3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[FoxOfWar]

It's also stronger specifically because he played with a larger than normal map. standard setting would cap you at fewer CS allies. A game with UCS and on a huge map simply can't tell us anything meaningful about Austria balance.

Which why I mentioned all of that in the post. Just musing about the civ, heh. I think Austria is in a pretty good place overall.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Having recently played Indonesia, I have to say that their Uniques feel solid and impactful: from the Free Pincer on Melee Naval Units to the extra Yields to Water Tiles. Indonesia in VP doesn't really have any Coastal benefits from their Uniques otherwise.

 

[dylansan]

My hubby's been playing Indonesia while I occasionally watch. Neither of us realized the UI was available at sailing until after he reached the Renaissance... oof.

It doesn't show in the tech tree because there's already five things there, I guess.

He made good use of the Prau, though. The extra movement made exploring pretty fun. I will add that it doesn't seem like it should be as strong as a Trireme, but that's just my impression of the ship, not an assessment of balance. Though, since it comes earlier, he didn't run into many other units, if any, during his initial exploration. Even if they were weaker, they would generally be able to run from any dangerous fight, I'd imagine, while still being capable in war in groups thanks to Pincer. Just a thought.

 

[pineappledan]

Were you playing with the improvement recommendations off? the icon should have appeared, suggesting you improve your coast tiles. Oh well.

I had considered reducing the CS to 13. Not sure if it's necessary though. I also need to update the art for that unit.

In other news, the Steam mill is moving to 4UC, and VP is adding the White Tower as a main UNW, so we're trading places. Does anyone have any opinions on if/how we should modify the Steam Mill? I know there was some concern over the building being lackluster. I think some science wouldn't go amiss on it, myself

 

[amateurgamer88]

Not sure if this is a good idea or even a balanced one or not. I wonder if allowing each Steam Mill also produce 1 Iron can work. Naval Supremacy is a bit hard if you lack Iron so why not give England more options? Just throwing if out there and feel free to tell me if it's a bad idea.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I would say Steam Mill could use just 1 more ability to put on the level of the Public School UB's.

 

[pineappledan]

What about a 5% to conversion?

 

[amateurgamer88]

Does England really need more Science? With your spies, you should have caught up in techs or at least be able to focus on a certain path while stealing the rest.

 

[FoxOfWar]

How about a small-ish amount of on building or unit completion, sort of referencing the innovations of industrial revolution?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I would keep away from Science personally. The UA's Spy steals Techs ( Science ), the UB's current draft has a ton of Science per Spy action and another Spy to gather Science/techs with, if the UB has some Science as well it'll be too much. 5% into Science is like 5-10 per city somewhere around there, so it'd still not be very gamebreaking, but I feel like going for more Science is a bad idea. Any other yield would be better.

The problem with the Steam Mill is it's hard to make a very good idea with it. I don't think any yield but , or fits. Maybe , maybe some Great People points, but those are less convincing.

Maybe
5, 1/2 scaler (same)
4 for Manufactory/Coal (almost same, coal +1)
+2(or 3?) for every tile which contains a Luxury/Strategic resource you have a monopoly of.
No coal cost

This way it'd be pretty strong. Different enough from Waag, because it applies to the tiles. I don't know if it's possible or still too same-ish, but I don't think much interesting can be done with this UB.

Alternatively, maybe something like X(X?)% of purchase cost is converted to in the city, X(X?)% of building/unit construction cost is converted to in the city which is pretty much what you suggested, but no Science. Science should probably be avoided.

Just throwing ideas around.

 

[Guynemer]

I think production to gold would make more sense, from both a balance standpoint and a history standpoint.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

How about a focus on Engineers? The Steam Mill already has 2 Engineer Slots and a +4 to Manufactories.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

How about a focus on Engineers? The Steam Mill already has 2 Engineer Slots and a +4 to Manufactories.

Grande Ecole already boosts Engineers though, and it also is industrial in the same row, but that'd be nice and make sense. The bonus Engineer that you can't and don't want to work in most cities would be better if the Engie was almost always worth working. Or if England had some mechanic like Riad has for Merchants (that works differently?) and provides GE points.

 

[pineappledan]

Maybe a small amount of science and GEng point on building completion?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I'm not sure about it. If the amount of the GE points is high it encourages not building buildings before Steam Mill (or sell building > rebuild if it'd work for this one), AI won't understand this and this is a far bigger problem than Progress' bonus (high, but you take this tree early - AI isn't missing out on much, yields didn't scale yet) or Industry opener (AI isn't missing out on much because this gold is generally not worth delaying stuff over at all) or Ironworks (that's one city, and you usually get it before the yields scale a second time). Science is also not well placed unless Gazebo turns White Tower to Culture, not Science as it is.

What I don't like is a heavy GE focus in this direction that pushes England further tall ever so slightly. I don't think that really fits when it could perhaps be done differently. Is it possible to do a Chaebol and give every Steam Mill +1 Great Engineer point for every Steam Mill in the game, and/or GE points to Manufactories?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

The reason I suggest Engineers is because Coastal Cities can often be Production starved and Engineers help with that. That and no Civ has an Engineer focus.

Would it be possible to give Great Engineer points on Trade Route Finish?

 

[XxPun12h3rxX]

What about using the steam mill (or i guess the art asset if the name is changed) as a unique replacement for the coal refinery? No civ has that, and theres a lot more to play with there.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Hi, I love what you guys have done with the extra components mod for VP, however, I'm having an issue converting the latest version v41 into an MPMP Modpack. Of all the mods I'm using, I was able to isolate it down to this mod, where I get a Runtime Error right after "adding Alticur to InGame.lua..." Is there any way you could help me out with this issue?

One guy wrote on my profile hat he have problem with MP.

 

[Minh Le]

The Tophet of Carthage does work. It doesnt give culture for unit purchasing.

 

[pineappledan]

The Carthage Tophet works perfectly in my game. I got the floaty text and everything.