanders.

I mean calling an enemy "my enemy", instead of "my friend". And informing those voters truthfully about the issues, instead of fighting with one hand tied.