Advice Thread VIII: The Theology of Homecoming

[Caesar of Bread]

Well, stuff has happened:

- I got a homecoming date! But she’s not really a date - she’s lesbian. When I told some of my good friends this, they laughed at me, and said that I shouldn’t be going with a lesbian (we’re going as friends).
- My theology teacher has been acting really anti-LGBT+. He’s been extremely transphobic recently. How do I tell him that people of the LGBT+ community (like a lot of us on the forums, including me) should not be rudely insulted by him?
- I haven’t really found my group at high school, and everyone else has.
- I recently found my middle school crush! Maybe this time it could work? Or should I give up on that opportunity?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

1. This is why I advised you to find out what your school's policies are on bullying. If you went to school here and a teacher spewed hate speech like that, he would be SO fired. Your teacher is bullying the LGBT kids, and that's not right.

2. Your parents know you're LGBT, I take it? This is one of those times when you ask them to help you, because this is NOT acceptable behavior for a teacher.

3. It may take time for you to find a group to fit into. Or you could create your own group, if there's some activity or interest you have that isn't represented by a club or other extracurricular activity.

4. Relationships, even the just-friends kind, also take time. There should ideally be give-and-take from both sides.

5. Your friends should mind their own business. Who you date is up to you (assuming the other person wants to be your date). I know that peer pressure can be relentless at this age, pushing people to avoid others who might be unpopular.

The decent kids will grow out of this.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

1. This is why I advised you to find out what your school's policies are on bullying. If you went to school here and a teacher spewed hate speech like that, he would be SO fired. Your teacher is bullying the LGBT kids, and that's not right.

2. Your parents know you're LGBT, I take it? This is one of those times when you ask them to help you, because this is NOT acceptable behavior for a teacher.

1st, he wasn’t bullying the LGBT kids. He was saying stuff like this.
- “God created man and women. Nothing else besides that. And he made it so that a man is with a woman.”
- “Society doesn’t know the difference between the two genders!”
2nd, I am never telling my family that I am bisexual.
3rd, I’ve conquered Philmont. I’m an Eagle Scout. I’ve won numerous writing awards at my previous school. I‘m a great Quiz Bowl player. All that shows is that I won’t back down from people silently oppressing me.

3. It may take time for you to find a group to fit into. Or you could create your own group, if there's some activity or interest you have that isn't represented by a club or other extracurricular activity.

Well, I can’t think of an idea for a club. Besides, my afternoons are already taken.

4. Relationships, even the just-friends kind, also take time. There should ideally be give-and-take from both sides.

5. Your friends should mind their own business. Who you date is up to you (assuming the other person wants to be your date). I know that peer pressure can be relentless at this age, pushing people to avoid others who might be unpopular.

The decent kids will grow out of this.

We’re not really dating, as I said. Also thank you for the advice!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Even if he's not directly bullying specific people, this is still not acceptable behavior for a teacher.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Even if he's not directly bullying specific people, this is still not acceptable behavior for a teacher.

I go to an all-boys Jesuit Catholic school. Every class starts off with a prayer. So it’s kinda acceptable by their standards (not by mine though).

 

[Ajidica]

My theology teacher has been acting really anti-LGBT+. He’s been extremely transphobic recently. How do I tell him that people of the LGBT+ community (like a lot of us on the forums, including me) should not be rudely insulted by him?

Ignore him, you won't win by publicly challenging him in class. It is just the way it is. You will just look like a tool.
If you feel you must challenge him, I would challenge him where you can show he is at odds with papal encyclicals. Didn't Pope Frank say some good things about gays a few years ago, like they have a right to have a family? At least you get some enjoyment out of hearing a Catholic say you should ignore papal pronouncements if you disagree with them.

 

[Takhisis]

1st, he wasn’t bullying the LGBT kids. He was saying stuff like this.
- “God created man and women. Nothing else besides that. And he made it so that a man is with a woman.”
- “Society doesn’t know the difference between the two genders!”

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Am I the only one who sees the contradiction here?

No, you're not. It might as well be on a billboard.

One sad thing about it is that there are people in my provincial government who would be nodding and smiling along with it.

Under the NDP (2015-2019), teachers would not be allowed to 'out' a kid to their parents without the kid's permission if they joined a GSA group in school (support group for LGBT kids). Under the UCP, teachers are required to 'out' a kid to their parents without the kid's permission and without considering if it would be safe for the kid.

 

[Moriarte]

My theology teacher has been acting really anti-LGBT+. He’s been extremely transphobic recently. How do I tell him that people of the LGBT+ community (like a lot of us on the forums, including me) should not be rudely insulted by him?

If you're confident in what you do is right, then don't simply get insulted when confronted with an opposing world view. Learn how to oppose it. Be realistic. His position on issues is His problem, far more than it is Yours, remember that. Your teacher is likely far smarter than you at this point, as in: experienced in polemic and generally more experienced in arguing his position. Whatever you plan to say to a christian theologist ain't going to matter, he'd heard it all before. So, think carefully before you say things out loud.

People invent a god and then live by it's imaginary rule. The god, through his prophets, is saying that sexual deviations are sinful. It's written, and hence non-negotiable. Among other things god is also saying you should be afraid every day, Darwin is an idiot, and he also kinda hints, that donations to his priests are much appreciated. So, if you ever decide to marry into this christian paradigm, be prepared to be expected to lift the whole baggage that comes with it wholesale, not just the bits that you like.

That's why I'm an atheist, even though I agree with some select things I read in christian and other religious books. In my own life I found "not very interested in your religion" is not a concrete and, frankly, just not good enough position to oppose centuries of religious dogmatism when said dogmatism encroaches into my life. I wouldn't care less about being atheist, but in a conversation it gives clear cut delineation of how far I am prepared to venture into someone else's abstraction of reality.

 

[NinjaCow64]

- My theology teacher has been acting really anti-LGBT+. He’s been extremely transphobic recently. How do I tell him that people of the LGBT+ community (like a lot of us on the forums, including me) should not be rudely insulted by him?

I’ll admit I didn’t realise I was queer until I had graduated from high school and I have never had to be in an environment like an all boys’ Jesuit school before so my understanding of context will be limited.

I would also really encourage you to find other communities other than CFC-OT to ask these questions as there are only a handful of queer people in this subforum and most of the subforum is at least twice your age (myself included).

Having said all that - my advise would be probably not to engage with the teacher on this. I can’t imagine Jesuit school staffers are particularly queer friendly so they’re unlikely to listen to your complaints about the guy. He is unlikely to change his mind considering he is a theology teacher. Even worse, he also has power over you in terms of grading and such. Even worse, depending on where you live if he suspects or learns you are bisexual he may be allowed (or even required by law) to out you to your parents. And depending on how queerphobic your classmates are they could turn on you for making a stand.

Sticking up for yourself and your queer friends is admirable but you have to keep yourself safe. As a queer person you have to learn to pick your battles because a lot of time its too risky and you are not likely to win.

Ultimately you know what your school and home life is like better than me but please just be extremely careful, your safety is the most important thing.

Ignore him, you won't win by publicly challenging him in class. It is just the way it is. You will just look like a tool.
If you feel you must challenge him, I would challenge him where you can show he is at odds with papal encyclicals. Didn't Pope Frank say some good things about gays a few years ago, like they have a right to have a family? At least you get some enjoyment out of hearing a Catholic say you should ignore papal pronouncements if you disagree with them.

I could not disagree with this advise more strongly. You wouldn’t be a tool for standing up to a bigot like this but it would likely be unacceptably risky.

I would also strongly advise getting into a theological debate with this guy. The Pope hasn’t been particularly kind towards trans people (he said we were as dangerous as ICBMs which is just lol). Even if you were to beat him in a debate and construct a watertight Catholic argument for gay and trans people (this is extremely unlikely), this wouldn’t likely cause him to change his mind he would likely just get angry that you showed him up. More likely he’d just run circles around you with his larger knowledge of the Bible. Its not worth it.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Among other things god is also saying you should be afraid every day, Darwin is an idiot, and he also kinda hints, that donations to his priests are much appreciated. So, if you ever decide to marry into this christian paradigm, be prepared to be expected to lift the whole baggage that comes with it wholesale, not just the bits that you like.

I am genuinely deeply confused about this. Isn’t Darwin a scientist? He doesn’t have priests???

 

[Farm Boy]

You need to know the theological lines you can fight over with Rome's written, but probably unstated, support. Which leaves you alone in the crowd. It'll cost. Everyone deserves love. Everyone deserves a family. Everyone deserves all the love you can give them. But... Catholic theologians are not going to react with any sort of positivity to gender affirming care, especially sorts that cause sterility. That's kinda ok for purpose here, you need other groundwork first before you get there anyways. Suicide is a mortal sin, and there is understanding and care that transpeople are clearly not getting. Which is a very Catholic failure.

 

[Takhisis]

Ignore him, you won't win by publicly challenging him in class. It is just the way it is. You will just look like a tool.
If you feel you must challenge him, I would challenge him where you can show he is at odds with papal encyclicals. Didn't Pope Frank say some good things about gays a few years ago, like they have a right to have a family? At least you get some enjoyment out of hearing a Catholic say you should ignore papal pronouncements if you disagree with them.

Hm.

I really don't see any way in which Caesar of Bread could win an argument against a teacher. I really wouldn't advise a take-on-the-world approach in such a situation where the deck seems stacked against him.

 

[Ajidica]

I could not disagree with this advise more strongly. You wouldn’t be a tool for standing up to a bigot like this but it would likely be unacceptably risky.

This isn't like a debate or argument within a friend group; this is between a teacher and a student in front of the whole class. Getting into an argument to try and 'prove him wrong' just makes you look like a tool and insufferable know-it-all for the rest of the class who don't care about your crusade.
That is also why I would frame any sort of public disagreement as within the context of Catholic moral teaching.There is enough within Catholic social justice teachings that, if he is halfway intellectually honest or pretends to care about being a Jesuit, should put a stop to rank bigotry in class. At the least it shows you respect him enough to know his moral framework coming in. If at the end of the day the best you get is a Jesuit looking silly by saying personal opinion trumps Catholic teaching, take it as a win.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

No, you're not. It might as well be on a billboard.

One sad thing about it is that there are people in my provincial government who would be nodding and smiling along with it.

Under the NDP (2015-2019), teachers would not be allowed to 'out' a kid to their parents without the kid's permission if they joined a GSA group in school (support group for LGBT kids). Under the UCP, teachers are required to 'out' a kid to their parents without the kid's permission and without considering if it would be safe for the kid.

Welcome to Texas. According to new laws, public schools in my area are substituting libraries for practical rehab centers.

also my friend and I decided we aren’t going to the dance together

 

[NinjaCow64]

Welcome to Texas. According to new laws, public schools in my area are substituting libraries for practical rehab centers.

also my friend and I decided we aren’t going to the dance together

You live in Texas? Jesus Christ mate I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how stressful it is to live in Texas as a queer person at the moment.

I would emphasise my recommendation not to confront the teacher directly then, knowing how things are going down there he would definitely feel empowered to retaliate against you.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

You live in Texas? Jesus Christ mate I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine how stressful it is to live in Texas as a queer person at the moment.

I would emphasise my recommendation not to confront the teacher directly then, knowing how things are going down there he would definitely feel empowered to retaliate against you.

Yeah. i have to know if I can trust some one with practically my identity before I can out myself to them.

 

[NinjaCow64]

You need to know the theological lines you can fight over with Rome's written, but probably unstated, support. Which leaves you alone in the crowd. It'll cost. Everyone deserves love. Everyone deserves a family. Everyone deserves all the love you can give them. But... Catholic theologians are not going to react with any sort of positivity to gender affirming care, especially sorts that cause sterility. That's kinda ok for purpose here, you need other groundwork first before you get there anyways. Suicide is a mortal sin, and there is understanding and care that transpeople are clearly not getting. Which is a very Catholic failure.

Its not just a Catholic failure, its a Christian failure. Anglicanism is currently fighting a civil war over LGBT issues, Orthodox Christians hate queer people as a rule and the other Protestant denominations are a mixed bag.

 

[Caesar of Bread]

Its not just a Catholic failure, its a Christian failure. Anglicanism is currently fighting a civil war over LGBT issues, Orthodox Christians hate queer people as a rule and the other Protestant denominations are a mixed bag.

My denomination, the Presbyterians, is in chaos over this. There’s at least 3 groups. Sadly, I go to a church belonging to a more conservative one (I’m a social democrat)

 

[NinjaCow64]

There is enough within Catholic social justice teachings that, if he is halfway intellectually honest or pretends to care about being a Jesuit, should put a stop to rank bigotry in class.

That is a naive sentiment. The teacher is the one banging on about this stuff in the first place he obviously doesn’t think it contradicts his teachings or, even worse, he just doesn’t care.

When bigoted people have a “completely rational” reason to be a bigot and their arguments are destroyed they usually don’t stop being a bigot. Usually the “logical” argument is a post-hoc justification for their personal disgust or hatred of the group in question. I’ve has that argument enough times to know.

If at the end of the day the best you get is a Jesuit looking silly by saying personal opinion trumps Catholic teaching, take it as a win.

Such a miniature win is not worth Bread’s personal safety!