ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon

First of all, this post isnt really pertaining to this ALC at hand. I was diligently following it through and I felt I really need to just register an account to post what I felt. First off, thank you so much for your efforts. I have learnt so much about CIV from everyone who posted here.

Let me tell you guys something, I was a horrible CIV player. I have been playing around with it since the days of CIV1 and yet I can never get past the initial difficulty (Settler - Warlords). Yes, it was that bad. Even if I did luckily win for some reason or other during the lower difficulty levels, it was through space race or time victory. Any difficulty above that, I just tried to build lots of settlers trying to get as much land as early as possible, closing open borders, or just refusing to research it first and then getting the rest of the land on my side. Then i happily build my civ til I lose the game.

I play wars games like ROTK also, so I dont give in to threats much. So when they asked me for gold, I always refuse them taking diplo hits. I also never figured out how to use slavery (I love to grow my civ happily) and I liked to rush for wonders while teching aimlessly through the tech tree. And when it comes to tech trading, I refuse to trade a more advance trade for something which is less advance. Meaning I will never trade my 200 bulbs tech for a 150 bulbs tech, thinking why should I help my enemies to win the game? And furthermore, I could never win any wars. My army were just built as defence.
As for civics, I loved using all the beginning civics since they cost me no upkeep, not knowing the others are much better. Furthermore, I love to found religion. Once I had this game where I was buddism founded, while the rest of the world were hindus. And for some reason I could never switch to Islam cos it didnt get spread to my cities. I ended up being -4 to everyone in game for the whole game.

I came looking for FAQs, Tips etc. But I found out, I cant learn much. I would really need a replay or something. Until I chanced upon this thread. The slow pace of it and the different thought processes thrown in really allows me to analyze and see things from the angle of those who have already "seen the light". I have really learnt so much.

I went back and played a Noble game, as Japan. And with my first Axe rush killed off 1 Civ, not before sueing for peace and all his techs. Then I built up to Samurais and Cats and killed the biggest AI Civ on my continent, in the same time mopping up a pathetic US stuck in a small corner with only 3 cities in 1500AD. All these time while maintaining tech leader, army advantage and gold advantage with 90% research during wartime. Granted, many of you would laugh at the simplicity of a Noble game. But to me, it was a huge thing. I have never really understood the finer points of the game, mechanics and diplomacy.

Thank you all so much, I hope to enjoy this game on a higher difficulty soon.
 
From Round 11:
Sisiutil said:
Shortly after this, Mehmed declared war on Ragnar.
...
By now he was at war with both Darius and Mehmed, so I had to bribe them both to keep Ragnar from becoming their vassal.

Hahaha, so much for:
Ragnar is only a candidate for a Pass 3 Total War (which seems to be the least likely war in civ, if the AIs don't have too high costs for units).
CIV and its random numbers...

As to Hannibal's huge drop in power:
IMHO it is very unlikely that this is the result of his Ex-Vassal Pacal breaking free from him. Pacal voluntarily became Mehmed's vassal shortly after and there is no comparable increase in Mehmed's power.
So instead I suspect it is due to Hannibal's true commitment to go for Culture with a :culture:-slider >=80% or something! With no beakers per turn and low taxes he will enter financial-trouble-mode (Inflated Costs > 60% of beakers + taxes income; >68% when aiming for cultural victory). The following evil "while-loop" in CvPlayerAI::AI_doMilitary() seems to let him disband all excess units that have <2XP until he is not in financial trouble anymore or has a UnitCost of zero.
Code:
[SIZE="3"]while (AI_isFinancialTrouble() && (calculateUnitCost() > 0))
{
	if (!AI_disbandUnit(1, false))
	{
		break;
	}
}[/SIZE]

You seem to avoid Coal Plants. If this is because you are intimidated by the threat of Global Warming, please read further down in the thread bjam posted. Coal Plants and unhealthiness from power have absolutely no effect on Global Warming!

But the most interesting thing about the current save is, Mehmed has is hands full!
This means that he decided to consider starting a war and found a valid victim during the following checks (AI_doWar). He is currently pleased with you and Justinian, cautious with Hannibal (+Izzy) and furious with Darius who is therefor also his worst enemy. It appears he is heading for him, he hates Darius, has a higher power than him and has declared on him before.

But wait, this table shows whether a victim is a valid target for the respective wars or the reason why not.

WarVictims.png


Darius is (just as described for Ragnar above) only a valid target for a Pass3-TotalWar and even this is rather uncertain, because Mehmed is afraid of distant enemies (he has a MaxWarDistantPowerRatio of only 50). So in Pass3 he checks whether the victim's power is lower than his defensive power (his own + power of vassal Pacal) multiplied by 1.5 * MaxWarDistantPowerRatio/100.
Short (P_Darius < 0.75*(P_Mehmed+P_Pacal)) ? WAR : PEACE.
All of this will only be tested for the case that he considers a TotalWar and doesn't find a valid victim in Pass1 and Pass2. So what about Hannibal? WAAAAARRRRR!!! (Hanni is not liked enough, weak enough, a valid LandTarget and shares a long enough border with Mehmed to become the only possible Pass1 victim and will therefore be DoWed.)
 
Hey, the AI might not, though. Remember Sal and his great SoD that did......absolutely nothing? Hmmmmm.

Odds are for Mehmed attacking Hanny, though.
 
If I read correctly then a war between Hannibal and Mehmed is possible. If that is the case then the taking over of Pacal might still be a good deal. As I said with the proper warplan you can take over his cities in a couple of turns but it will net you in some crazy good cities (especially 1). After that you either backstab Mehmed more (who will be concentrating on Hannibal) or you just forego this plan and doubleteam Hannibal together with Mehmed.
 
I'm not 100% sure about this, but it sure looks like that you probably won't hit the land requirement if you make BOTH Justinian and Hannibal vassals. It may even be really close if you make Justinian a vassal but capture all of Hannibal's cities.

It's pretty clear that Hannibal will be the first AI to meet a victory condition if you don't do something about it, but I am not sure if your victory will be best achieved by stopping him right away. To be fair, all you really need to do is launch a massive assault on one or more of the culture cities (when you are ready) and you won't have to worry about him winning anymore. At least, I am pretty sure that's all you need to do.
 
Hmm. That's strange, in my games GW always went away after spamming RC's everywhere. I guess it could have just been coincidence...

In any case, RC's *should* lower GW, whether they currently do or not. Otherwise, what's the point of the Kyoto Protocol? :dunno:

Changes for version 3.17:
Global warming in forests and jungles just removes those features, without turning plot to desert
Global warming takes into account the number of forests and jungles in the world
Global Warming is affected by unhealthy buildings in addition to nuclear explosions.
The global warming mechanics have changed a bit in 3.17, maybe that's why you remember different results. :undecide: :dunno:
 
The global warming mechanics have changed a bit in 3.17, maybe that's why you remember different results.
That's what I was talking about. GW was never a problem prior to 3.17 (unless I went crazy with nukes...heh) but ever since installing the new patch, GW always creeps in during the late Industrial/Modern age. Building forges isn't a problem, but once you start building drydocks/factories/airports...yikes! :eek: Typically I lose 6-8 tiles per game, which is why I said Sisiutil's lucky that GW hasn't been a problem until now.

On the bright side, when GW strikes a forested tile, it only destroys the forest w/o changing the tile underneath -- which seems to be the biggest advantage of saving forests. It also seems to be more likely to strike tiles which are adjacent to desert already...I had one desert city lose THREE valuable tiles in one game, including two grassland hills and a pig. :(
 
Capitulate Justinian then go the Pacal/mehmed route. This gives you a foothold Hannibal's continent. With Justinian as a vassal and your own large size Mehmed should capitulate after losing the core cities.
Make sure all your important babylonian cities have a theatre/colloseum so that you can use the culture slider to deal with UN resolutions until you take Carthage.
When you DoW on Paccy/mehmmy instruct Justinian to deal with Jelling and Jute or just send a tank or two yourself. Jelling will fall fairly quickly with it's teaming hordes of defenders. If you consider two cavalry a teaming horde
 
Hi sisiutil,

I've been reading loads of ALC threads now, never posting that much, but just wanted to show you a quote you made earlier:

Maybe it means I'll never graduate beyond Monarch level with Civ IV, but you know what? I'm finding Monarch is my level. I still get challenged (especially with the Better AI mod) at Monarch

Pretty funny imo :D.
 
So can someone explain how Pacal kept up with Justinian, and even passed at some points, in tech? Justin has more land, large cities....
 
The UN will most likely stop the war, so dont let that vampire get out of it without paying! Vassalize him! (why would the ai accept peace for so much this turn btw... seems a bit odd with the UN deciding next turn).

Well and you know the drill, attack that fool hannibal and raze one of his cultural citys! Not much else to say really..

O yeh.. Get those destroyed tiles back on line!
 
So can someone explain how Pacal kept up with Justinian, and even passed at some points, in tech? Justin has more land, large cities....
I suspect his shrine city had a lot to do with it.
 
Back
Top Bottom