Abortion - What do you think about it?

[MrPresident]

"Why do the born have more rights than the unborn?"

Why do humans have more rights than other animals?

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Originally posted by MrPresident
"Why do the born have more rights than the unborn?"

Why do humans have more rights than other animals?

Why does attacking a strawman seem like a good tactic in debate?

 

[The Troquelet]

Because it works.

The born have more rights because in our twisted psychology they are regarded as more alive.

 

[rjgo]

phillipe, masturbation is allowed in judaism. and dont call me a dirty little boy.

shalom

rjgo

p.s. pro-choice

 

[philippe]

Originally posted by rjgo
phillipe, masturbation is allowed in judaism. and dont call me a dirty little boy.

shalom

rjgo

p.s. pro-choice

it is?i know that in chatolism in the medieval ages it was better to rape a nun than to masturbate.
masturbate in medieval times=death
so i thought it wasnt allowed in judaism either.

 

[The Troquelet]

What isn't? Besides insulting your mother? (<--- Meant in JEST! I am a Jew myself...

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

Left ALONE in the womb, a sperm will die in a few hours when it runs out of stored energy. Point the first, obliterated.

No.
Left alone, it will run through the uterus, seek an egg and unite with it. If it does not find one, THEN it will die.
Left alone, an embryon will go to the uterus, attach itself to it, and grow. If it can't attach itself, it will die.

Why?

Well, if you can't make the difference between a hope and a fact, I much better understand your total lack of logic and understanding.

Neither can a coma patient.

Completely different. A coma patient has a got a mind. If you kill him, you kill the mind. An embryon has not a mind. If you kill it, you DON'T destroy a mind.

YET

See as above. Hope is not fact. I can hope that you will owe me 10 000 $ in two years. So give me back the money NOW, you thief !

Maybe you should read a transcript of Roe vs. Wade...

Perhaps you should try to use logic and reason and disprove my points and not rely on others for that.

But they can't feel anything, and they're not conscious. Are you saying that just because they (your words) HOPE TO regain consciousness, we should treat them as if they will? Why not then give the embreyo the same benefit? Sounds a LOT like age discrimination to me.

*sigh*
I have the feeling to talk to my 4-years old nephew. Can't even grasp basic concepts.
Someone that is in coma and have the hope to get out HAVE a mind ALREADY. It's not about FUTURE or HOPE or MAYBE. He HAS it. If you kill the guy, you destroy his mind. An embryon DO NOT HAVE any mind. If you kill an embryon, you DON'T destroy a mind.
But well, as you can't make the difference between hoping to have something and having it, I'm probably speaking in deaf ears.

But you'll wait and see if the coma patient recovers, and that's only a chance. We KNOW, for a FACT, that nine months will produce a child, but you won't wait for it. Why do the born have more rights than the unborn?

I've totally got you by the short and curlies now...YANK!!

Oh God...

Completely missed it, boy.
First : you don't KNOW that you will get a child in nine months. LOTS of embryons die naturally.
Second : the coma patient, though in coma, still has his mind. If he recovers, he will awake with the memories he had before, so it's not like his mind is destroyed when he sink into coma, and another one appear when he gets out. It's the same. Hence the man in coma still has his mind. Hence if you kill him you destroy his mind.

"Why dp the born have more rights than the unborn ?"
A "unborn" that has a brain allowing him to feel has nearly as much rights as any "born" (I would allow his abortion only in case of medical reasons, as to not endanger the mother).
A "unborn" that has not reached this point has less rights, because it's not a being. Remember ? No mind yet. Yes, same explanation I already made three times in this post.

Or if you wish that something which has no mind of its own get as much rights as a living, thinking and feeling human, well, why the dead have less rights than the living then ?

 

[Akka]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2

Why does attacking a strawman seem like a good tactic in debate?

Why can't you answer his question ?

Suggested answer to my own question : because your only answer would be "because God made humans superiors to animals".

 

[The Troquelet]

Don't see a reason against that. Humans ARE superior. Power is the ability to kill, isn't it?

 

[Brad]

Actually... sperm has been found alive 72 hours after it has left the guy. Which is one reason why twins from seperate fathers is possible. The tramp

 

[bigfatron]

Originally posted by Brad
If you look at the BBL chronologically those rules were to be followed under what was the MOSAIC LAW... but this was done away with when Jesus gave us a new set of PRINCIPLES to guide our lives by (Love God + Love our neighbour as ourself)thta is why true christians don't have to follow those previous rules like that.

Agreed, but really Jesus didn't say a whole to more than what you paraphrased above, yet various churches and sects have developed whole universities full of theology and interpretative instruction.

as far as I can see all Jesus said was that you should try your damnedest not to hurt anyone else, to help others where you can and not to be materialistic.

You don't need a beard in the sky to tell you to do that, it's blindingly obvious to anyone with an ounce of morality that this is what we all 'should' do.

Everything else is simply the construction of whichever heirarchy has decided to use a particlur theocratic belief system as a means to dominate and dispossess some section of humanity.

In fact Jesus was a bang-to-rights humanist, except for that bit about being the son of god of course

 

[The Troquelet]

I like Jesus (the historical Jesus) except nobody wants to admit he was a hippy! He had a beard, he was unemployed, he had groupies, and he was anti-establishment! C'mon, what's wrong with hippies?

That aside, Jesus basically preached common sense. Or we think that, because we're used to following his rules today.

Also I don't see how P. Bush can call himself a Christian - he owns a ranch with some 50,000 head of cattle, doesn't he?

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by The Troquelet
Also I don't see how P. Bush can call himself a Christian - he owns a ranch with some 50,000 head of cattle, doesn't he?

P. Bush? Which Bush is this now? And how come a Christian can't own cattle?

 

[The Troquelet]

But Jesus vehemently opposed materialism... I'll find quotes for you if you want them.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by The Troquelet
But Jesus vehemently opposed materialism... I'll find quotes for you if you want them.

Oh, I don't doubt it. But should we also chide Bush (if P. Bush is the same Bush I'm thinking about) for living the White House? I mean...that's a big house.

 

[The Troquelet]

Needs the house, does he need the cattle?

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by The Troquelet
Needs the house, does he need the cattle?

Don't know. What does he do with them? Just keep them around? Slaughter them?

If he just keeps them around, then he's saving them from the slaughter house at least.

 

[Citizen_K]

Jesus wasn't a Marxist Class Revolutionary as claimed in The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. He didn't hate rich people.

Now what he did say was for rich people to value their wealth less than other things, or not at all. He didn't say to "depose the oppressors."

Now are you saying that because "P. Bush" is rich, he is a materialist?

 

[Rodgers]

As the majority of the people on this site are men, what the hell has this topic got to do with any of you?

I reckon it's none of our business whether women abort the foetus or not - they do all the "work" of carrying it and risk their lives giving birth to it and (usually) do all the work raising it afterwards so why should we have the right to say whether they keep it or not?

It should be available on demand no questions asked up to the point where if the child was born they have a fighting chance of survival. Dunno when exactly that is - ask a doctor.

Otherwise, I say - leave 'em to it.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Rodgers
As the majority of the people on this site are men, what the hell has this topic got to do with any of you?

Rest assured that this issue has been debated on more fourms than you can imagine that have predominantly female memberships. And any man who DARE get in the way of the pro-choice juggernaut will have something to cry about.

It should be available on demand no questions asked up to the point where if the child was born they have a fighting chance of survival. Dunno when exactly that is - ask a doctor.

Otherwise, I say - leave 'em to it.

And Rodger's word is law.


Sometime during in the third trimester is when the baby can survive without aid. The second trimester is when it can survive with aid.