A New Dawn Bug Reports and Feedback

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PS. Wait... you BRIBED a civ to go at war with them?? And you are complaining because THEY declared war on YOU!? Does those two sentances make any sense to you? It is called Better AI for a reason! You now get a message when a civ bribes another civ to go at war with you, so they know that now.



AFTER THEY DECLARED WAR ON ME FIRST!!!!!!11


And I'm not changing my civics to backward-ass things like "throw garbage anywhere" or "despotism" or "feudal" just to appease someone who will declare war on me anyway
 
If you are not willing to pursue a diplomatic solution, the only way out of it is through force. Build spearmen/pikemen/Infantry/Titans. Build Artillery and siege. Build fighters and bombers. Don't stop until your strength ratio is higher than them. And then continue... destroy thier nation, and the next, and the next. Obviously if diplomacy fails, then the only solution is war.

(There might be a third option the AP / UN. But you need to be pretty popular with everyone else for that to work. Oh, and BTW, 'You sent in a war ally against us' is a -2 hit. Trade Embargoes are a -1 hit. For obvious realism reasons)
 
if you are not willing to pursue a diplomatic solution, the only way out of it is through force. Build spearmen/pikemen/infantry/titans. Build artillery and siege. Build fighters and bombers. Don't stop until your strength ratio is higher than them. And then continue... Destroy thier nation, and the next, and the next. Obviously if diplomacy fails, then the only solution is war.

(there might be a third option the ap / un. But you need to be pretty popular with everyone else for that to work. Oh, and btw, 'you sent in a war ally against us' is a -2 hit. Trade embargoes are a -1 hit. For obvious realism reasons)



there is no diplomatic option. They decide to declare war on me for no reason, build up a huge army over 50 turns or whatever, then declare war on me, unaffected by anything i do, including trade, similar civics, anything and everything.

Essentially, the "Total War" method of AI diplomacy. Which is to say, almost no diplomacy at all.
 
Who is declaring war on you? Some AI are more likely to declare war on you than others.

Anyway, regardless, power is EVERYTHING. If you have high power, no-one will dare touch you (and if they do, they will be alone, so you can CRUSH THEM). If you have low power, everyone will see you as a punching bag, only useful for stemming revolutions.

It was true in BtS, it is more true in RoM, and AND. Put it this way... if they capture 3 of your cities, every city which was just in DANGER will now be SAFE. SAFE cities never form rebels. DANGER ones are the ones that start rebellions. Which one would you rather have?

Conversly, if the person you bribed destroys 3 cities (unlikely for bribery, but if they were already planning it, then they will) then every city which was SAFE will now be WARNING, or, if it had some revolutionary sentiment before the cities were taken, it will now be DANGER. I have wiped out two civilisations using that trick... take out 3-4 cities in the opening moves, and watch as they either capitualate the next turn, or thier own people rise up against them. It is fun!!)

In short, you have two options. If you choose to build few military units (your choice), and rely on diplomacy to protect you, expect to lose alot of cities, and only get them back after your citizens in captured cities fight back. But it is difficult, and you still need a standing army of at least a quarter of the strength of the strongest enemies army or else your closest friends WILL declare war on you, to gain diplo bonuses with other AI.

The AI is smarter. It isn't singling you out, however it is seeing you as the weakest link. The old tricks you used to keep them at bay no longer work, because the AI sees through them, and it now WANTS TO WIN. Better AI is better... adjust, or tone down the difficulty a little.

[Edit]Diplomacy is still important. With poor diplomacy, you cannot trade, you cannot gain trade resources, you cannot get war allies, you cannot gain technologies, you cannot spread your religion, you cannot expect thier support for the UN and AP, and most furious civs (and some hyper-aggressive and suicidal Annoyed civs) will almost always declare war on you every chance you get (generally, regardless of your strength). However, you need to combine your current diplomatic skills with a strong military! You can't win the game with just one starting warrior any more![/Edit]
 
there is no diplomatic option. They decide to declare war on me for no reason, build up a huge army over 50 turns or whatever, then declare war on me, unaffected by anything i do, including trade, similar civics, anything and everything.

Essentially, the "Total War" method of AI diplomacy. Which is to say, almost no diplomacy at all.
I think this is more of a rant against the BtS AI then AND.
The BtS AI does like to go to war a lot.
 
Valeria Messalina of Rome. A custom leaderhead, but I copied some of the leaderhead stats from... someone. I don't remember who. Either Caligula or Marcus Aurelius.
 
no horses. No horses anywhere in my lands, anywhere in any of my allies' lands. No horses for trade.

get better units and get archery units with drill line, a single longbowman with drill iv can hold off legions of warriors when fortified in a city, also defensive builds are very useful! Unit spam is good because it ups your strength ratio
 
get better units and get archery units with drill line, a single longbowman with drill iv can hold off legions of warriors when fortified in a city, also defensive builds are very useful! Unit spam is good because it ups your strength ratio



that's exactly what i do. It makes no difference when they spam siege units and cause splash damage
 
Seige units are more useful than archers, IMO. Grab two archers per city (Either longbows or xbows), tons of offensive units (Xbows / Macemen / Elephants), and about the same number of seige (In RoM and AND, trebs are better on ground than catapults, at least in 1.72, so always get as many of the best seige you can get). So you should have a roaming defensive stack of around 15-ish offensive units, 15-ish seige units in the medival era (probably more, definatly NOT less), and, if you have the Great Commanders game option set (It is off by default), a Great General sitting around un-attached gives a massive strength boost for your siege on offense, and a massive strength boost for your Drill II-IV XBows / Macemen against seige units on the defence. But even when defending, you should be on the offense (In BtS, combat is laughably skewed to the attacker, with seige units, everything becomes about 10 times weaker, so the defenders 'bonus' of choosing the best defender becomes a moot point). So don't just sit in your cities... COUNTER-ATTACK!

General guide: If you are not paying for any military units, you don't have enough.

A save-game and a log file would help us help you MASSIVELY, but this is not actually a bug... you can start up a new thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=355 or here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=369 . So we should probably move this discussion somewhere else.
 
Please see my big post about 4 posts up. We want to help, please don't post tactical discussions in the bug thread :P

Finally, you shouldn't be letting those seige units attack... when they attack, it is game over, man. Historically, sieges always won if the defenders just sat on thier backsides and tried to wait out the attackers. And that is what sitting around while defences are being bombarded represents! Counter-attack, send in waves of horses (if you can), but if you have no horses, send in a horde of catapults, trebuchets, axes, swordsmen, macemen, pikemen, elephants and crossbows! Attack that stack which is attacking your city BEFORE it attacks your city!
 
Please see my big post about 4 posts up. We want to help, please don't post tactical discussions in the bug thread :P

Finally, you shouldn't be letting those seige units attack... when they attack, it is game over, man. Historically, sieges always won if the defenders just sat on thier backsides and tried to wait out the attackers. And that is what sitting around while defences are being bombarded represents! Counter-attack, send in waves of horses (if you can), but if you have no horses, send in a horde of catapults, trebuchets, axes, swordsmen, macemen, pikemen, elephants and crossbows! Attack that stack which is attacking your city BEFORE it attacks your city!



If the chances of my attacks succeeding were greater than 30-50%, I WOULD NOT BE COMPLAINING SO LOUDLY ABOUT THIS
 
=)))))))))))))))))

On my initial complaint - this is going to be one of best games i had in half of year i think (giant, snail, deity, unusable mountains, all victories except cultural, ruthless ai). I slowly made it out, raising 2 super GC's with tons of promotions and stack of around 15 well-trained archers (later to be xbowmen) mixed with 3 spearmen, each having 300-400 exp. I later in game accompanied them with 10-12 hwachas. With promotions GC's give siege gets 100% survival rate, so they safely bombard every stack. I kept those 2 generals on upper and bottom left corners of my square-like empire (from right there was sea), moving back and forth as needed, counterattacking incoming stacks. After AI's stopped all wardeccing me and decided to take care of each other i could breath a little.

But another problem at that point was that i was in middle of score rating list, had 6 cities of 2-4 pop size while most civs had 10-12, runaway leader had 23 cities (on small continent south of main one (can cross on galleys), and 2 behind him had 17-18. Economy was in deep ass, religion i got (from tribal hut tech) was kemetism with super GP Karnak something wonder, giving culture instead of $$$. Only 2 wonders - pyramids and chichen itza (+2 kemetism wonders), side note - nice to see pyramids built in holy kemetism city :). No iron/copper/horse in my empire, not a single fish resource, science slider is at 10-20%... Power ratio is 0.0 to Rome, 0.1 to 3 other civs, and 0.2-0.3 to rest ...

I was on verge of giving up and starting new game but decided to keep playing and see how things gonna turn out.

Well, at least i have my superhero archers (only 1 spearmen got Led by WArlord promotion tho) and 2GC's and 10 generals in capital. With aztecs still being at war i sweep army thru their whole empire, razing all but 2 last cities, got some techs and more important, cleared that direction from possible settlements thus attack danger. Then attack south on 2nd in power malinese, who got 3 cities close to my border but far from his main land. Killing his new toy crossbowmen with my archers :). Cleaning some space again, settling few cities around expanding out a bit, and finally getting iron access. Putting all research now to Machinery->Engineering, switching half cities to research, squeezing all i can (getting 200-230 bulbs/turn (snail)). Rome comes to me twice presenting me for free Vassalage and later Agricultural tools. Getting lots of techs automatically as being acquired by most of civs is nice but it also means you are backward Bangladesh-like civilization.

Rome, who has 30ish cities now (i think he ate netherlands, america, somebody else by that time, and vassalized china (3rd in power)) declares war on mansa musa (2nd in power). I have like 11 cities atm. I decide it's time to fast go and grab upper right corner of map (arabia 6 cities there, abyssinia 4 cities and hammurabi vassal of arabia 2). Weak armies, so it doesn't take long i capture them all as they capitulate having 1-2 cities left. I now have 19 cities, Rome 36, builds almost all wonder and is skyrocketing his score and GNP. 2 other are Mansa (18 cities) and Stalin (17), rest of civs are either vassaled or 1-5 cities beating boys.

Rome also declares war on Stalin. While im outside of conflict i quickly attack malinese and grab 3 closest cities and make peace.

Soon after Rome declares war on me (while being at war with both others. 39 cities rome, 25 me at begin of war. I begin by taking closest chinese unprotected cities, and finally i see what supposed to be Rome main stack - 50-60 stack of mailed knights/heavy swords/trebuchets coming from my side (i moved bit forward)(luckily trebs arrived on 2nd wave). I have just enough time to move my main stack back into city they aim to attack, and reinforce it with few additional troops. Still i have like 15 xbowmen/5 pikemen-macemen and 10 hwachas against their stack. But i got great great GC :). It takes 5-6 turns to crunch their stack (they reinforcing it with new troops, but my sieges with 100% survival (GC's promos + they all got Local lord promotions long ago)) dont let them raise their head, even with 10% hps they still can attack and survive. And rest of army all have march so next turn they are fresh. When this stack dies i begin rolling on their freshly conquered cities protected by 1-4 troops all way back. When i ended game yesterday i had 41 city, they had 33, power ratio was still 0.2 (i havent built anything, working on my infrastructure). On last turn i ate another medium stack of 30ish mailed knights. He has around 7-8 cities left on main land, his Wonders and Holy cities are on other continent ... no chance of crossing as he has like 40-60 fluyts.

Tbh, i expected much worse from my previous experience with stacks of doom. I thought i would be seeing something like 250 cavalry/horse archers mix, but looks like he built lots of ships, and divided his army into few parts. Oh, and his main stack didn't had GC with them. If it had i would have had lots of trouble.

In the middle of this war i finally began GA, switched civics and built couple wonders. Got lots of techs from his cities.

Thinking now whether to make peace and focus on building GNP/production up or continue and grab as much land/cities as possible. Im only half of his GNP now (was 15%) and 40% population with 1.5 size of his land. He is 5-10 techs ahead, i'm beelining for matchlock. He built literally ALL guilds (except one of two other civs built, i havent got single one). Production without mason or blacksmith guilds sucks balls ... half of empire not state religion, stoneworkers hut and wheelwright outdated ... many captured cities are on desert border or after 2-3 recaptures, meaning most buildings razed.

Had few funny moments:
1) When Rome offered 2370 gold and tech (not outdated) for single hwacha
2) last turn when i 3-4 times killed everything he put in city, leaving 3 units he finally moved ALL troops out of city somewhere else, not wanting to lose single unit. That impressed me much.
3) After capturing one china town in fog of war bug (it got razed as it had 1 pop), my archer somehow captured 11 hwachas ... they had zero promotions, but still ... Also donno if it's another kind of bug i noticed, whether i capture enemy catapult they were automatically converted to hwacha.
 
Ok some AI feedback now: I played as Hittie on earth map and when I tried to invade North America, I had an interesting meeting with their main stack. Can't really say it wasn't small... 26 wardogs, 61 swordsmen, 18 pikes, 39 longbows, 20 crossbows, 29 catapults, 13 trebuchets and a few macemen...

213 units in the SOD!!!

Don't forget I already killed like 30 units before the main stack came...

Spoiler :
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Too bad AI doesn't know when to make peace and when not. I usually attack, take a few cities, make peace before their main stack gathered in front of my force and when it comes I make peace and reinforce... I suggest AI should "know" sometimes not to make peace even after for example losing up to 5 cities as long as their main stack is still 50% strong...

P.S one small bug: when facing large stacks I can't see the top of the stack cause the science slider covers it. Can the screening maybe be adjusted to avoid that?
 
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