A Wild Union Appears! QANTAS Uses Selfdestruct!

I never understand when people like pilots and air traffic controllers strike for better pay. These are probably the two most overpaid professions in the world (outside the insane world of finance). I'd tell the to STFU and if they quit, hire pilots from abroad. Problem solved.

Believe it or not pilots typically don't make much money. Hard to believe I know but normally they only fly less then 20 hours per week (at least in the US the number of hours spent flying is limited by the FTA to prevent pilots from becoming too tired while flying) plus around 10-15 hours of paid ground time. Typically they also have to spend half or more nights per week away from home which gets old fast. It's not unusual for nonunion airlines to only pay their pilots $25,000-$40,000 per year depending on experience and that's not much given that the training costs over $80,000 just for the certifications and not counting the cost of a bachelor's degree (which is required to actually get hired).

I know two people who work for regional airlines (not the big national carriers) and both have to have second jobs just to make ends meet. Your average pilot just doesn't make much so it's something you do because you love the job not because you're after money.
 
Update:

Fair Work has terminated all the industrial action and the bargaining process, which has the effect of having Qantas back into the air, and has given the two parties 21 days to reach settlement.

Unless a settlement is reached or unless arbitration is more generous to workers than it has typically been under the Howard/Gillard IR system, Qantas has basically won this by securing termination of the dispute rather than a suspension. They were able to force government involvement and get the matter terminated and bought to arbitration, rather than having FWA merely suspend the action and order them back to the table for longer.

And it arguably sets a bad precedent for other major companies who can try to force a termination of negotiation and get a dispute sent to arbitration instead (Although not many companies have the ability to hold a continent hostage like Qantas can).

If a union had grounded an entire airline like this it would never have been rewarded in such a manner.
 
Update:

Fair Work has ordered Qantas back into the air and given the two parties 21 days to reach settlement.

Unless a settlement is reached or unless arbitration is more generous to workers than it has typically been under the Howard/Gillard IR system, Qantas has basically won this by securing termination of the dispute rather than a suspension. They were able to force government involvement and get the matter terminated and bought to arbitration, rather than having FWA merely suspend the action and order them back to the table for longer.

If a union had grounded an entire airline like this it would never have been rewarded in such a manner.

Isn't that a co-inky-dinky...the elected officials seem to side with the businesses over the unions. Does Australia have the same campaign-donor problem we have in the United States? :p
 
Unelected officials made the call, actually. The government could have gone in harder with how it prosecuted the Fair Work case from what I understand (and specifically sought suspension rather than termination, thus avoiding the arbitration threat that now exists as negotiations continue over the next 3 weeks), but it was the independent industrial relations umpire which made the call, and it may have done so even with a stronger government push for suspension and continued bargaining.

So much for a union-controlled Labor Party I guess.
 
Unelected officials made the call, actually. The government could have gone in harder with how it prosecuted the Fair Work case from what I understand (and specifically sought suspension rather than termination, thus avoiding the arbitration threat that now exists as negotiations continue over the next 3 weeks), but it was the independent industrial relations umpire which made the call, and it may have done so even with a stronger government push for suspension and continued bargaining.

So much for a union-controlled Labor Party I guess.

Shows how much I know about Australian politics. :p
 
Isn't QANTAS an independent company though? Why should it be disallowed from outsourcing (not saying it's good, but just... why?)?

Its perfect safety record ? (no deaths or air plane crashes)
Most people are worried about cost cutting for aircraft maintance, quality and trainning of all workers employees.

Whats happening is that its cheaper to do aircraft maintance overseas because of cutting corners and lower quality of the workers. All it will take is one aircraft accident resulting in death and that will be the end of Qantas reputation. Which is insane given how long its taken to build up.
 
Pilots don't make a lot of money. You're thinking of Captains who fly for the majors. ATC doesn't make a lot of money either. They work rotating shifts, and pay has been cut up to 40% in the last few years. A lot of guys retiring have been making the big bucks, but the new guys coming in have a totally different pay scale because of cutbacks.

A first year pilot at a regional probably makes like $20k, if that. With so many hopefuls in the industry they have undercut themselves to very low pay. I know flight instructors who can't even break even teaching, so they decided to go to ATC.

Also, pilots do not get paid for "downtime", and only get paid for the hours they are scheduled to fly. A 12 hour shift might only work itself out to a 8 hour flight.
 
This post on Slashdot gave a view more favourable to the management. How valid it is I don't know.

Qantas employees generally already have higher pay and better conditions than equivalent positions at other domestic carriers (Virgin, Jetstar, Tiger) - and FAR more than carriers in almost any foreign country that you could name. Also, Alan Joyce, though just given a $1.5M raise, voluntarily took a $7M/year pay cut previously. So he's just regaining some of what he previously lost (not that that justifies anything, just pointing it out).

AJ is a bit of a dick, but Qantas really is between a rock and a hard place. Or more accurately, Qantas International (the domestic arm is doing fine). QF international is losing money hand over fist through no real fault of their own. The problems are:

1. Geography: Australia is a terminus when it comes to air travel. You don't travel 'through' Australia to get to anywhere else. So you don't have the advantages of being based in a hub, like places in the Middle East or Asia, which can attract substantial traffic from within their catchment area and ALSO a lot of transit traffic (people just passing through in transit to other locations). Australia is the 'end of the road' so to speak, which makes their potential market much smaller.

2. Australia has an open skies policy these days, which has allowed the likes of Singapore Airlines, Qatar, Emirates, Malaysian Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Etihad to operate Australian services. These are airlines that already have the inherent advantages of being based in hub locations (thus are not as reliant on origin-and-departure traffic as Qantas is). They are also airlines that, due to being based in locations with much lower wages than Australia, have costs in the order of HALF what Qantas has, to operate the same flights. Qantas tickets are therefore more expensive. And as a result, noone buys them - Qantas now has only 20% market share for international flights to/from Australia (and falling).

So, QF international is losing money. Their successful domestic arm has been subsidising it, but that can only continue for so long. So what's the solution? They can either start basing at least some of their core maintenance and piloting operations from a hub somewhere in Asia (Singapore, HK etc.) ... or go out of business. This is what Alan Joyce announced earlier this year as a plan to save QF International - moving some operations offshore and creating a new premium airline in Asia. The unions oppose it - they obviously don't want jobs to be lost within Australia, nor do they want their members to miss out on pay or entitlements. Fair enough, from their perspective.

But what would you have Qantas do? They have no choice - if QF International is to survive at all, they MUST significantly reduce their cost base. That would be impossible to do while keeping all existing jobs in Australia. And even more impossible to do if the unions force them to pay even more. They are competing against foreign carriers whose costs are half as much, remember. What a sad thing it would be if Qantas - the second oldest continuously operating international airline in the world - was forced to close its doors.

There really are two sides to this story - the vilification in the media of Qantas as being greedy, un-Australian etc etc. is to some extent unjustified, as they are really running out of options, and noone can force them to keep operating their international arm at a loss.
 
Yeah a lot of that is disinformation. Qantas staff are well paid because of a commitment to perhaps excessive excellence. Qantas acts like it doesn't get anything for the higher pay, when really it does. Branding and reputation that is in the process of being trashed, of course.

And Qantas' market share being low is its own fault for consciously withdrawing from international routes. Qantas consciously chose to make itself largely irrelevant to inbound tourism. Going back to a blog post I quoted earlier:

It is important not to allow history to be rewritten by Qantas in relation to the rise of its foreign competitors. They didn’t force Qantas off routes to what have now become enormously important ‘secondary’ cities in Europe, or the more recently emerging routes to central Asia, northern Africa or ex Soviet era eastern Europe.

Qantas failed serve those routes, except via London, and its competitors filled the gap. If Emirates and Thai International and Singapore Airlines in particular had not demonstrated business acumen in flying one-stop to those destinations from Australia, the really valuable contribution Germany and the continent in general makes to Australian tourism would not have occurred as quickly or efficiently.

If it's losing money now (which it isn't, it turned a profit in its most recent statements), it's because of the high Australian dollar and fuel costs for its relatively inefficient aircraft making it unattractive for long haul flights. Can't blame teh unions for either of those, and they'd still be a problem even if Qantas forced its labour costs down a few percentage points.
 
Do you mean Qantas international flights turned a profit, or Qantas as a whole?
 
I flew Qantas return to London last year, because the only cheaper option at the time was Etihad, and the UAE was looking really shaky at the time (didn't know if the airline would still exist when the flights were). But it is a general rule that Qantas is more expensive. If you want the cheaper options you go Cathay, China, Virgin Atlantic or United (the quality difference is supposedly only marginal, though, so it depends how much you prize it). But people making such large purchasing decisions as international flights from Australia aren't going to be as worried about an extra $100-200 on their ticket if quality and reliability are there. And that's why this action by Qantas is so damaging. If you're forking out close to $2000 for a ticket, you want to know that you're actually going to be able to take the flight. People will choose Singapore, Malaysian, Emirates or Lufthansa if they want quality without that kind of risk. Currently I would not consider buying a Qantas ticket, because there are other options available. On quality, as I think Arwon pointed out, over the past few years Qantas planes started to get a tendency to break apart mid-flight, and this coincided with offshoring engineering (if I remember the post correctly). This is another consideration people take into account when there is competition at a comparable price.

Domestically, people do not choose Qantas for price, because it isn't a budget airline. That's what Jetstar is for. Again there is a reliance on quality and reliability that is taken away by treating staff badly and by grounding flights. I don't see how Qantas is doing themselves any favours through their actions.
 
(It was Masada actually)
 
On quality, as I think Arwon pointed out, over the past few years Qantas planes started to get a tendency to break apart mid-flight, and this coincided with offshoring engineering (if I remember the post correctly). This is another consideration people take into account when there is competition at a comparable price.

Wait, what?

That's not just "another consideration"! :eek:
 
Luckily the "world's best pilots" were there to avert disaster.
 
Also, pilot training is quite expensive, I believe.

Yes, that + the cost of a bachelor's degree to get your foot in the door. A private pilots license altogether (classes, flight time, instructor) could be in the neighborhood of $8k-12k, and most of those costs cannot be covered by a student loan as flight time is not considered an "education" expense. The new Post-9/11 GI bill covers up to 60%, but the old one did not.

Even after that a CFI (certified flight instructor) has a very hard time recouping their costs because there are so many pilots, and finding students is hard because of that.

Another factor to consider is that Captains in the majors would be away for a very long time from family, and their home base. As I wrote earlier they get paid for flight time, and anything else out of that they aren't getting paid. The law requires something like 8 hours of rest per shift, but deplaning, finding a hotel, driving there, hitting the sack, waking up, and coming back to work all factors in the 8 hours. With that consideration their compensation differs from a 40 hour a week office job.

ATC is another animal. Every controller works a rotating shift, which means you could end up working 2 day shifts, 2 mids, and 1 graveyard in a week. Seniority determines what days you get off, so if you're fresh outta the academy you're looking at weekdays off. Think about this too: If you work a 4pm-12am shift, you'll have to be back to work at 8am for your morning shift. I guess the tradeoff is it's stable government work, and there are mandated breaks every 2 hours due to the concentration required to keep planes from crashing, while taking into consideration the fuel airlines have to save to cut costs, so some pilots wanna be vectored into an approach ASAP.
 
More blorg:

http://heathenscripture.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/tie-the-kangaroo-down-joyce/

Jesus motherloving Christ. If Alan Joyce is making a late bid for of the Year 2011, then he’s eating daylight on his competitors. On Saturday the Qantas CEO shut down worldwide operations of one of the planet’s biggest airlines, in an over-reaction that made King Lear look pretty chill.

Like one of those seasoned chooks you get all ready for roasting, some things come pre-satirised. On Friday, Joyce asked shareholders at Qantas’ annual general meeting to give him a pay rise of 71 percent, from under $3 million a year to about $5 million. They did. The next day, he shut down their company entirely, because of the “extreme demands” of workers. First prize, Alan. Believe.

Where unions have to give 72 hours notice of any action, Joyce gave zero hours. He stranded 68,000 people worldwide, upended the plans of tens of thousands more, and lost an unquantifiable number of future bookings.

And why? To force an advantage in an industrial dispute that was nowhere near crisis point. To stand on a milk crate in a pissing contest. And he got just the elevation he was after. An emergency sitting of the Fair Work Australia tribunal handed down its orders at about 2.30 this morning, terminating all Qantas industrial action – both the grounding and any strikes by unions. This was just what Qantas counsel had campaigned for from minute one of the hearing.


Planes could be up as early as this afternoon. But the scope of cancellations to date has already seen foreign leaders miss connections home from CHOGM. It will leave a huge dent in the Spring Racing Carnival, one of Victoria’s biggest weeks for tourism. 300 remote area doctors were stuck in Alice Springs with no way to reach their patients. And it happened to be smack bang in the middle of what is for many people a five-day weekend.

From all appearances, Joyce timed it to cause as much damage and disruption as possible. He gave no warning deliberately. He knew the chaos his airline could cause, and how much pressure it would place on the government. “Qantas apologise for any inconvenience caused” should be met with a hiss. The amount of inconvenience caused has been carefully maximised.

Imagine for a second that unions had shut down the airline without a minute’s forewarning. There would be calls for them to be criminally liable. For them to be disbanded. The Opposition would be tearing into the government tooth and claw.


Joyce wants to blame unions regardless, but it won’t save his reputation, nor that of Qantas. In his media blitz yesterday, as repercussions manifested in the form of stressed, worn, and teary passengers, Joyce was standing among the wreckage of the company he’s supposed to run, congratulating himself on his “bold decision”. Here was a man who wanted to get rid of the possums in his roof, so called in a napalm strike.

The reek of ego, rutting in the streets and smearing its musk on mailboxes, is the inescapable odour wafting through Melbourne’s streets in these quiet hours before dawn. From his comments on Sunday, Joyce was tired of negotiating. Manufacturing a crisis gave him a chance to skip it. He clearly believes the FWA intervention will get his preferred result.

Qantas and the three unions in question now have three weeks to reach agreement before having one imposed on them by FWA. But with Joyce’s muscle-flex having demonstrated just how firmly he can twist the national arm behind its back, the odds for something favouring Qantas management look good.

But the most offensive thing isn’t disruption. These things happen, sometimes for the best of reasons. For mine, the offensive thing is Joyce’s level of spin. Yes, a part of Spring Carnival is the unmistakable tang of horsehockey in the air. It’s just not usually contingent on a Qantas CEO opening his mouth.

For starters, Joyce lumps all three unions together: those of the engineers (ALAEA), the baggage handlers (TWU), and the long-haul pilots (AIPA). He tries to claim they have forced this decision, with rolling strikes in recent months costing $68 million, and an unsustainable wage demand.

Yet the pilots’ association has made no pay claim, nor taken any strike action. Their campaign, completely separate to those of the other unions, is about insisting that Qantas-trained pilots are used to fly Qantas-branded planes, rather than using cheaper offshore replacements.

In AIPA’s first industrial action in 44 years, the extent of the campaign has been to wear red ties bearing a slogan, and to mention the campaign in their pre-flight announcements. They haven’t delayed a single flight to date.

As for the rest of the strike, the TWU has recorded just six hours of industrial action in the past eight months. And according to the Daily Telegraph, a full month of industrial action by engineers in September still saw Qantas cancel fewer flights than the unaffected Jetstar.


I interviewed a Qantas domestic pilot on Saturday evening, who unsurprisingly asked not to be named. He claims limited industrial action can even suit management. “It gives the airline a chance to cancel whichever flights they want. Airlines cancel flights all the time for various reasons, like if a flight’s not full enough. It gives them a nice excuse to hand out to the public.”

No wonder everyone was blindsided. Action was still relatively minor. Qantas had not even suggested government mediation, the logical step when negotiations aren’t going well. It appears that Joyce decided it was beneath him to participate.

And where his magical $68 million loss comes from is as mysterious as Joyce’s other accounting. According to Joyce yesterday, his pay rise wasn’t really a pay rise. According to Joyce a few months back, 1000 Qantas jobs would be lost offshore. According to Joyce this weekend, that number was zero. As my pilot interviewee said, “He’s a mathematician, but he hasn’t done anything to show that he has the qualifications.”

Of course, it’s the offshore threat that is the sticking point in negotiations, with unions wanting some guarantee this won’t happen. Joyce’s plans are for exactly that to happen.

You can see the model with Qantas’ New Zealand routes: planes with Qantas flight numbers, Qantas paintwork, and Qantas uniforms, but staffed entirely by New Zealanders employed by a Qantas front called Jetconnect. The difference? Staff cost 40 percent less, receiving NZ dollars on an NZ pay scale.


You can extrapolate, then, what Joyce’s plans for a large Qantas subsidiary based in Asia would mean. If you think the exchange rate is good in Auckland, try Kuala Lumpur. Try Bangkok. Jetstar, which Joyce used to run, is already using Thai crew, who cost a couple of hundred bucks a month. An Australian would earn that in a day.

No wonder they quietly withdrew that John Travolta safety video. “There’s no-one I’d rather have at the controls than a Qantas pilot,” said the man who played Vincent Vega. Union scum.

In grounding the fleet with no warning, Joyce and his board showed utter disregard for their employees, their shareholders, and their public. Even a couple of days’ notice would have ameliorated the consequences.

Truly remarkable, isn’t it, that it didn’t occur to Joyce to mention the prospect at the AGM. As the Financial Review’s Marcus Priest wrote, “There will be some interesting questions of corporate disclosure and directors’ duties to be explored in any subsequent legal proceedings.”

But this is where his other great dance begins: regarding premeditation. Joyce claims that he and the board only decided on the lockout scheme on Saturday morning. It was in effect by 5 pm. Mate, it takes me longer than that to organise knock-off drinks.

Pilot union vice-president Richard Woodward says Qantas were booking thousands of hotel rooms days or even weeks ago to accommodate stranded passengers. At Saturday night’s initial FWA hearing, counsel for the APIA and the TWU requested documents which showed the pre-existence of plans. Qantas, surprisingly, opposed the move. Nothing to hide…

Counsel for Qantas Frank Parry also complained that in potentially being ordered to continue negotiations, “Qantas has been dragged in here at short notice and been presented with an untenable alternative”.

Barman, I’ll have a Bullshitski. You want short notice, talk to the people whose planes were recalled as they were taxiing to the runway. Ask the woman rushing to see her father before he died. The only party with any notice was Qantas – as much notice as they liked, since it was up to them to pick the date.

The denials, in the end, are impossibly juvenile. We’ve got a kid arm-deep in the cookie jar while querying the existence of baked goods. This is the way of Joyce’s regime. Just listen to his Inside Business interview with Alan Kohler – every single answer starts with a refutation. Everything is justified. Poor brave Alan made the difficult decision. That’s why they pay him the big bucks. And if you want a culprit, those bloody unions are to blame.

Of course, those of a certain view will always find a way to blame unions. The unions faked the moon landings. The unions gave me herpes. Union dingoes took my baby. The unions are the reason why my kids hate me and my wife never quite looks me in the eye anymore.

It’s all their fault. Oh, and sorry, for punching you in the face repeatedly, but I couldn’t solve the crossword this morning, so, take it up with The Times.

Even the great Americain, dropping a few horse-apples as he heads out to early trackwork this morning, can’t match the size of these Joycean steamers. A company which has not even asked for arbitration can’t suddenly claim last resort. A guy who initiates crisis can’t deflect responsibility.

“They are trashing our strategy and our brand. They must decide just how badly they want to hurt Qantas, their members… and the travelling public.” Said the man who shut down the airline. Said the man who fisted every customer for his own tactical advantage.
Said the man who made headlines in papers round the world for the worst possible reason.

See? The bloke must have a beef with workers. He’s trying to put satirists out of a job as well.
 
Wait, what?

That's not just "another consideration"! :eek:

Jetstar while a new airline dose go on about its own safety record and its more modern airplanes reliability. So if your looking at safety when it comes to airlines then you can consider Jetstar as a good choice as well.

Internationally though Qantas as in the movie "Rain Man" has a perfect record. Maybe they should be banking on that record instead of doing to opposite which is cutting corners to save money.
 
Do you mean Qantas international flights turned a profit, or Qantas as a whole?

The whole thing

Statutory profit after tax of $249 million on page 11. Revenue was around $14.8 billion and expenditure around $14.4 billion. Of that, manpower costs $3.7 billion, fuel $3.6 billion. Estimated cost of the union demands by Qantas and hostile newspapers, $165 million, and all three unions have said the pay rise demands are negotiable.

Note also the $3.4 billion of cash it had on hand at the end of July 2011.

All this despite the impacts of weather events, the Fukushima disaster, the high Australian dollar, and the Rolls Royce engine falling off thing.
 
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