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[BTS] A good start ?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Shikhar Agrawal, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Wanted to see how much I learn by starting a parallel new game , I'm Isabella , pangea and everything else random , everyone says coastal starts are bad but with this much resources and fishing as starter , thought it will be good map
    Spoiler :

    IMG_20201020_154726.png
     
  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    IMO a pretty weak start even for a fishing starter, especially on pangaea. I'd say SIP would be a significant mistake as it kills fish and doesn't allow any :food:-sharing. 2E is something like the only move (doesn't kill fish, extra :hammers: city center). Need to start with a boat, mining-BW (mine pigs, chop, whip).
     
  3. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Ok will just roll another map , just wanted to know if this is a good start or not
     
  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yep...nuthin special about that start at all
     
  5. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Can you post the Turn 0 4000 BC of that map if possible? I'd like to play it
     
  6. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Sure ,
     

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  7. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Depends..i usually play weak starts so i would happily take this one. Well above average for my map standards.
    2 very strong food cities, Izzy's weak starting techs not that important and easy barb defense.
    Would be better with another plains hill forest for quicker workboats.
     
  8. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    I'm just a newbie and so will prefer strong a start for now , maybe play after learning a bit or two
     
  9. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    How do you change the difficulty of a map at 4000 BC? If I play this map, how do I change it from Prince to Immortal for example?
     
  10. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    You do shenanigans with world builder and creating a scenario file. There's a list of instructions in the bullpen topic.
     
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  11. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    I don't think you should stick with easier starts - just make sure the difficulty level is appropriate. Otherwise you'll get too used to stuff like corn/wheat/gold/stone and have no idea how to deal with work boats, pastures, camps or calendar resources. I actually think this is a good learning start because there's a pretty clear cut path. So you'd get clear right/wrong feedback instead of 3 different recommendations based on playstyle and philosophy.
     
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  12. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Also... if you get advice from experienced players, noble (edit: oh it's prince, well, no big difference) is an absolute joke of a difficulty level. Judging from your other thread, you could start playing say emperor. It doesn't matter if you lose, just focus on learning the game and enjoying the process.
     
  13. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Good chance of horses or copper hidden on the suspiciously unforested tile. Could end up being anything from an easy to a hard map depending on what sort of land (and neighbors) you find further west. It's not a starting location that jumps out and says "yes, no matter what else I find this game will be easier because I'm going to be 5 turns ahead of normal by turn 30."
     
  14. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    There was horse nearby forget where do
     
  15. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Most map scripts like to put forests in clusters, without random clearings in the middle of the forest. But most resources can't start the game with forests on top of them. So when you see a bunch of forest all around and a random single non-forested tile in the middle, it's probably a hidden resource. Horse, copper, iron, something like that. When that non-forested tile is in the BFC of the default capital, it tends to be horse or copper; this has to do with how the game selects starting locations for players and tries to put them near horse or copper.

    So as I said, that tile one south of the pigs is a very suspiciously unforested tile - "why doesn't this tile have a forest on it?" Probably because it had horses or copper; if you say there was horses nearby, I'm guessing it was that tile.
     
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  16. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Here you go, 50 turns :
    Spoiler :
    No reason not to settle in place : Isabella is expansive and grabs the 3H hill with first border pop. Settling 2E on the plains hills doesn't speed up the first worker and loses too much production, long term.
    Mining -> Bronze. Then Sailing, Agriculture, Wheel, Pottery.
    Worker first. Mine the pigs, chop, chop, farm the wheat, chop, head north.
    Capital goes workboat, workboat after the worker. Grows to size 3 : settler (don't finish your builds before starting a settler : aim for a size to grow onto and start at that size). Grow to size 4, whip settler (asap, i.e. after 40 hammers are invested). Regrow on Lighthouse, prepare a 2pop whip at size 4 with max overflow into Granary (insta build).

    Spoiler :


    Why go north ? That's why :


    This is an important spot to claim, since it secures so many resources (and commerce, and happiness). You can then backfill copper/fish/clam and clam/clam.
    There are manyy ways to go on with this game. The most conventional would be to tech up, since it's a valid strategy nol matter the difficulty you play on. In that regard, it would make a lot of sense to have a go at the Great Lighthouse, next (Masonry).
     
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  17. Shikhar Agrawal

    Shikhar Agrawal Chieftain

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    Played it was similar to yours , your second city in exactly same stop that I settle , map also turned out quite fun.
     
  18. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Good one, BIC. :lol: 2E gains a good extra city spot, which is already clear T0. Losing too much production long term is also a brilliant point. What is slavery even? :smoke:
     
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  19. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Well guess I've been proven wrong about the start being free from controversy :lol: I think killing fish is a crime. And there's too much food showing to not plan to share some of it. And at t0 there's additional potential for killing seafood on a whopping 6 water tiles. You could scout that first with the warrior, but it's the wrong direction and puts him 2 turns behind scouting overall. There's zero benefit from the fresh water bonus given we're EXP and have multiple health resources showing. Would rather cottage the one wet grassland tile we get. The point about EXP worker and the 3:hammers: is fair, and it sure is unfortunate that if we settle 2E we start working a lousy 2:food:1:hammers:. But there's nothing for a SIP fast exp worker to do. After you mine the pigs the worker is idle til BW. Nothing really screams GLH to me either, no IND, no chance of overseas TR, no benefit from masonry, not a lot of raw :hammers:.
     
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  20. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    You may be right, Drew, and thank you for making a proper argument, but it's closer than you think. Killing the 2nd fish means Madrid loses 2H/turn when building settlers. Does it hurt ? Yes, it hurts a bit.
    Losing a resource ? Opening an extra city slot ? Come on, there's a whole map. Plus, you start on a peninsula, how many cities do you wanna plant, there ?
    Escaping is more important than maximizing the space. The PH and extra fish give a slightly faster expansion but the need for an extra settler and an extra workboat means you get out later. It also delays the infrastructure in Madrid (Granary, Lighthouse).
    Arguably, a Lighthouse in Madrid gives you the same returns as an extra city.
    SIP : has 3 more forests and 2 more hills. Fair enough, maybe you don't want to build the GLH. In that case, maybe you do want to Oracle Monarchy, no ? Well, then, it would prove useful to have some natural hammers in that city.

    Many people on these boards tend to say : "there's only so much food that you can use in your capital". And I tend to disagree. Well, here's an exception.
     
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