2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Cloud_Strife]

When the disease is literally killing property and the cure is not platforming bigots...

I can't really have a conversation with either of you if you're going to ignore reality, it simply isn't worth the effort of holding your hands if you can't even acknowledge that platforming bigots presents a risk to already vulnerable groups.

 

[Zardnaar]

When the disease is literally killing property and the cure is not platforming bigots...

I can't really have a conversation with either of you if you're going to ignore reality, it simply isn't worth the effort of holding your hands if you can't even acknowledge that platforming bigots presents a risk to already vulnerable groups.

I would deplatform them from things like Twitter, Facebook, YouTube etc.

But not from forums if their own such as Iloveadolfhemakesmehard.com.

That way you can keep an eye on what they're saying and you know who's in charge.

You can't spit the line wolf types. The article I posted was from the SPLC. They try to monitor things as best they can.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think what Patine means the cure is worse than the disease.

The article I posted all that time ago was sure deplatform the Nazis but it made things more violent.

So the danger to Cloud actually increases by deplatforming. It's because Nazi gonna Nazi but if you push them into the darkweb or whatever the rhetoric increases.

In all the places I hang out, including this one, you are the only person I see trying this argument. Has it ever worked? Have you ever convinced anyone that Nazis gonna Nazi, so it's better to just let them do it in a facebook group and invite bored teens than to push them into the dark web? On its face that seems really absurd, but if you have verifiable claims about people you have gotten to believe it I might have a couple bridges for you to sell on consignment.

 

[Zardnaar]

In all the places I hang out, including this one, you are the only person I see trying this argument? Has it ever worked? Have you ever convinced anyone that Nazis gonna Nazi, so it's better to just let them do it in a facebook group and invite bored teens than to push them into the dark web? On its face that seems really absurd, but if you have verifiable claims about people you have gotten to believe it I might have a couple bridges for you to sell on consignment.

See previous comment over what I would deplatform. You don't have to give them a megaphone but they can keep their own soapbox.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

See previous comment over what I would deplatform. You don't have to give them a megaphone but they can keep their own soapbox.

You think the forums on Stormfront were harder to invite bored teenagers to than a facebook group is?

 

[Zardnaar]

You think the forums on Stormfront were harder to invite bored teenagers to than a facebook group is?

IDK I'm not that familiar with FB groups. I've only just started using them.

Best way to fight Nazism is to remove what fuels them. That being economic distress.

That and the culture of the country you live in.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

How about that impeachment strategy of waiting for the most braindead and easily-spun 'democrats are corrupt and covering for one of their own' scenario?

D'ump was gonna lie and spin no matter what the scenario, and Trumpists were gonna buy the spin. Not quite sure why you are, but I'm guessing Sanders has something to do with it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

IDK I'm not that familiar with FB groups. I've only just started using them.

Best way to fight Nazism is to remove what fuels them. That being economic distress.

That and the culture of the country you live in.

Well, you were the one that said to deplatform them off Facebook but leave them their "little soapboxes" like Stormfront. I can tell you that it was quicker and easier to register and start posting and chatting at Stormfront than it is at Facebook, so I think leaving them that easy access to kids would have been just dumb.

 

[H4run]

So the danger to Cloud actually increases by deplatforming. It's because Nazi gonna Nazi but if you push them into the darkweb or whatever the rhetoric increases.

It will decreased because the spectrum of people who used dark-web are much limited than facebook. Giving a platform to the extreme right wing is vis a vis giving a platform to terrorist organization, both are condone violence against civilian group and willing to materialized their ideology by forced mean.

Given some of the fringe hard-core right wing might not stop their activity just because facebook or youtube banned them, they will keep their agitation and regeneration in dark-web for instance or any other possible platform, it will continue. If that's the case, that is the work for intelligence services to think about.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, you were the one that said to deplatform them off Facebook but leave them their "little soapboxes" like Stormfront. I can tell you that it was quicker and easier to register and start posting and chatting at Stormfront than it is at Facebook, so I think leaving them that easy access to kids would have been just dumb.

Let them. If the kids are flirting with Nazism they're gonna find a way. I'm sure I could do a Google search and find them.

I'm not sure how Stormfront works either I assume it's just like any other forum.

 

[Zardnaar]

It will decreased because the spectrum of people who used dark-web are much limited than facebook. Giving a platform to the extreme right wing is vis a vis giving a platform to terrorist organization, both are condone violence against civilian group and willing to materialized their ideology by forced mean.

Given some of the fringe hard-core right wing might not stop their activity just because facebook or youtube banned them, they will keep their agitation and regeneration in dark-web for instance or any other possible platform, it will continue. If that's the case, that is the work of intelligence services.

It's not the numbers the darkweb stuff is more extreme and seems to attract the line wolves more.

The ones that decide to go Jew hunting with an AR-15 probably aren't posting on Stormfront they're being egged on via more extreme sites.

Let them rally as well they usually make fools of themselves and/or get exposed. Also I have no problem with them being deplatformed from FB.

Also see my copious comments of the importance of winning elections. Dumbasses need to learn consequences of losing elections to Trump.

 

[H4run]

It's not the numbers the darkweb stuff is more extreme and seems to attract the line wolves more.

The ones that decide to go Jew hunting with an AR-15 probably aren't posting on Stormfront they're being egged on via more extreme sites.

Let them rally as well they usually make fools of themselves and/or get exposed.

By giving them a platform in facebook, it doesn't mean they will discuss such operation also in that platform. All of those important and sensitive operation will be discuss internally in meetings or in a hidden platform, encrypted messages and all of those stuff. Facebook will be used for the first step of propaganda and recruitment, to attract the vanilla masses, and to invite them in meetings or event that they hold for further orientation, it will acts as a recruitment pools for more members.

The work of intelligence is to anticipate an operation before it happened not to neutralized it during action, if there is such a plan from their side and the intelligence doesn't smell it and not able to anticipate it, that's mean they are doing a bad job.

 

[Zardnaar]

By giving them a platform in facebook, it doesn't mean they will discuss such operation also in that platform. All of those important and sensitive operation will be discuss internally in meetings or in a hidden platform, encrypted messages and all of those stuff. Facebook will be used for the first step of propaganda and recruitment, to attract the vanilla masses, and to invite them in meetings or event that they hold for further orientation, it will acts as a recruitment pools for more members.

The work of intelligence is to anticipate an operation before it happened not to neutralized it during action, if there is such a plan from their side and the intelligence doesn't smell it and not able to anticipate it, that's mean they are doing a bad job.

As I said I wouldn't be going trying to deplatform them from everything. I think antifa for example would be better off exposing them vs trying to fight them when they rally. Not that the cops usually let them lay into each other.

Deplatforming them seems to be the easy mode feel good thing, it's not really fixing the problem.

 

[Patine]

When the disease is literally killing property and the cure is not platforming bigots...

I can't really have a conversation with either of you if you're going to ignore reality, it simply isn't worth the effort of holding your hands if you can't even acknowledge that platforming bigots presents a risk to already vulnerable groups.

I'm not ignoring reality. I just don't think you realize - or care - the actual courses of action you propose, and their REAL ramifications.

 

[H4run]

As I said I wouldn't be going trying to deplatform them from everything. I think antifa for example would be better off exposing them vs trying to fight them when they rally. Not that the cops usually let them lay into each other.

Deplatforming them seems to be the easy mode feel good thing, it's not really fixing the problem.

Shouldn't they be put in a different level? We are talking about an ideology or arguably global movement that mastered the Christchurch shooting. If you put down every kind of counter-culture movement the government will turned into a fascist regime, but some that endangered the civilian and calling for genocide or ethnic and religious cleansing should be neutralized. Communication is essential to those who we can communicate.

 

[Zardnaar]

Shouldn't they be put in a different level? We are talking about an ideology or arguably global movement that mastered the Christchurch shooting. If you put down every kind of counter-culture movement the government will turned into a fascist regime, but some that endangered the civilian and calling for genocide or ethnic and religious cleansing should be neutralized. Communication is essential to those who we can communicate.

The Christchurch shooter was a lone wolf.
He also wasn't an NZer. We haven't had a US style mass shooting by an NZer for over a generation.

For whatever reason there's something about US culture that enables Nazis.

The Australians are almost as bad as the US. Verbally they might be worse, they say stuff American don't.

But I know enough that economic distress then and now is going to fuel Nazis. And the extreme left.

 

[H4run]

The Christchurch shooter was a lone wolf.

Most ISIS operation are lone wolf also, the main body of organization just to inspire and educate them to be able to perform an operation, and gives them wide variety of target, the executor mostly are not directly tied with the movement or organization, they are working in similar pattern, these guys are as terrorist as ISIS is, the difference is ISIS already success made a state of their own, while the right wing still working on it.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm not ignoring reality. I just don't think you realize - or care - the actual courses of action you propose, and their REAL ramifications.

Whatever.

 

[Patine]

Whatever.

You are just a deconstructionist, angry punk lashing out at a "machine," you barely understand and alienating most of those who could be your allies. I empathize with THAT aspect - as I've been there in my young adult days. But I've grown, learned, matured, and adapted since then. Hopefully, you will too...

 

[H4run]

You are just a deconstructionist, angry punk lashing out at a "machine," you barely understand and alienating most of those who could be your allies. I empathize with THAT aspect - as I've been there in my young adult days. But I've grown, learned, matured, and adapted since then. Hopefully, you will too...

No one will feel "understood" when you press their head down while saying a half word of empathy like that comrade. And you should respect Cloud Strife as he is not less passionate than you to what he believes in.