2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Timsup2nothin]

Even more reason to behave responsibly?
EDIT: You might have a case if there was reason to believe burning down property is both useful and required to improve police behavior in this regard.
It's clearly not.

It's not? Can you suggest something else that has been demonstrably successful for improving police behavior in the US?

 

[mitsho]

... but the Election Night doesn‘t really matter... no?

What I find more probable honestly is that he will vacate the office on January whenever, but after conceding on December something will spend the rest of his days there destroying everything, giving himself free gifts and trying to give himself some sort of immunity (don‘t know how - but it will be a trainwreck).

Biden‘s administration will take 6 months just to find all the keys to the doors...

Exactly how much random public and private property is it appropriate to burn down to protest a loss of human life, in your opinion?
As much as it takes until they're resurrected?

I‘d frame the question the other way around: How much property needs to be destroyed that it‘s ok to kill someone for it (even if it‘s in self-defense or whatever)?

(The answer for me is clear: no amount of distruction makes it okay to use deadly force. That car dealership was insured, and if it wasn‘t then that‘s a whole other problem of the US)

Someone pointed it out upthread: Don‘t be surprised if things turn violent if you bring guns to a protest. It‘s better to make sure that there are no guns at such protests in the future. But I guess that‘s another futile wish of mine for the current US...

 

[Kyriakos]

... but the Election Night doesn‘t really matter... no?

What I find more probable honestly is that he will vacate the office on January whenever, but after conceding on December something will spend the rest of his days there destroying everything, giving himself free gifts and trying to give himself some sort of immunity (don‘t know how - but it will be a trainwreck).

Biden‘s administration will take 6 months just to find all the keys to the doors...



I‘d frame the question the other way around: How much property needs to be destroyed that it‘s ok to kill someone for it (even if it‘s in self-defense or whatever)?

(The answer for me is clear: no amount of distruction makes it okay to use deadly force. That car dealership was insured, and if it wasn‘t then that‘s a whole other problem of the US)

Someone pointed it out upthread: Don‘t be surprised if things turn violent if you bring guns to a protest. It‘s better to make sure that there are no guns at such protests in the future. But I guess that‘s another futile wish of mine for the current US...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, wait first to see if Biden manages to even win

 

[Lexicus]

Even more reason to behave responsibly?

Um I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that police misconduct- which as noted costs municipalities far, far more overall in legal settlements than property damage from riots - is caused by people behaving irresponsibly? People other than the police, I mean?

 

[Yeekim]

The "mere fact of following someone to learn their destination" is called stalking and is in fact a crime.

No, it's not. It would also have to be "willful, malicious, and repeated", at least in Florida.
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-stalking-laws.html

Um I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that police misconduct- which as noted costs municipalities far, far more overall in legal settlements than property damage from riots - is caused by people behaving irresponsibly? People other than the police, I mean?

No, see #7538 for clarification.
Sorry for bad phrasing there.

 

[Lexicus]

I meant that horrible waste of public money is not a justification to waste even more of it, but rather the opposite.

This misses the point in a big way. The central problem with police killings is not the amount of money it costs in legal settlements afterwards.

 

[Sommerswerd]

We let mothers kill their children over stress about pittances by comparison. It's not flattering. It's a damned bad look. Let's say.

OK fine, that's one way of looking at it, but in that case we're not just talking about the "pittances" stress. Being someone's mother for the rest of your life, versus not being someone's mother for the rest of your life... is about a hell of a lot more than the "pittances" so I don't know that it can be quantified purely in those terms.

I think they ringed a local liquor shop with people with baseball bats on an exciting night closer to here. The dump probably wasn't even worth 10 million. Ha! Losers.

Regardless...dump or not... that "dump" isn't "the city" and burning it down isn't "burning the city burning down"

Bolded parts are nothing but your own conjecture.

And? There was no reason to bring his gun with him to chase Martin other than an intention to use it if the opportunity presented itself, which it did, and use it he did. That's not conjecture, that's the facts.

 

[Yeekim]

This misses the point in a big way. The central problem with police killings is not the amount of money it costs in legal settlements afterwards.

Of course. I was not the one to bring them up either.
I just don't see vandalism as required or useful to stop police violence and I don't think those who engage in it are bona fide protesters.

And? There was no reason to bring his gun with him to chase Martin other than an intention to use it if the opportunity presented itself, which it did, and use it he did. That's not conjecture, that's the facts.

Sure... getting kicked down and beaten up was all part of him trying to find an opportunity to kill Martin.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's 50+ buildings. This isn't New York. Even in New York it would be 50 buildings. That's into natural disaster level destruction, or a massive coup for a terror organization. Could be worse for riots, sure. But it's not good. Or small.

Agreed on your first paragraph Sommer. But I've been looking at how the platform has been evolving, and money never used to be enough for late term. Now it is. The platform change has a reason, and it's the pittances.

 

[Estebonrober]

If you want to create a stir, it would be better to burn down suburban malls.

Amazon warehouses

 

[Takhisis]

You realize the KKK have killed white people as well right? That doesn't make them any less pro-white supremacist, as is the case with the GOP.

Muggles, Mudbloods, and blood traitors are all fair game.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Same here. That doesn't invalidate the point made, that it ain't a lot of money in context.

Is it a lot in comparison with a human life? Something about eugenics and killbots?

You guys are both getting goalpoast switched off the point. The original claim was that "the city was being burned down" by "arsonists".

When that was challenged as dishonest hyperbole, the response in support of the claim was (paraphrasing) "Well it cost 11 million dollars" the implication being that yeah-huh it was burning the city down. To which I responded that "11 million dollars doesn't constitute the whole city or anything remotely close to it" so the point stands that the original claim was dishonest hyperbole.

Now the goalpost has been switched to whether 11 million dollars is a lot of money or not and what the value of human life is and whether that calculation includes/contemplates abortion... All red-herrings. Of course 11 million dollars is alot of money, but that's irrelevant. The original claim that the protesters were "burning down the city" was dishonest.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ok. Protestors didn't burn anything down. A bunch of rioters destroyed about 11 lifetime's worth of work in a couple evenings, near as I can tell. Some other people took umbrage. Things got out of hand. People are dead. Yayyyy, let's argue about if downtown getting 50 buildings effed up in a regional city(that you guys would seem to call a small town) is the entire literal city that got burned down.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Steve Scully will be the debate moderator for the 2nd debate.

He interned for Joe Biden in 1978.

 

[Takhisis]

Meanwhile with these election thingies I love how the RNC has managed to hoodwink the Floridan Cubans and Venezuelans in exile even if Donald Trump has been investing in Cuba (with the official approval of the Cuban government) since at least 2010, contradicting his own personal pledge not to invest in Cuba from 1999*, and how the US has imported Venezuelan oil and helped prop up the fraudulent government there under his tenure.


*he's been actively exploring that since the late '80s, but the official authorisation, brand recognition, etc. from the Cuban government is from 2010.

 

[Lexicus]

I just don't see vandalism as required or useful to stop police violence and I don't think those who engage in it are bona fide protesters.

*shrug* I think it's less easy to draw the line than you do. I also don't think vandalism (or, more accurately, random arson) is a particularly effective way to stop police violence, but again I think something more is required of me than sitting here and saying "burning down buildings is bad!"

A bunch of rioters destroyed about 11 lifetime's worth of work in a couple evenings, near as I can tell.

11 lifetimes of work? No. Those buildings did not take anyone a lifetime to construct. Their worth was determined more by the state of the real estate market than by the amount of work that went into them.

If you want no more buildings to be burned down because #allbuildingsmatter the correct thing to do is work for a just and equitable society, not to sit behind your keyboard and talk about how horrible it is to riot.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sure... getting kicked down and beaten up was all part of him trying to find an opportunity to kill Martin.

Now you're getting it... although you obviously didn't mean to. But yes, exactly... hunting someone, trying to find an opportunity to shoot them and/or threaten them with a gun due to your racist beliefs is just the kind of threatening behavior that may result in the person defending themselves by kicking you down and beating you up.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Steve Scully will be the debate moderator for the 2nd debate.

He interned for Joe Biden in 1978.

Well Chris Wallace was FOX News back in... right now, so...

 

[Drakle]

Why does everybody assume that all property damage or violence is committed by angry leftists instead of a lot of opportunistic criminals? Who know that Police are far more intent on cracking protester skulls, than actually stopping crime during protests. If anything, police often actively encourage crime during protests, to discredit protests. And in some cases, some police forces have had cops literally loot during protests, like in Baltimore, where they raided pharmacies and sold the drugs on the streets.

And of course, right-wing agent provocateurs have also caused damage during protests.

Steve Scully will be the debate moderator for the 2nd debate.

He interned for Joe Biden in 1978.

And the VP debate moderator threw a party for a corrupt Trump admin appointee.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1305193781650534401

USA Today's Susan Page, who is slated to moderate the vice-presidential debate, hosted a "girls night out" event at her home in honor of Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Seema Verma in November 2018.

The congressional investigation into Verma concluded that her consultants “charged CMS nearly $6 million for work that included boosting her public profile and personal brand, serving as her preferred communications advisers, arranging private meetings for her with media personalities and other high-profile individuals, and routinely traveling with her to events across the country.”

And many of the first debate questions from Chris Wallace were straight out of the Fox News propaganda mill.


Though I will say about the debates, Joe Biden should absolutely accept Trump's demand for a 4th debate. And should totally back the no mute button on the mic. Just keep letting Trump dig his own grave. Filtering Trump, helps Trump. He should be intent on just showing as much Trump as possible.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Weird Al recap song starts at 0:30 for anyone who missed the debate.

**Loud Noise at Start**