3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[Enrico Swagolo]

There's a typo, the Kabuki says: "On construction, All guilds in the city are replaced with a unique Japanese guild."
All should be lower case. Also, it'd sound better as:

On construction, all guilds in the city are replaced with their unique Japanese guild equivalents.

Otherwise it implies that if you have three guilds, what you will get is a single one.

 

[pineappledan]

Disagree. Your language is too complex.
"On construction, any guilds in the city are replaced with unique Japanese guilds."

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Something's wrong with Kabuki's code - the icon is not there, and it no longer has any base Culture, only +5% remains.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

The culprit:

Spoiler :

--------------------------------
-- Building_YieldChanges
--------------------------------
INSERT INTO Building_YieldChanges
(BuildingType, YieldType, Yield)
SELECT ('BUILDING_JAPAN_KABUKI', 'YIELD_CULTURE', 5);

The SELECT should be VALUES.

 

[pineappledan]

Quit my Macedon game (I was bored and happiness is a slog)
Tested Japan's new guilds. They work. Haven't actually verrified that they are balanced, but all the triggers appear to work fine.

 

[Legen]

I'm running into problematic bugs that aren't related to the kabuki, I don't think I'll be able to test its balance in my current game. I'll be reinstalling the newest VP patch and the kabuki package, in case it was a bad install, and likely launch a new game.

I've triggered some generals before researching Acoustics, and some of the born GWAM somehow procced Monogatari and 300 tourism announcements. I don't know if they actually provided yields, as the announcement doesn't show how much I gained, same about the message log. I can confirm the procs working once a guild I was upgraded with kabuki, though, since I was keeping track of my golden age count when an artist was born.

 

[pineappledan]

Ahh. I need to put in something that silences the yields if it’s 0. Currently the code gives 0.1*BulbEffect*NumJapGuildOnEmpire, so if you have no guilds it will just multiply by 0, but still push the notification.

Since the musician’s bulb is a static amount, I need to kill that if there are no Gagaku guilds

Edit: It should be fixed now; I pushed a fix to github

 

[FoxOfWar]

Small thing I noticed.

Playing Celts, and Oppidum is very fun package of yields... it however says on description that it boosts pre-Industrial improvements, but Village is missing from the list. Oversight or intent?

 

[pineappledan]

Intended.

It doesn’t boost forts, UTIs or GPTIs either. Maybe I should just change that to “boosts most improvements”? Pre-industrial only excludes wells and the help text individually lists all the boosts anyways

 

[Bhawb]

Partway through a Greece playthrough. I haven't made it to Klepht yet but the Agora feels great. A bit of early culture is always appreciated, and the extra production and gold for diplomats allows you to pretty much seamlessly go from spamming tributes to being permanent allies.

In my current game I went back and forth demanding a bunch of tributes from two CSs next to each other, and then once I hit roughly medieval and was getting close to Statecraft's Trade Confederacy and was getting a lot of CS friends from quests I started buying Diplomats and pretty much immediately had 5 CS allies that I haven't lost since (mid-Renaissance atm), even with Austria trying their nonsense. With easier access to the combat bonus I've been able to deal with having two strong Renaissance neighbors (Austria and Arabia), and am currently slapping Arabia around despite their camel archers because my upgraded Hoplites have Cover I+II and 35% added CS.

I'll update once I get to Klephts, but my guess is they'll be very nice to have. By that time I'll have even more CS allies/friends to use the unique promotion with. Also, do both promotions stay with upgrade?

 

[FoxOfWar]

Intended.

It doesn’t boost forts, UTIs or GPTIs either. Maybe I should just change that to “boosts most improvements”? Pre-industrial only excludes wells and the help text individually lists all the boosts anyways

Yeah, that makes sense so it isn't misleading. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[pineappledan]

New version is almost ready. Need to do some little tweaks and edit the changelog.
I fixed the Ethiopian Monolithic church bug. It was a problem with how the belief improvement system works. The mono church is now technically 2 different improvements, which means that MonoChurches on stone don't block Monochurches on adjacent hills and vice versa.

Still not happy with the Pogost stage 2. I've come up with some options:

1. 1 specialist in the city does not produce urbanization
2. 1 from Villages (stacking with the 1 to villages from stage 1)
3. 1 from Villages (stacking with the 1 to villages from stage 1)
4. 11 from Constabulary and Workshop in City
5. something else

What do people think? I'm leaning towards option 3 right now, because it doesn't cross over with the 1 on strategics from the Ostrog

 

[FoxOfWar]

Any of the options sound fine to me, though been a while since I hit Russia in a game.

 

[Guynemer]

I think 3 or 1 sound best.

 

[pineappledan]

prospective v45 changelog:

- tweaked/modified:
- Slaganz ==> Now named Ulfhedinn. Barbarian Alliance renamed to Druhtiz
- Holkan ==> increased CS to 7
- Bastu ==> Increased yield from birth to 25%. Yields from Tundra now 1 per 2 tiles
- Landwehr ==> Regimentsmarsche culture increased to 2
- Schutzenstand ==> Lowered HP in city to 150 and increased supply from population to 25%
- Kabuki ==> removed yields on empire from unique guilds. Replaced with instant bulb effect on GWAM birth
- Tophet ==> reduced faith yield to +2. Increased culture from unit purchase to 20
- Shotelai ==> increased Shotel debuff effect to -2 movement (minimum of 0.16667)
- Pogost ==> Stage 2 now +1 Prod to Villages. No specialist unhappiness urbanization reduction
- fixed:
- Monolithic Church ==> Now works as intended

@adan_eslavo, I think we are ready for you to come in and review

 

[Zakuzelo]

I question halving the Bastu's tundra science for a few reasons.

1. Tundra sucks. You can make it work, but it's always going to be worse than temperate land. A boost this strong is fine when it's on tiles that are weaker by default. And on that note, a city working lots of tundra is going to grow slower for it, meaning less bulbs of science/culture from the other effect. Seems balanced enough.
   
2. It's Sweden's only economic boost until Industrial. Late Industrial at that, assuming you're bee-lining towards your UUs. It's important that it be strong.
   
3. It's a replacement for a building that Sweden normally wouldn't prioritize. How many temples, gardens, and amphitheaters are you building as Sweden? How many golden ages are you getting? The unique aspects of the Bastu are the only things Sweden really cares about, so they'd better be good.
   
4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Sweden still has a mild tundra start bias. The Bastu is the only thing taking advantage of that, which is important when it's otherwise a pretty straight disadvantage, especially for a warmonger.

 

[pineappledan]

I question halving the Bastu's tundra science for a few reasons.

1. Tundra sucks. You can make it work, but it's always going to be worse than temperate land. A boost this strong is fine when it's on tiles that are weaker by default. And on that note, a city working lots of tundra is going to grow slower for it, meaning less bulbs of science/culture from the other effect. Seems balanced enough.
   
2. It's Sweden's only economic boost until Industrial. Late Industrial at that, assuming you're bee-lining towards your UUs. It's important that it be strong.
   
3. It's a replacement for a building that Sweden normally wouldn't prioritize. How many temples, gardens, and amphitheaters are you building as Sweden? How many golden ages are you getting? The unique aspects of the Bastu are the only things Sweden really cares about, so they'd better be good.
   
4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Sweden still has a mild tundra start bias. The Bastu is the only thing taking advantage of that, which is important when it's otherwise a pretty straight disadvantage, especially for a warmonger.

1. So am I to understand that question having the tundra science reduced? It sounds like your points are about that, while your header seems to question the tundra science existing at all. If you settle in/near tundra there must be something up there that makes you want to make it work. Perhaps there is lots of deer, or high-value resources up there. I'm not concerned with balancing lower growth against bonuses on growth because players can make that call themselves
2. The 25% boost is the same amount as the university, and you get it on 2 yield types. It is strong already. building this will not get in the way of your UU or anything, and Sweden has relied on its powerful UA almost entirely without 4UC. Giving Sweden an earlier boost is nice, but it was never imperative that we do it in order to 'fix' Sweden. Also, the Skola is early Industrial, not late
3. Depends on if you like to neglect culture I suppose. I don't, and Gustavus has a fairly decent culture game providing he can at least keep up until Industrial.
4. Sweden doesn't have a tundra bias. It was removed

 

[Moi Magnus]

prospective v45 changelog:

- tweaked/modified:
- Slaganz ==> Now named Ulfhedinn. Barbarian Alliance renamed to Druhtiz
- Holkan ==> increased CS to 7
- Bastu ==> Increased yield from birth to 25%. Yields from Tundra now 1 per 2 tiles
- Landwehr ==> Regimentsmarsche culture increased to 2
- Schutzenstand ==> Lowered HP in city to 150 and increased supply from population to 25%
- Kabuki ==> removed yields on empire from unique guilds. Replaced with instant bulb effect on GWAM birth
- Tophet ==> reduced faith yield to +2. Increased culture from unit purchase to 20
- Shotelai ==> increased Shotel debuff effect to -2 movement (minimum of 0.16667)
- Pogost ==> Stage 2 now +1 Prod to Villages. No specialist unhappiness urbanization reduction
- fixed:
- Monolithic Church ==> Now works as intended

@adan_eslavo, I think we are ready for you to come in and review

Is the new version coming thie week end? Or should I create Magnus Mutatio with current version and update it latter?
Anyway, thanks for maintaining this huge mod up to date.

 

[pineappledan]

here's an unofficial release, zipped and ready to go. AE hasn't responded, but assuming everything is okay then thre shouldn't be any changes from the one posted.

 

[Zakuzelo]

1. So am I to understand that question having the tundra science reduced? It sounds like your points are about that, while your header seems to question the tundra science existing at all. If you settle in/near tundra there must be something up there that makes you want to make it work. Perhaps there is lots of deer, or high-value resources up there. I'm not concerned with balancing lower growth against bonuses on growth because players can make that call themselves
2. The 25% boost is the same amount as the university, and you get it on 2 yield types. It is strong already. building this will not get in the way of your UU or anything, and Sweden has relied on its powerful UA almost entirely without 4UC. Giving Sweden an earlier boost is nice, but it was never imperative that we do it in order to 'fix' Sweden. Also, the Skola is early Industrial, not late
3. Depends on if you like to neglect culture I suppose. I don't, and Gustavus has a fairly decent culture game providing he can at least keep up until Industrial.
4. Sweden doesn't have a tundra bias. It was removed

1. Halving, not having. As in cutting the science in half, reducing it from from 1-per-tile to 1-per-two-tiles. As the tiles are weak by default, there's no need.
2. Fair enough.
   
3. Sweden has a completely ordinary culture game until Skolas. No bonuses at all. Unless you mean via Authority, but in that case you'll be building units and barracks, not amphitheaters and gardens.
4. Could of fooled me, but alright. Noted.