30 dead in Turkish Kurdistan town near Syria-- Isis suspected

[Kyriakos]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33593615

RIP..

Looks like some politicians openly speak of Isis gaining power to do this due to Turkey pretty much helping it survive anyway, and the victims of Isis are either kurdish or non ACP-tied turks in the region (eg 'socialist' groups in this case it seems).

Where the bombing attack happened: Suruc, which is right next to Kobane, the latter in Syria, the former in Turkish Kurdistan:

A local journalist, Faruk Baran, told BBC Turkish that there was panic in Suruc after the attack, with shopkeepers closing up for fear of a second attack.

Suruc residents had feared that they could be IS's next target ever since the attack on the pro-Kurdish party's election rally in Diyarbakir on 5 June, he said.

Suruc houses many refugees who have fled the fighting in Kobane.

IS overran the Syrian town in September last year, but it was retaken by Kurdish forces in January.

In June Kobane once more came under assault from IS, with hundreds dead, but the militants were driven out again.

Kobane: Inside the town devastated by fight against IS

Other articles mention a CHP party turkish politician claiming (about Isis) that "the dogs we've been feeding are biting us now". One such article (but it is in german) is at die welt: http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/...e-die-wir-gefuettert-haben-beissen-jetzt.html

*

It is likely that the ruling ACP party might try to use this to launch an attack into Syrian territory, under the pretext of now going to war against Isis (despite apparently propping it up previously).
What do you think will happen?

 

[Triewd]

What do I think will happen? Well I think we are going to need to realize how dangerous ISIS is, and I think Turkey has just realized it - and the fact that our leaders helped make it

another source:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/20/isis-bombs-turkey.html

It’s no secret that Turkey wants the fall of the Assad regime and is supporting a mixture of rebel groups—predominantly Islamist ones—engaged in fighting it. Previously, Ankara has prioritized this war to the one that Washington and Western countries are pursuing against ISIS. Self-interest as much as ideology has informed Turkey’s position. For one thing, the fall of Aleppo would not only be a severe blow to its proxies, it would also send waves of refugees into Turkey, adding to the 2 million currently residing here already.

Up until now, Turkey had adopted a “wait-and-see” policy with respect to ISIS, monitoring the militants’ movements while not starting operations against them until recently. However, that was deemed no longer possible after Tal Abyad, when the police raids started.

This means, however, that ISIS’s own policy of benign neglect is at an end, too. It won’t stand by while its networks and personnel are rounded up in a Turkish dragnet. Today’s attack on Suruç is doubtless just a taste of more to come.

Will Turkey try to attack Syria? Possibly but I think it unwise, Assad is the only thing holding the region together.

THis is a comment from the washington post which I think bears repeating:

The great Syrian Army general, General Issam Zaheraldeen is a Druze. Jumblatt is adept at blowing with whatever wind is blowing strongest at the moment (or carries more money with it). The Washington Post has consistently aided and abetted the Islamist revolution in Syria - as have most western press outlets - to the death and destruction of peaceful and secular Syria. This nightmare is the US punishing Assad for not helping us in our illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq and for having relationships with Iran and Russia. We have been working since 2005 with the ticked off Muslim Brotherhood ex-pats to overthrow Assad's secular dictatorship (that was making real progress towards sustainable democracy) for their sharia law dream state. We've been working with the depraved despots of the absolute monarchies of Saudi Arabia and Qatar - the 'twin towers' of support for radicals and terrorists around the world - and eating out of the hand of the Muslim Bro godfather, Erdogan of Turkey. We've done this for a reckless and malignant foreign policy that has been dictated by neo-cons, neo-libs, Netanyahu and the Riyadh Royals for oil/gas/weapons, in other words, MONEY MONEY MONEY. WE are responsible for the hundreds of thousands dead in Syria, for the bombed churches, for dead Christians, Alawites, Sunnis, and Druze in Syria. WE are responsible for the 'rebel' terrorists who have imposed sharia law wherever they've 'liberated' in secular Syria. WE are responsible for the millions of refugees (HELLO? There were NO refugees BEFORE the US backed Islamist revolution in Syria). Our direct aid to fighters who end up in the ranks of al Nusra and ISIS is nothing short of treason. The Israeli's direct aid to al Qaeda (al Nusra) in the Golan should earn them a ZERO aid package, not a 50% increase. Syria is a perfect storm of nasty, merciless, geo-political intrigue; what it is not is an organic, well-meaning revolution against a tyrant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...f06874-18f7-11e5-bed8-1093ee58dad0_story.html

 

[r16]

the perpetrator of the attack is Kurdish , too . As for ISIL hitting back after the rounding up its network , this is also "false" in the sense the events work in the general direction of seperatist movement taking over the Left in the entire country with the victims now buried all over the country . Specifically aiming those with kinda "hippi" leanings with talks of carrying toys and stuff over the border , so that breeding grounds of "idealistic" attitudes such as universities will see it more clearly who the enemy is and who is fighting the enemy . Leading "anarchists" to attack police stations in Istanbul to remind their "constituency" that they are still alive , even if they are not under seperatist control yet .

and use AKP , they can't fire you like the way they sacked Turkish journalists who refused to use the "Ak" variety ...

 

[Kyriakos]

Ack!

Well, there seems to be an alliance between leftist (up to marxist-leninist etc) groups and Kurdish people in Turkey, going by posts on the latest bombing and its victims..

 

[r16]

they , the guys who run these things , would definitely want the public believe that . In order to further radicalize the Right or something to that end . That's exactly why we had the spectacle of this guy passing in front of the bombing site , with a "Tevhid" flag in black in his bag and this long beard . The flag carrying the exact caligraphy of the Saudi flag and matching the one ISIL uses . The local Kurds couldn't lynch him in time and of course , just of course , he turns out to be an innocent imam ...

 

[Funky]

Well, there seems to be an alliance between leftist (up to marxist-leninist etc) groups and Kurdish people in Turkey, going by posts on the latest bombing and its victims..

Unfortunately, the alliance stretches much further than that. Since the Charleston killing a month ago there have been 50 further terror attacks, causing far over 1,000 deaths. This is going by Wikipedia, which doesn't provide an extensive list - other sources give even higher numbers. Every single one was committed by Muslims around the world. Needless to say, prior months show exactly the same picture. This is the issue of our time. And yet large parts of our societies are unwilling or unable to address the root cause. We hear about Tunisia, because 30 Brits died there, or now about Turkey, due to its proximity to Europe. But most other cases are simply ignored. Or did you hear about the 100-180 killed in Iraq 3 days ago? The 145 in Nigeria on July 2? The 146 in Syria on June 25? Not to mention the countless other cases where "only" dozens of people died.

Instead many people think that a month later it's still reasonable to focus on Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old moronic loser who was not tied to any group, and will be sentenced to death in short time. As if this was comparable. As if it wasn't utterly idiotic to even mention this kid in the same breath as Islamic global terror. But not only that. For years, leftists and so-called progressives, who often have no understanding of the matter whatsoever, have taken gleeful delight in branding anyone who states the facts as a bigot, racist, "islamophobe" or whatever other completely asinine terms they come up with. In doing so, their own bigotry is exceeded only by their self-righteousness. This bizarre alliance between the left in all Western countries really and the Islamic religious right must be stopped. Every day that it continues impedes honest discussion about what is going on in the world and thereby leaves the narrative of radical Islam and Jihad uncontested and unscathed, allowing it to flourish and spread. Fortunately, more and more people seem to be waking up. But it sure is taking a long time.

 

[Kyriakos]

(x-post)

Going by info posted in the analogous thread at TWC (Total War Center) :

Suruç is not a normal town. The police there is military grade, and is constantly patrolled by special forces with APCs-IFVs. There is always tension between the people and police.
Anyways, there was already intelligence of a potential suicide attack.
And many of us think that state knows about many things Daesh does.
In this case, some people go as far as saying this was organized by the state(given the history of paramilitary use by state it would not have been suprising), but I don't think thats the case. However I am sure that even if they were aware of Daesh's move, they turned a blind eye to it.

[...]In anycase, this is certainly not an attack to Turkey. This group was far from representing Turkish official ideology. Some had legal cases on them. They have lived their lives in constant opposition. The group was also one of the major spearhead groups in Gezi Park events.
The ignorance on the internet makes me crazy seeing peple say its good that ISIS support has came back to bite them.
Some of these young people have risked their lives(not just coming here but being involved in illegal opposition and struggling against the fascist tools of the state) from the beginning. They risked their futures struggling for the most dangerous causes in a screwed country. Many of these are students, they could just go along with their lives and live an above average life in big cities. But they chose to risk their lives for the good of everyone in the country, from the poor to the Kurds/Alevis.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Instead many people think that a month later it's still reasonable to focus on Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old moronic loser who was not tied to any group, and will be sentenced to death in short time. As if this was comparable. As if it wasn't utterly idiotic to even mention this kid in the same breath as Islamic global terror. But not only that. For years, leftists and so-called progressives, who often have no understanding of the matter whatsoever, have taken gleeful delight in branding anyone who states the facts as a bigot, racist, "islamophobe" or whatever other completely asinine terms they come up with. In doing so, their own bigotry is exceeded only by their self-righteousness. This bizarre alliance between the left in all Western countries really and the Islamic religious right must be stopped. Every day that it continues impedes honest discussion about what is going on in the world and thereby leaves the narrative of radical Islam and Jihad uncontested and unscathed, allowing it to flourish and spread. Fortunately, more and more people seem to be waking up. But it sure is taking a long time.

First the Charleston shooter was definitely "tied" to the CCC despite them continuing to try to deny the obvious connection. That is apparently what started his journey into domestic terrorism when he became familiar with the Trayvon Martin case, Rhodesia, and how whites were supposedly being murdered in great numbers by blacks from CCC members. They also likely took the photos of the shooter posing with his gun, the Confederate flag, and a burning American flag.

Second, I don't hear anybody claiming the numerous terrorist acts which ISIL has perpetuated is "comparable" to our own obvious domestic terrorism. Source?

Third, trying to claim those who properly label racists, bigots, and Islamophobes have "no understanding of the matter whatsoever" ironically suggests just the opposite.

Fourth, trying to claim there is an "alliance" between "the left in all Western countries really and the Islamic religious right", much less that this obvious terrorism is "uncontested and unscathed" as a result, is just even more so much utter nonsense.

===================================================

Meanwhile, getting back to what this thread is supposed to be about, members of the Kurdish terrorist group PKK apparently murdered 2 Turkish police officers in retaliation for this attack, as violent protests break out in many parts of the country:

Police shot dead, protesters detained after suicide bombing roils Turkish

 

[JollyRoger]

Funky just killed 9 strawmen.

 

[Tahuti]

This bizarre alliance between the left in all Western countries really and the Islamic religious right must be stopped.

It's more accurate to say that significant portions of the left look away. Let's face it; radical Muslims will kill any Western leftist if given the chance, but right now they primarily focus on such Leftists who are directly opposed to Islam (i.e. Charlie Hebdo). It's true certain Leftist politicians in Western European countries pander to a Muslim electorate by demanding no assimilation from Muslims and tolerating fun stuff like FGM, homophobia, misoginy and antisemitism, even when it's in contradiction to their stated beliefs.

However, the Right responded in kind by moving to the Left on issues the traditional Left parties are increasingly abandoning to appease Muslims, such as LGBT and women rights. Since a consensus on economics has began to arise towards Libertarianism, the primary battleground for politics will be identity issues. If the Left wants to gain Muslim support, they will have to be less outspoken on LGBT and Women rights. George Galloway almost takes a homophobic MRA stance to get Muslim votes, despite profiling himself as a Leftist.

It could be a recipe for a number of interesting scenarios: What if LGBT rights and Feminism will be considered a Right-Wing issue (at least in Western Europe) because the Left abondoned it?

*For the record, I do not consider Islam to be naturally bloodthirsty. However, many cultures where Islam is predominant have been stuck in a cultural stasis for a couple centuries which is why most people who are at least nominally Muslim hold outdated views on a number of issues, at least for Western standards.

Funky just killed 9 strawmen.

Nasty strawmen deserve to die.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It's more accurate to say that significant portions of the left look away.

Source?

 

[Tahuti]

Source?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2008/03/14/galloway-claims-iran-executes-sex-offenders-not-gays/

There are countless of examples like these, though this was a really striking one. Also, in the Netherlands, the Labour party and Socialist party have had some really dubious collaborations with homophobes and antisemites under the guise of minority empowerment, though most of the articles about it are in Dutch.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So the wacky views of one MP in this particular matter is sufficient to condemn a "sufficient portion" of liberals?

But please. Do go right ahead and find "countless" more "examples" of a handful of liberals who hold views which are no stranger than those of their far more numerous counterparts.

Speaking of which, I'd love to read even more wacky homophobic and Islamophobic far-right authoritarian propaganda from the likes of Geert Wilders and others, no matter the language. I'm sure they present quite a case of how "liberals" are ruining things for the ultraconservatives in Europe who are merely trying to revive the Crusades and bring back the Christian version of Sharia law.

 

[Tahuti]

So the wacky views of one MP in this particular matter is sufficient to condemn all ilberals?

But please. Do go right ahead and find "countless" more "examples" of liberals who hold views which are no stranger than those of their counterparts.

Read what I wrote: It's more accurate to say that significant portions of the left look away.

That's something different than 'universally', or whatever. It's not implausible that 'the left' will split into two competing schools: One that emphasises modern values such individualism and another one that seeks to pamper minorities who hold views seeking to destroy such.

Speaking of which, I'd love to read even more wacky homophobic and Islamophobic far-right authoritarian propaganda from the likes of Geert Wilders and others.

If Geert Wilders lived in the US, he would have been a Democrat. More precisely, a Bill Maher kind of liberal. He opposes Islam on Left-wing grounds and immigration for bringing Islam. The only traditionally right-wing viewpoint of him is his support of law & order viewpoints.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I edited the post and used your own hyperbole instead.

So pointing out the quite obvious propaganda campaign against Iran using a clearly terrible example is going to now cause liberals to "split" because they are clearly "pampering" evildoers?

How is Geert Wilders doing in that regard to conservatives in your own country? Or is that an obvious double standard which shouldn't be mentioned? What are you own views regarding him? Which side are you going to be on after the "split"?

 

[Tahuti]

How is Geert Wilders doing in that regard to conservatives in your own country? Or is that an obvious double standard which shouldn't be mentioned? What are you own views regarding him? Which side are you going to be on after the "split"?

We consider the VVD (Libertarian Conservatives) and CDA (Christian Democrats) to be proper conservatives. Because everyone believes Geert Wilders to be Far-Right - in part because of his own political blundering - he cannot possibly form a government. He makes a significant analytical error by oppossing Islam, instead of the macho mentality which is the true cause of the backwardness among minorities.

Frankly, I'd side for individualism.

 

[Formaldehyde]

We? You mean you personally consider them to be "proper conservatives"?

And you have yet to show even one liberal who sides with "pampering" clearly reprehensible acts. Even in the example above, Galloway was splitting hairs between persecution of homosexuals and those who engage in supposed sex crimes, even though that is apparently what does occur in Iran.

After all, Galloway didn't try to dismiss the matter entirely by claiming that persecuting so-called sex offenders with even death was perfectly acceptable. Now did he?

 

[PhroX]

Wait....did someone seriously point at George Galloway as a serious example of "the left"?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wait. You mean he isn't a "proper liberal"?

 

[PhroX]

He's a proper looney....