ALC Game 22: Arabs/Saladin

The State of the World, 380 BC

Let's start with a look at the map now that, thanks to my Woodsman III Warrior and my work boat, I've explored the entire continent. The first, south-eastern half of the map shows Arabia and France:

ALC22_380BC_22.jpg


Like I said, that's the only source of iron within my reach. In addition, you can see that Lyons, built by Louis to claim the horses, has made the silver-fish-crab city a non-starter. Its Creative-powered culture has already claimed those two ice tiles west of the silver--so even though those tiles are far enough away from Lyons to found a city, I now can't. I suspect Louis will found a city down there before too long. I'll just have to take it from him later on.

But the good news is most of my other city sites are still available. I think that site NE of Rheims that OTAKU spotted is too close to the French city I just mentioned. But the sheep city midway between Sakae and the capital is still available, as is the southern copper-sheep-fish-silk city, not to mention the two cities in the northeast that we'd planned--no one's going to get to those, not with Arabian culture now soaking the area.

Here's a close look at the northwest portion of the continent, which is mostly Ottoman, but with some barb thrown in.

ALC22_380BC_23.jpg


Some additional calendar resources there--more incense, sugar, and dye; and, of course, Sully's gems on top of that. As you can see, both Louis and Suleiman have sources of iron. And there's one copper tile up for grabs in between their territory.

The continent is also relatively small. Furthermore, my work boat ran out of tiles it could reach out west, so it's heading back east, but I'm becoming convinced that me and my 2 Confucian buddies are isolated.

Given the size of the land mass and the resources available, I think we need to plan to take over the entire land mass. That means teching towards Construction for Catapults so I can attack Louis. After that, I carry right on and take down Suleiman with Medieval units, including the UU. I need to do this before either of them can get to their UU--both of which are based on Musketmen! Just my luck. By claiming all that territory, I'll have several extra resources I can trade with the other continent once Astronomy comes along. In addition, the earlier I get that done, the sooner I'll be able to recover.

On to other things. The Domestic Advisor:

ALC22_380BC_15.jpg


Once Damascus finishes its Granary, I think it should start on a Madrassa. I want to transfer responsibility for running specialists to this city from Mecca so the capital's citizens can work cottages and/or work mines instead of plugging away in the lab. I also want to take advantage of Spiritual's cheap temples in Sakae to fend off French cultural pressure. I'm not sure about a Madrassa, though--if I'm planning on taking on Louis soon, it may not be worth it. A barracks and units may be better.

Foreign advisor, techs:

ALC22_380BC_20.jpg


I'm researching Monarchy. What I'm hoping is that Louis--who, thanks to espionage, I can see is researching Monarchy as well--will be willing to trade a "cheapened" Monarchy to me for Alphabet. I think I'm safe from Suleiman trading Alphabet to Louis thanks to the tech exclusivity rule. (Sully won't trade Mathematics (with Alphabet) to Louis because as far as Sully can tell, he's the only one who knows it; ditto for Louis trading Metal Casting--obviously his Oracle tech--for that Maths/Alpha combo, since he's the only one he knows of who has MC.)

After I get Monarchy, I think I'll need to self-research Mathematics and then Construction to get going after Louis. Once that's done, I think I'll need Currency and Code of Laws in order to deal with the economic fallout from the wars. Mind you, some of these are the AI's favourite techs, so I may be teching myself out of tech trading options. Thoughts?

Religion Advisor:

ALC22_380BC_17.jpg


So two cities with Confucianism, two with Islam. I'm hoping Louis will be a pal and send Missionaries to Mecca and Damascus for me. And that he'll generate a Great Prophet and build a shrine I can take from him. That seems likely; he also built the Temple of Artemis, and if it's in the same city as the Oracle (which seems likely), he'll have a GP before too long. Yes, Louis is playing as we expected him too, wonder-monger that he is. All the more reason to kill him and take those prizes from his cold, dead fingers, IMHO.

Resources:

ALC22_380BC_19.jpg


Another reason to move the SW city to claim that copper tile: I then have an extra resource I can trade to Suleiman for gems. Unless he snags that unclaimed copper tile...

Power:

ALC22_380BC_21.jpg


Troubling. Good thing I converted to everyone's favourite religion. But this is all the more reason to go after Construction and build an army. As Iggy Pop sez, eat or be eaten.

And that's it! I think I've got a plan for the next round, but of course I want to use everyone here as a sounding board and make adjustments as needed.
 
I think that site NE of Rheims that OTAKU spotted is too close to the French city I just mentioned.

Not necessarily. The 4 best tiles are either away from Rheims in the bay (Clam & Fish) or right next to the city (2 Floodplains). You can easily hold those tiles with a Madrassa. Together, the 4 are worth +9 food (4 specialists .. just enough to fill the Madrassa ... or plenty of whipping fodder. :mischief:).


As much as I'd like to see you play nice, I look forward to watching a smackdown.
 
please trade that gem in, it would be very handy.

I suggest teching to Literature. so that u could trade for Mornachy and Maths then head for Construction, followed by Currency and CoL
 
You can trim Louis back faster with just Spies and Swordsmen.
 
Cough cough early religion cough cough wasteful cough cough.

Looks like a typical catapult war. You need another commerce city beside the capital, I think. None of his cities are on hills, but since he has iron, he'll have axes if you try to sword/spy rush. Your barb city is kind of subpar.
 
Getting hold of monotheism and jumping straight into OR would be my suggestion - makes your whipping 25% more effective in Confu cities

(and makes missionarizing your non-confu cities easier if we get meditation, and Louis stops sending his missos over)
 
Getting hold of monotheism and jumping straight into OR would be my suggestion - makes your whipping 25% more effective in Confu cities

(and makes missionarizing your non-confu cities easier if we get meditation, and Louis stops sending his missos over)
 
Looks like a typical catapult war. You need another commerce city beside the capital, I think. None of his cities are on hills, but since he has iron, he'll have axes if you try to sword/spy rush.

So what? It should go without saying that you'd bring your own axes too.
 
But with going to construction, you get math which is on the way to currency which will be absolutely necessary post war. Sis will also the be able to do collateral damage and still reduce city's defences with spy failures. I think the take over of this continent is the most solid plan.

So tech/trade for monarchy first, then math, construction, COL, currency. Any unnecessary diversions like monotheism or literature will make a war with Louis, more difficult, longer, expensive and harder to recover from.
 
Another vote for trading for Sulys gems. You don't need the health now but definitely need the happy. I still think you should settle all your good sites then get your economy in order before you attack Louis. Of course there is always the take AI cities economy where you rely on pillaged gold to keep you afloat. Not a bad idea either.
 
If you're going for war then OR shouldn't be a priority as you should be building units anyway. It will be interesting to see what's happening with theology and AP.

What's the plan for the next round?
 
It hasn't paid off, but was worth going for. There was a chance we could of spread Islam around our Continent, but were beaten to it.

Was it really worth going for? What would have been the point? Were we still going to take all of the French cities, including the Holy City? Wouldn't a shrine there ultimately serve as well? We've converted to Confucianism in order to maintain good relations -- the same thing that would have happened if we had somehow spread Islam to both those Civs. Madrassas allow for later religions through Great Prophets anyway.

About the only benefit I can see is that Suleiman and Louis don't have opposing state religions, so we won't get hit with "Do X with other Civ" demands. What else is there?
 
please trade that gem in, it would be very handy.
I have no excess resources. What should I trade for it?
Cough cough early religion cough cough wasteful cough cough.
As with many things in this game, it's a gamble. Sometimes it pays off. Sometimes it doesn't. Then again, the last time I tried an early religion grab, with Isabella, things turned out much the same way. Hmmm...

Of course, in some games where I deliberately don't pursue an early religion, I end up with no religions at all, or not the one I want. Sometimes even my neighbours don't go after them, and there's no religion on my continent until Astronomy... :crazyeye: :lol:

It's like taking an umbrella with you everywhere you go. It doesn't rain until the day you forget it at home. :D
You can trim Louis back faster with just Spies and Swordsmen.
You think so? Everyone tells me that, and in every game where I've tried it, the EPs required for an early city revolt have been mind-bogglingly high. I really think that's only a possibility in the early game if you build the Great Wall, pop a Great Spy, and use him on an infiltration mission. And frankly I'd rather use those EPs to grab techs--it's unusual for my first war target to also be the best target for tech-stealing too.

Catapults are, in so many ways, easier to obtain and are also more reliable. Besides, I still have room to expand, which means there's time to tech to Construction. What's your hurry?
 
Was it really worth going for? What would have been the point?

Roleplay value. :D

EDIT:

Sisiutil said:
Then again, the last time I tried an early religion grab, with Isabella, things turned out much the same way. Hmmm...

Having moved up to Monarch fairly recently, I've noticed a pattern like this too. The AI is much, much better at spreading religions so even if you found an early one the odds are you won't convert the world unless somebody else does it for you. I think it may have to do with the AI getting increasingly higher bonuses at higher levels so they can afford to spam missionaries and still stay in the game while you build more useful things just to keep up. At noble or below it always seemed pretty easy to convert the AI.
 
I have no excess resources. What should I trade for it?

If Sul is pleased with you he would probably just give you the Gems. If not I would trade your cows. It is something I do in a lot of my games as it gets you the traded resources + earlier and doesn't really cost you anything unless your desperate for the health. I tend to trade pig, sheep etc as early on they don't get the double health benefit with wheat/granary etc.
 
So two cities with Confucianism, two with Islam. I'm hoping Louis will be a pal and send Missionaries to Mecca and Damascus for me. And that he'll generate a Great Prophet and build a shrine I can take from him. That seems likely; he also built the Temple of Artemis, and if it's in the same city as the Oracle (which seems likely), he'll have a GP before too long.

I think the temple of artemis makes great merchant points, so louis' pool will be diluted. you can always hope for the shrine though.
 
If Sul is pleased with you he would probably just give you the Gems. If not I would trade your cows. It is something I do in a lot of my games as it gets you the traded resources + earlier and doesn't really cost you anything unless your desperate for the health. I tend to trade pig, sheep etc as early on they don't get the double health benefit with wheat/granary etc.

I'll often look for a meat->grain trade (even if I have only a single resource) for just this reason. Long term trade gives +diplo too.

As far the the current game goes -- despite a somewhat slow start -- it looks like Sisiutil has the time and space to recover nicely. An eye on a catapult war still seems like a good idea.
 
Of course, in some games where I deliberately don't pursue an early religion, I end up with no religions at all, or not the one I want. Sometimes even my neighbours don't go after them, and there's no religion on my continent until Astronomy... :crazyeye: :lol:

With the Madrassa to access priests specialists, wouldn't an option to pursue a late religion have been the safer bet, using a Great Prophet to bulb something like Theology? If some other Civ on the continent gets a religion for you, so much the better.
 
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