KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
he's winning by keeping us in suspense!!!!!
ALC Game 11: Carthage/Hannibal
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
You are the consummate showman, always keeping the crowd on the edges of their seats...
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Fortunately, I haven't had that happen to me yet!
(knocks on wood...)
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 8: 1880 AD to 1950 AD
The final round was a mad dash to win the space race--a race I've never started from such a dismal starting position. At the opening of the round, at least two of the other civilizations (Persia and the Incas) had already built the Apollo Program and completed space ship parts. I didn't even start on the Apollo Program until several turns later, and before I finished it, every other civ except poor, hapless Shaka had also completed theirs. Only Shaka was behind me in techs, and he was the sole vassal civ (Tokugawa was his master).
To protect myself, as suggested, I lined up a big, friendly protector right of the bat:
I managed to keep on Cyrus' good side (no negative diplomatic modifiers, and "Friendly" status) to the end of the game. Since he was the most powerful civilization on the planet, our DP guaranteed that none of the others--Tokugawa in particular--would be bothering me. That allowed me to focus on infrastructure for several turns. Since I was well behind in military techs, it didn't make sense to shore up my defenses anyway.
I nevertheless made some attempts to buddy up with Tokugawa:
Again, this was following a suggestion from the thread. It was hoped that Tokugawa, being nearly as hopelessly behind the two tech leaders as I was, would research Mass Media now and then build the UN. As the largest civ on the planet, I would be his opponent, and Tokugawa being such a charming and affable guy--not--I would be a shoo-in for Secretary-General at least, if not a diplomatic victory.
Well, of course, things didn't turn out that way.
At any rate, I found a use for that extra Settler I'd built:
Toku was "Annoyed" anyway, so I had no fear of exacerbating the "close borders" demerit. I did manage to steal several tiles from him before the end of the game.
In 1906, another blow, though not an unexpected one: Cyrus completed a wonder that would give him a leg up on space race production.
I'd really been hoping that Huayna or Mehmed would build the dam since Cyrus was the Space Race leader. All I needed now was for him to build the Space Elevator too.
Besides having my Workers scurrying around building production-oriented improvements (watermills, workshops, mines, lumbermills, railroads) I was building coal plants in a lot of my cities, a building I normally avoid. But I needed the production bonus any way I could get it. Several cities went into an unhealthy state (remember they had laboratories too!), but that was just something I lived with.
But it wasn't all bad news. In 1922 I finished researching Fibre Optics and started on the project that was my only hope for winning the game:
As I recall, I also completed the Apollo Program on that turn and got busy building space ship parts in several of my cities. I started researching towards Genetics--the +3 health in every city was going to help, and none of the AI civs had it or its pre-requisite, Refrigeration, at that point, so I was unlikely to get them from the Internet.
I was also hoping for a golden age to help me out. Early in the round I spawned a Great Scientist in Carthage and set him aside. The next GP was due from Utica a few turns later. Since the start of the round, I'd run a mix of Engineers, Artists, and Merchants there. Unfortunately, the scientists I'd run in that city for several turns in previous rounds proved my undoing:
CRAP!!! And that despite a 9% chance of a GS. I often find the RNG gets really perverse for Great People. When there's a mix of several GPP, I almost always get one of the lowest-probability GPs. Go figure. I guess I shouldn't complain, since I've gotten some unlikely GEs in the past, but still...
Well, it didn't make sense to use the two Great Scientists for Fission--I was going to get that for free from the Internet soon enough. Instead, I used them for Academies in Utica and Hippo, my two best science cities that lacked those buildings. I also hoped to steal a few more tiles from my neighbours thanks to the Academy's cultural output. I was really hoping to claim that uranium tile south of Utica, but that unfortunately didn't happen before the game ended.
In 1930, things were not looking good in the space race for me:
Cyrus had all the basic parts built and just had 4 of the expensive ones to go--while I had none! Huayna also had several components built. Even Mehmed and Tokugawa had a couple of casings on me. It looked pretty hopeless.
And then... everything changed.
WOOT!! Look at that--seven techs in one turn, all from the Internet. It later gave me Composites as well. Awesome! And thanks to the captured Mongolian cities, factories, coal plants, and laboratories, I had the production capacity to churn out components quickly. However, I still had some techs to research (Ecology for one, as you can see, and Fusion too) and a lot of parts to build.
But with the Internet bestowing all those techs on me, the foreign advisor revealed that I had gone from being next-to-last in techs to practically being first:
Yep, I had one space ship tech each on Cyrus and Huayna. (I had three each on Tokugawa and Mehmed now, so they were no longer a concern.)
At this point, it seemed appropriate to make my final civics change, one that would boost production in several of my cities:
I don't think I gold-rushed a single improvement, but the +1 hammer for every town definitely helped. And I was relieved that the change took only one turn of anarchy.
Meanwhile, apparently lacking space ship parts to build, Cyrus went and built the U.N.! It surprised me, since it seemed he had a lock on the space race, but I guess the AI isn't above pursuing a backup plan. I checked the diplomatic board, and it was tough to say how the voting for the Secretary-General position was going to go. The outcome was a pleasant surprise:
Cool, huh? Good ol' Huayna and Shaka. As I recall, Cyrus' opportunistic entry into the war against Mongolia earned him Tokugawa's emnity when Kublai became Japan's vassal. Or maybe it was just the different religions, or just Toku's usual truculence. In any case, Japan abstaining cost Cyrus the SG seat, and I had control over the resolutions. I stuck to harmless ones--no nukes, single currency, open markets. That's right, I didn't even force any global civics down anyone's throat, though that obviously would have been next--but the game didn't go on that long.
In 1940 AD, Cyrus and I were practically neck-and-neck:
However, I finished Fusion two turns later and had a small but significant tech lead on both he and Huayna. I could now build all the space ship parts, but my two main rivals could not. That's right, after lagging in techs for most of the game, I was finally, at long last, the tech leader!
In addition, Mehmed, of all people, built the Space Elevator, keeping it out of Cyrus grubby hands. I made my own attempt at it, and my failure earned me a tidy sum of gold that went to unit upgrades. Once all but a couple of the space ship parts were built, I focused on military units--just to keep Toku from getting any weird ideas.
Thus the outcome in 1950 had become a foregone conclusion:
Whew! That was a close one!
The port mortem will follow. The saved game file from the last turn is below.
The final round was a mad dash to win the space race--a race I've never started from such a dismal starting position. At the opening of the round, at least two of the other civilizations (Persia and the Incas) had already built the Apollo Program and completed space ship parts. I didn't even start on the Apollo Program until several turns later, and before I finished it, every other civ except poor, hapless Shaka had also completed theirs. Only Shaka was behind me in techs, and he was the sole vassal civ (Tokugawa was his master).
To protect myself, as suggested, I lined up a big, friendly protector right of the bat:
I managed to keep on Cyrus' good side (no negative diplomatic modifiers, and "Friendly" status) to the end of the game. Since he was the most powerful civilization on the planet, our DP guaranteed that none of the others--Tokugawa in particular--would be bothering me. That allowed me to focus on infrastructure for several turns. Since I was well behind in military techs, it didn't make sense to shore up my defenses anyway.
I nevertheless made some attempts to buddy up with Tokugawa:
Again, this was following a suggestion from the thread. It was hoped that Tokugawa, being nearly as hopelessly behind the two tech leaders as I was, would research Mass Media now and then build the UN. As the largest civ on the planet, I would be his opponent, and Tokugawa being such a charming and affable guy--not--I would be a shoo-in for Secretary-General at least, if not a diplomatic victory.
Well, of course, things didn't turn out that way.
At any rate, I found a use for that extra Settler I'd built:
Toku was "Annoyed" anyway, so I had no fear of exacerbating the "close borders" demerit. I did manage to steal several tiles from him before the end of the game.
In 1906, another blow, though not an unexpected one: Cyrus completed a wonder that would give him a leg up on space race production.
I'd really been hoping that Huayna or Mehmed would build the dam since Cyrus was the Space Race leader. All I needed now was for him to build the Space Elevator too.
Besides having my Workers scurrying around building production-oriented improvements (watermills, workshops, mines, lumbermills, railroads) I was building coal plants in a lot of my cities, a building I normally avoid. But I needed the production bonus any way I could get it. Several cities went into an unhealthy state (remember they had laboratories too!), but that was just something I lived with.
But it wasn't all bad news. In 1922 I finished researching Fibre Optics and started on the project that was my only hope for winning the game:
As I recall, I also completed the Apollo Program on that turn and got busy building space ship parts in several of my cities. I started researching towards Genetics--the +3 health in every city was going to help, and none of the AI civs had it or its pre-requisite, Refrigeration, at that point, so I was unlikely to get them from the Internet.
I was also hoping for a golden age to help me out. Early in the round I spawned a Great Scientist in Carthage and set him aside. The next GP was due from Utica a few turns later. Since the start of the round, I'd run a mix of Engineers, Artists, and Merchants there. Unfortunately, the scientists I'd run in that city for several turns in previous rounds proved my undoing:
CRAP!!! And that despite a 9% chance of a GS. I often find the RNG gets really perverse for Great People. When there's a mix of several GPP, I almost always get one of the lowest-probability GPs. Go figure. I guess I shouldn't complain, since I've gotten some unlikely GEs in the past, but still...
Well, it didn't make sense to use the two Great Scientists for Fission--I was going to get that for free from the Internet soon enough. Instead, I used them for Academies in Utica and Hippo, my two best science cities that lacked those buildings. I also hoped to steal a few more tiles from my neighbours thanks to the Academy's cultural output. I was really hoping to claim that uranium tile south of Utica, but that unfortunately didn't happen before the game ended.
In 1930, things were not looking good in the space race for me:
Cyrus had all the basic parts built and just had 4 of the expensive ones to go--while I had none! Huayna also had several components built. Even Mehmed and Tokugawa had a couple of casings on me. It looked pretty hopeless.
And then... everything changed.
WOOT!! Look at that--seven techs in one turn, all from the Internet. It later gave me Composites as well. Awesome! And thanks to the captured Mongolian cities, factories, coal plants, and laboratories, I had the production capacity to churn out components quickly. However, I still had some techs to research (Ecology for one, as you can see, and Fusion too) and a lot of parts to build.
But with the Internet bestowing all those techs on me, the foreign advisor revealed that I had gone from being next-to-last in techs to practically being first:
Yep, I had one space ship tech each on Cyrus and Huayna. (I had three each on Tokugawa and Mehmed now, so they were no longer a concern.)
At this point, it seemed appropriate to make my final civics change, one that would boost production in several of my cities:
I don't think I gold-rushed a single improvement, but the +1 hammer for every town definitely helped. And I was relieved that the change took only one turn of anarchy.
Meanwhile, apparently lacking space ship parts to build, Cyrus went and built the U.N.! It surprised me, since it seemed he had a lock on the space race, but I guess the AI isn't above pursuing a backup plan. I checked the diplomatic board, and it was tough to say how the voting for the Secretary-General position was going to go. The outcome was a pleasant surprise:
Cool, huh? Good ol' Huayna and Shaka. As I recall, Cyrus' opportunistic entry into the war against Mongolia earned him Tokugawa's emnity when Kublai became Japan's vassal. Or maybe it was just the different religions, or just Toku's usual truculence. In any case, Japan abstaining cost Cyrus the SG seat, and I had control over the resolutions. I stuck to harmless ones--no nukes, single currency, open markets. That's right, I didn't even force any global civics down anyone's throat, though that obviously would have been next--but the game didn't go on that long.
In 1940 AD, Cyrus and I were practically neck-and-neck:
However, I finished Fusion two turns later and had a small but significant tech lead on both he and Huayna. I could now build all the space ship parts, but my two main rivals could not. That's right, after lagging in techs for most of the game, I was finally, at long last, the tech leader!
In addition, Mehmed, of all people, built the Space Elevator, keeping it out of Cyrus grubby hands. I made my own attempt at it, and my failure earned me a tidy sum of gold that went to unit upgrades. Once all but a couple of the space ship parts were built, I focused on military units--just to keep Toku from getting any weird ideas.
Thus the outcome in 1950 had become a foregone conclusion:
Whew! That was a close one!
The port mortem will follow. The saved game file from the last turn is below.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Post Mortem
First off, here's a look at the map of my continent at the end of the game:
I could have been building things like units, but what was the point? I just wanted to finish the game with a minimum of micro-management, so hence the wealth/research builds.
Victory conditions:
Cyrus actually had only 1 or 2 turns left on the SS Cockpit, but he lacked Fusion for the Engine. He'd made several research diversions for things like Mass Media and Composites. Perhaps he had to do so to keep ahead of his neighbours in power. Still, while space race may be the AI's preferred victory condition, I find that it often isn't that great at pursuing it, as Validator said above. Unlike a focused human player, the AI seems more easily distracted by other shiny techs, wonders, and buildings. And that's something strange to say about a computer compared to a human.
Just for interest's sake, here are the UN resolutions I got passed:
Why didn't I try for the diplomatic win? Well, based upon the SG voting, I really didn't think I'd win. In fact, with Huayna being in the running for a space race win, I thought he'd abstain.
The Single Currency one was very nice--I think it increased my revenue by around 70 GPT. That and producing wealth in a few cities allowed me to run research at 90% late in the game and research Future Tech 1. Yep, gotta milk that score!
Speaking of which:
...and power for the whole game:
...and for the last 50 turns:
I never really led here, and you can see why I buddied up with Cyrus! No one could touch that guy, and therefore me.
Demographics:
I was finally #1 in most categories at the end. Conquering Mongolia was vital to this win.
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
None of my cities are in there! Who cares, I won!
Statistics:
And, last but not least, my score:
Certainly not my best score ever (my Asoka score beats this one all to hell), but still in "Augustus Caesar" territory. This also seems to me to have been the closest match of all the ALCs thus far. In all the others, I seem to recall going into the last round with the end never in doubt; in this game, things seemed unresolved and tense until about 10 turns before the end.
So let's talk about why it turned out that way.
As I mentioned a couple of times previously, I felt I misstepped early on. A couple of you pointed out I was getting distracted pursuing the unique unit, and you were right. And I realized that, which is probably why I then turned around and delayed researching Horseback Riding. By the time I was able to produce Numidian Cavalry, they were pretty much obsolete. In my defense, like many players, I rarely get much use out of Horse Archers in the first place, so I'm not used to pursuing HBR or utilizing the first type of mounted unit (not counting Chariots).
I think another factor there was the game speed. I've been thinking of changing the speed of the ALCs to Epic, which is my usual off-line speed, and I will do that in the next game. The main purpose of the ALC series is to highlight each leader's unique traits, and the UU is a big one. It got short shrift in this game partly because of the game speed. I don't want that to happen in future games, so using the slower speeds that allow longer use of each era's units should give us more of a chance to see the UUs in action. Hopefully this will help when we get to an ALC for Mongolia and have to put a UU based on Horse Archers into action again!
In retrospect I really think I should have built Stonehenge, and maybe pursued the Oracle as well what with that early source of Marble. I had to build monuments in almost all of my cities, and I'd much rather devote early builds to something better. While the utility of Great Prophets has been nerfed in the Warlords patch, they're still valuable, and Stonehenge and the Oracle guarantee at least a couple of them.
As it turned out, I did follow the original game plan of playing peacefully for a long time--I just did it in the opposite order of that which I'd intended! This also ran counter to exploiting the traits. As some of you pointed out, Charismatic really benefits from early wars, where you can rack up so many promotions so quickly and have a stack of powerful veteran units down through the ages. Once again, I think my on-again, off-again pursuit of the UU distracted me from this, and the wars came very late as a result.
In some ways it was a very simple game. The low number of rounds attest to that. Once I was so obviously behind, the only way out was via some very big, long-term goals (conquer Mongolia, research and build the Internet) that meant all the smaller decisions were pretty much made for me.
The game did open my eyes to some elements that I normally give little regard: the Internet, Artillery, and coal plants.
This is exactly what the Internet is for, I think: an all-out, desperate, balls-to-the-wall gambit to leap-frog ahead in techs for a space race win. I could see it being very useful on the higher levels in that regard--would any Emperor, Immortal, or Deity players care to confirm or deny that? And I feel rather proud that I managed a space race win not only by coming from way behind, but without my usual bag of tricks: no late golden age, no Space Elevator, no Three Gorges Dam!
As I mentioned before, I've never used so much Artillery before. They are an awesome unit and a crucial counter to Machine Guns. They themselves have no counter until Marines come along.
And coal plants! In the absence of the Three Gorges Dam, nuclear plants, and hydro plants, they were crucial in boosting production to get the space ship parts built, despite their health issues. I'm gradually growing more comfortable with allowing cities to lapse into that sickly green state. I also saw why so many of you disdain Medicine as a dead-end tech--by skipping it over to pursue Genetics, I saved valuable time. Genetics' free +3 health took care of most of the problems, and a few of Refrigeration's Supermarkets did the trick for the rest.
The game certainly could have gone better, but a win is a win is a win. Nevertheless, I look forward to any additional insight you folks can offer!
First off, here's a look at the map of my continent at the end of the game:
I could have been building things like units, but what was the point? I just wanted to finish the game with a minimum of micro-management, so hence the wealth/research builds.
Victory conditions:
Cyrus actually had only 1 or 2 turns left on the SS Cockpit, but he lacked Fusion for the Engine. He'd made several research diversions for things like Mass Media and Composites. Perhaps he had to do so to keep ahead of his neighbours in power. Still, while space race may be the AI's preferred victory condition, I find that it often isn't that great at pursuing it, as Validator said above. Unlike a focused human player, the AI seems more easily distracted by other shiny techs, wonders, and buildings. And that's something strange to say about a computer compared to a human.
Just for interest's sake, here are the UN resolutions I got passed:
Why didn't I try for the diplomatic win? Well, based upon the SG voting, I really didn't think I'd win. In fact, with Huayna being in the running for a space race win, I thought he'd abstain.
The Single Currency one was very nice--I think it increased my revenue by around 70 GPT. That and producing wealth in a few cities allowed me to run research at 90% late in the game and research Future Tech 1. Yep, gotta milk that score!
Speaking of which:
...and power for the whole game:
...and for the last 50 turns:
I never really led here, and you can see why I buddied up with Cyrus! No one could touch that guy, and therefore me.
Demographics:
I was finally #1 in most categories at the end. Conquering Mongolia was vital to this win.
Top 5 Cities/Wonders:
None of my cities are in there!
Who cares, I won! Statistics:
And, last but not least, my score:
Certainly not my best score ever (my Asoka score beats this one all to hell), but still in "Augustus Caesar" territory. This also seems to me to have been the closest match of all the ALCs thus far. In all the others, I seem to recall going into the last round with the end never in doubt; in this game, things seemed unresolved and tense until about 10 turns before the end.
So let's talk about why it turned out that way.
As I mentioned a couple of times previously, I felt I misstepped early on. A couple of you pointed out I was getting distracted pursuing the unique unit, and you were right. And I realized that, which is probably why I then turned around and delayed researching Horseback Riding. By the time I was able to produce Numidian Cavalry, they were pretty much obsolete. In my defense, like many players, I rarely get much use out of Horse Archers in the first place, so I'm not used to pursuing HBR or utilizing the first type of mounted unit (not counting Chariots).
I think another factor there was the game speed. I've been thinking of changing the speed of the ALCs to Epic, which is my usual off-line speed, and I will do that in the next game. The main purpose of the ALC series is to highlight each leader's unique traits, and the UU is a big one. It got short shrift in this game partly because of the game speed. I don't want that to happen in future games, so using the slower speeds that allow longer use of each era's units should give us more of a chance to see the UUs in action. Hopefully this will help when we get to an ALC for Mongolia and have to put a UU based on Horse Archers into action again!
In retrospect I really think I should have built Stonehenge, and maybe pursued the Oracle as well what with that early source of Marble. I had to build monuments in almost all of my cities, and I'd much rather devote early builds to something better. While the utility of Great Prophets has been nerfed in the Warlords patch, they're still valuable, and Stonehenge and the Oracle guarantee at least a couple of them.
As it turned out, I did follow the original game plan of playing peacefully for a long time--I just did it in the opposite order of that which I'd intended!
This also ran counter to exploiting the traits. As some of you pointed out, Charismatic really benefits from early wars, where you can rack up so many promotions so quickly and have a stack of powerful veteran units down through the ages. Once again, I think my on-again, off-again pursuit of the UU distracted me from this, and the wars came very late as a result. In some ways it was a very simple game. The low number of rounds attest to that. Once I was so obviously behind, the only way out was via some very big, long-term goals (conquer Mongolia, research and build the Internet) that meant all the smaller decisions were pretty much made for me.
The game did open my eyes to some elements that I normally give little regard: the Internet, Artillery, and coal plants.
This is exactly what the Internet is for, I think: an all-out, desperate, balls-to-the-wall gambit to leap-frog ahead in techs for a space race win. I could see it being very useful on the higher levels in that regard--would any Emperor, Immortal, or Deity players care to confirm or deny that? And I feel rather proud that I managed a space race win not only by coming from way behind, but without my usual bag of tricks: no late golden age, no Space Elevator, no Three Gorges Dam!
As I mentioned before, I've never used so much Artillery before. They are an awesome unit and a crucial counter to Machine Guns. They themselves have no counter until Marines come along.
And coal plants! In the absence of the Three Gorges Dam, nuclear plants, and hydro plants, they were crucial in boosting production to get the space ship parts built, despite their health issues. I'm gradually growing more comfortable with allowing cities to lapse into that sickly green state. I also saw why so many of you disdain Medicine as a dead-end tech--by skipping it over to pursue Genetics, I saved valuable time. Genetics' free +3 health took care of most of the problems, and a few of Refrigeration's Supermarkets did the trick for the rest.
The game certainly could have gone better, but a win is a win is a win. Nevertheless, I look forward to any additional insight you folks can offer!
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!! you finally did it
Lance of Llanwy
King
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 710
Congratulations! Really, you had me going there! I'm pretty certain of that, despite all of its new buffs, the AI is still just the same old AI that cannot demonstrate the same focus and drive as a human player, and it most certainly showed here. It was somewhat poorly played(no worries, I tend to dither over everything imaginable and end up paying the price), but the power of the ALC group mind and your own ability to straighten things out in crunch time saved the day. Soooo...whose next? Toku? Brennus? Either way'll be interesting. It's a shame that the Numidians didn't get as much of a spotlight, but I'm sure financial helped out in the end, powering your mad dash for the Internet...
Excellent game, Sisiutil.
I would agree that the Internet and the production boosts were key to the win and you pursued them diligently. Nice work.
I wonder though. Would you head back to an earlier save and see if you would have won diplomatically?
I would agree that the Internet and the production boosts were key to the win and you pursued them diligently. Nice work.
I wonder though. Would you head back to an earlier save and see if you would have won diplomatically?
ratrangerm
Prince
Very nice work in pulling out that win.
The Internet is something I could never really quite understand why it came so late given its benefit, but now I see how it can work into a strategy. And it seems like Warlords makes it better than it was in Vanilla CIV.
Once again, nice job on snatching that victory.
And hopefully, the next Civ you take, we'll get to see more from the UU and the Civ's traits. Am I correct that Toku is up next, or are we backtracking to grab on of the Civs added in Warlords?
The Internet is something I could never really quite understand why it came so late given its benefit, but now I see how it can work into a strategy. And it seems like Warlords makes it better than it was in Vanilla CIV.
Once again, nice job on snatching that victory.
And hopefully, the next Civ you take, we'll get to see more from the UU and the Civ's traits. Am I correct that Toku is up next, or are we backtracking to grab on of the Civs added in Warlords?
aelf
Ashen One
You've been having it easy. I've had much closer space races before 
I must say that the Internet gambit is really the winning strategem here
We've seen how a less-than-optimal game (though by no means completely dismal) can be turned around by a brilliant move or two. Now, promise that you'll focus on the leaders' traits and unique features in your future ALCs 
I must say that the Internet gambit is really the winning strategem here
We've seen how a less-than-optimal game (though by no means completely dismal) can be turned around by a brilliant move or two. Now, promise that you'll focus on the leaders' traits and unique features in your future ALCs
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Definitely! It was ironic that the extensive research required for the UU led me to downplay the Charismatic trait--i.e. delaying and then deciding against any sort of early war, which would have led to an army of veteran units with several of those cheap promotions.You've been having it easy. I've had much closer space races before
I must say that the Internet gambit is really the winning strategem here
However, I was able to take advantage of Charismatic in the war with Mongolia. I produced 5 Macemen with CRII and 6/8 XPs out of Utica. All of them earned CRIII quickly and were upgraded first to either Riflemen or Grenadiers, and later to Infantry. And part of the reason the Artillery were so useful was also because they earned CRIII much quicker than they normally would.
But the war with Mongolia would have gone much better if I'd been able to start it with an army of ultra-promoted vets. Then again, if I'd conquered most of Japan and/or Zululand, war with Mongolia might not have been necessary.
On another note, looking back on this game, it's startling that I built so few wonders. I can only think of two, the Great Library and the Internet. And I got beat to just about ever race there is--the free great people, Liberalism, and so on. But I won the race that counted for the win!
That's the one encouraging thing I and others should take from this game: it's obviously not necessary to build all those wonders in order to win. And just because you fall behind in techs and power and lose out on several in-game races doesn't mean there's no chance of winning! Definitely something to remember if I get discouraged in an off-line game.
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
you play so fast, aelf is way behind you now. he began emc4 before this game, and you finished first
Sisuitil,
first of all congrats on pulling off a win I have NEVER been able to do (I love to abuse tanks and nukes lol to steamroll the ai to a dom win)
how about a gaming change of pace, and to reinforce the usefullnes of the chairsmatic trait?? WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR
I would suggest the persians for this particular goal.. chI/ Imp is monsterous and underestimated. easily able to spam out a few cities, run a SE and mass produce immortals like there is no tomorrow through agressive use of the whip. then procede to beat the crap out of the nearest ai opponent who foolishly settled near your empire. great generals flow from this strat, resulting in either a single city producing level 3 or 4 units, or 4 cities by medieval producing at a signifigant production bonus from the academies. and god forbid if you also get the great wall.. combat within borders producing 200% great general emergence.. I instigate wars just to make GGs!!
frankly I'd love to see another warmongering game
if not whos your next choice??
your interest in posting the ALC keeps me interested in this game.. thanks ever so much
NaZ
first of all congrats on pulling off a win I have NEVER been able to do (I love to abuse tanks and nukes lol to steamroll the ai to a dom win)
how about a gaming change of pace, and to reinforce the usefullnes of the chairsmatic trait?? WAR WAR WAR WAR WAR
I would suggest the persians for this particular goal.. chI/ Imp is monsterous and underestimated. easily able to spam out a few cities, run a SE and mass produce immortals like there is no tomorrow through agressive use of the whip. then procede to beat the crap out of the nearest ai opponent who foolishly settled near your empire. great generals flow from this strat, resulting in either a single city producing level 3 or 4 units, or 4 cities by medieval producing at a signifigant production bonus from the academies. and god forbid if you also get the great wall.. combat within borders producing 200% great general emergence.. I instigate wars just to make GGs!!
frankly I'd love to see another warmongering game
if not whos your next choice??
your interest in posting the ALC keeps me interested in this game.. thanks ever so much
NaZ
flamingzaroc121
Emperor
while as he said at the end of the Asoka game he doesnt want to do the same strategy of continuing to to take over his continent, but maybe he will want to go back to the war mongers life
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Well, as I said, this game became very simple in several respects, requiring long rounds to accomplish a series of straightforward goals. During the war with Mongolia and the run up to the space ship, I thought of ending the round and posting, but realized there wasn't much point, since the goal needed to be accomplished and everyone had laid out the course that had to be followed.
The Asoka game, in contrast, required a lot of "course corrections", and I really believe I won that one because I made the rounds so short and solicited advice frequently.
Anyway. Thanks for all the words of encouragement and congratulations.
The next game will get us back on the anal-retentive alphabetical track: Japan and Tokugawa. It'll be at Monarch level still, but at Epic speed to ensure I get more use out of the UU than in this game. I'll start it sometime next week.Everyone have a good weekend!
Nice win!! 
I'm shocked that Cyrus built the UN -- do you know if Toku ever bothered to start it? I wonder if the Mass Media sidetrack is what cost Cyrus the win, that Wonder-grabbing fruitcake. (Just HOW MANY Wonders did Cyrus build in Pasargade???)
It's a shame we didn't get to see Hannibal's UUs & UBs in action; not many coastal cities for Cothons (toldja, you should've played an Archipelago map) and Numidians became quickly obsolete...it's difficult, however, to leverage a horse archer UU, you basically have to research HBR early (thus delaying your research towards more important techs) or get lucky and pop it from a hut. Perhaps building the Oracle & taking HBR as the free tech would've given them more use; in that case, you might've been able to take the Pyramids away from Shaka which everyone was drooling over at the beginning.
Looking forward to the next ALC...and yes, switching to Epic speed is a good idea...and maybe play an Archipelago map...archipelago archipelago...did someone say archipelago??
I'm shocked that Cyrus built the UN -- do you know if Toku ever bothered to start it? I wonder if the Mass Media sidetrack is what cost Cyrus the win, that Wonder-grabbing fruitcake. (Just HOW MANY Wonders did Cyrus build in Pasargade???)
It's a shame we didn't get to see Hannibal's UUs & UBs in action; not many coastal cities for Cothons (toldja, you should've played an Archipelago map) and Numidians became quickly obsolete...it's difficult, however, to leverage a horse archer UU, you basically have to research HBR early (thus delaying your research towards more important techs) or get lucky and pop it from a hut. Perhaps building the Oracle & taking HBR as the free tech would've given them more use; in that case, you might've been able to take the Pyramids away from Shaka which everyone was drooling over at the beginning.
Looking forward to the next ALC...and yes, switching to Epic speed is a good idea...and maybe play an Archipelago map...archipelago archipelago...did someone say archipelago??
Archipelago is fun, but I'd save that for Ragnar 
As the next game is going to feature Tokugawa, I think we're going to see some warring.. Although the new Toku seems to be a serious techer too, and not too shy of religions either. I wonder which personalities got swapped in the patch :/
As the next game is going to feature Tokugawa, I think we're going to see some warring.. Although the new Toku seems to be a serious techer too, and not too shy of religions either. I wonder which personalities got swapped in the patch :/
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
that was so cool! finally a game that convinced me the internet has a use. no offense to jerVL/kg (your thread was entertaining but it sure didn't show the internet useful in a sane sense 
). getting 7 techs from it, some of them vital space race ones, and then ending up tech leader and with a future tech to boot--awesome! wave bye-bye to the losers as you head to alpha centauri hehe.
i do love charismatic, and getting xp early on really does make it shine. but there are other cha leaders you'll be playing to show it off early, and you did get good use out of it here too.
yup, change the ALCs to epic, we'll all be better for it i think. i thought i'd hate playing it, but i tried it for a cultural victory game and now it's the speed i use for most games. playing a marathon one atm, i rushed to engineering to build hagia sophia i dunno if i ever wanted a wonder so bad before!
and another note to jerVL/kg ... i already thought you were crazy, and now you add in liking archipelago maps? sheesh! i personally don't like them, i'm the 'this is my land, that land is your land (until i decide you die)' type. i have learned tactics from reading other threads from people playing on them, but i like S's method of not changing any settings other than leader (going to warlords, bumping up difficulty were all called for). your decision of course, and if the games start to feel repetitive i'm sure gonna nudge you to change maps etc rather than retire from the series altogether!
great game, great thread, great reading, as always. and altho the suspense did drive me crazy, it kinda was more fun having to wait in anticipation for you to write it up *giggle*. i have so much fun with these!!!
). getting 7 techs from it, some of them vital space race ones, and then ending up tech leader and with a future tech to boot--awesome! wave bye-bye to the losers as you head to alpha centauri hehe.i do love charismatic, and getting xp early on really does make it shine. but there are other cha leaders you'll be playing to show it off early, and you did get good use out of it here too.
yup, change the ALCs to epic, we'll all be better for it i think. i thought i'd hate playing it, but i tried it for a cultural victory game and now it's the speed i use for most games. playing a marathon one atm, i rushed to engineering to build hagia sophia i dunno if i ever wanted a wonder so bad before!
and another note to jerVL/kg ... i already thought you were crazy, and now you add in liking archipelago maps? sheesh! i personally don't like them, i'm the 'this is my land, that land is your land (until i decide you die)' type. i have learned tactics from reading other threads from people playing on them, but i like S's method of not changing any settings other than leader (going to warlords, bumping up difficulty were all called for). your decision of course, and if the games start to feel repetitive i'm sure gonna nudge you to change maps etc rather than retire from the series altogether!
great game, great thread, great reading, as always. and altho the suspense did drive me crazy, it kinda was more fun having to wait in anticipation for you to write it up *giggle*. i have so much fun with these!!!
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