ALC Game 29: France/De Gaulle

Nice round, the situation looks less worrying now :lol: :goodjob:

Some more stuff:
-> try to avoid researching technologies AIs already have. (IW, alpha in this round). Exception: obsolete techs in order to unlock big trades (meditation when looking for a philo trade for instance)
-> WFYAGTA (or whatever it's called ;)): the malus works with all met AIs. In your case trading with Mao before killing him didn't help in the sense that the other guys know that you did it. Each AIs have a threshold, a number of techs. If you trade for more techs than this number the AI stops trading (ex Shaka has 5 iirc, so when you get your 6th tech via trades, he will stop trading with you - provided he agreed first, diplo matters here too-). Mansa has 25 as threshold so you want him to stay a little longer around! That's why it is bad to trade for ancient techs generally (as always sometimes it's worth it, but you better have a very good reason to do it).
-> Go for currency earlier (when you went for alpha was the time imo).
-> Less world wonders (though now you did Mausoleum, u need the Taj :lol:), more national (where are your epics ? :p) ones.
-> Now you secured some land, u should slow down with the whip and grow your city while winning the lib race.
-> grass hill versus specialist: specialist only in the city which is growing your next great people, or if you are at happy (or health) cap. Otherwise green hills win the day (green hills are equal to rep specialists ie 2 food for 6 yields -better if riverside- and allow growth).

Cheers

edit: more practical advice: switch to COL for one (or two turns) then trade for COL and currency against aesthetics.
edit2: I see vrasnam wondering... do whip Mao! you don't want to deal with the unhapiness forever.
 
Great job on the last update and war. The only question I have is why build the Statue of Zeus?

Real Answer: When I opened up the city screen I had the option of building a wonder, so I did.

Fake (but smarter) answer: I am planning to win a domination victory in this game. I made that decision mostly because of my war-mongering neighbors. Given that we'll be warring on and off (mostly on) for the next thousand years, denying an AI the Statue of Zeus will make our job slightly easier. Couple that with the fact that we're industrious and have access to ivory which means a very fast SoZ, I decided it was worth it to deny it to the AI.

Great war Benginal. Good choices. I would propose to wipe out Mao completely. I hate the "we yearn for our motherland" in later stages of the game.

I agree with this entirely. The motherland happiness hangs around forever and it's really annoying. Also, Mao is on his last legs, I can't imagine there's any meaningful force in his northern city on the continent. And two war elephants will definitely take out that archer on Mao's island city.

I wouldn't have settled the GP though seeing that in the long run he will give you more money and gives you a good wall street city. Right now it would already be +3 gold per turn and this will increase further off setting the beaker and hammer advantage for a few turns. Oh well, good chance that you will still pop one.

Your logic is sound. Also, I probably will pop another one at some point in the game and building the shrine will make a lot of sense then, especially now that Confucianism has spread more.

BTW WONDER MADNESS!!!! Love the fact that 3 cities are building wonders and it looks like you will get them too. Currency is a must now with only +19 at 0% research. I would really go for that one asap. Huayna is a good target for metal casting after a few turns so you won't loose the colossus.

I love my wonders, :mischief:. With an industrious leader and access to ivory, stone, marble, and gold, what can you expect me to do?

Do you plan to wipe Mao completely out (the north island city will seriously delay your attack on toku)?

I do. I think getting that north island city won't take as long as you think. I have some elephants standing by and galleys all over the place. It should take about ten turns. If I do decide to declare war on Toku, I can do that anyway, regardless of if I'm still at war with Mao. There's no rule says I can't be in two wars at once, :D.

-> try to avoid researching technologies AIs already have. (IW, alpha in this round). Exception: obsolete techs in order to unlock big trades (meditation when looking for a philo trade for instance)

Alphabet was probably a mistake. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking at the time. Iron Working I wanted right away, and since I didn't yet have alphabet, I thought self researching was a good idea.

-> WFYAGTA (or whatever it's called ;)): the malus works with all met AIs. In your case trading with Mao before killing him didn't help in the sense that the other guys know that you did it. Each AIs have a threshold, a number of techs. If you trade for more techs than this number the AI stops trading (ex Shaka has 5 iirc, so when you get your 6th tech via trades, he will stop trading with you - provided he agreed first, diplo matters here too-). Mansa has 25 as threshold so you want him to stay a little longer around! That's why it is bad to trade for ancient techs generally (as always sometimes it's worth it, but you better have a very good reason to do it).

Well darn that. Does this mean that the other two AIs I haven't met yet don't know about my trade with Mao. If that's true do I have some incentive to not meet those AIs if I can help it?

-> Go for currency earlier (when you went for alpha was the time imo).

Yupyup. Definitely should have done that in retrospect.

-> Less world wonders (though now you did Mausoleum, u need the Taj :lol:), more national (where are your epics ? :p) ones.

The National Epic is going up in Paris to make use of all the wonders I've built there. The Heroic Epic is going to be built in Shanghai, but I need to build a barracks there first.

-> Now you secured some land, u should slow down with the whip and grow your city while winning the lib race.

This is interesting. Everybody else seems to be calling for war of some kind.

-> grass hill versus specialist: specialist only in the city which is growing your next great people, or if you are at happy (or health) cap. Otherwise green hills win the day (green hills are equal to rep specialists ie 2 food for 6 yields -better if riverside- and allow growth).

Alright, I had a sneaking suspicions I should have been working the green hill. Thanks for the clarification.

switch to COL for one (or two turns) then trade for COL and currency against aesthetics.

Sounds like a good plan.

edit2: I see vrasnam wondering... do whip Mao! you don't want to deal with the unhapiness forever.

I'm on it.

War with Elephunts vs. War with Musketeers

Tokugawa is still at least two techs from getting longbows. So my army of catapults, elephants, and stack defenders can deal him some serious damage. I think the amount of damage I can do is too great for me to not take advantage. That being said, this is an ALC and our purpose here is to make the best use of leader's traits, unique unit, and unique building. I think the best way to do this is going to be to use Musketeers in conjunction with Knights. Curis are too far away in my opinion. Hopefully we can take out half of Tokugawa's empire with our current army mix. Then declare peace and start the war again later with Knights, Musketeers, and Spies. To do this most effectively, I'll tech Machinery -> Guilds -> Gunpowder. This shouldn't take too long and will give me time to accumulate some espionage points against Toku and Ragnar. With our modern, quick-moving army I think we should be able to finish of Toku and take down the rest Ragnar. Unfortunately this goes against RRR's advice who promoted chilling until winning Liberalism.
 
Yes yes, you are doing wonderfully. Times 3. Almost 4. Fantastic! Maybe unwise, but very flavorful. And a healthy expansion, delicious!

Look at that lovely trade income, now build some harbors! When you have stone you may even consider a castle in select cities, not a priority, but fun to do. And yes, coastal cities, get them, get them, yum yum. Meet new civs and trade with them.

AH, Mr. Capac joins the party. Serve him a drink and make him feel at home, you want him relaxed and feeling generous . . .
The map is getting more interesting as well, I love the surprises of a fractal map. Again you see the advantage of exploring thoroughly early on, oh little island, where are you?

Double iron, I guess there had to be some iron somewhere with that dearth of copper. That's a nice little bonus having two.

With 9 catapults I would have taken one turn to remove the city defenses, I'm surprised you didn't. Sure they aren't great at bombarding but with that many they get the job done. Besides, I always find myself running out of them so if I can save one or two from an unnecessary demise I will do so unless really pressed for time, which I didn't see being the case here.

Shanghai would be a good HE site, but Beijing would as well and it's coastal and can therefore also produce ships. It looks to be a fairly watery map, it might be worth building the HE there. Then again, Shanghai has considerably more hammers, never mind.

Between Olmec and that (coastal!) barb city are horses, nobody ever died from adding horses to their arsenal. Take the barb city before Toku does. Wait, I'm mistaken, after taking Olmec there is still Chinese territory up north, I guess you would need that city, which isn't coastal and won't pay for itself as quickly. Hmm.

Orleans is going to grow in 3 turns but doesn't have an improved tile to work. You can run an engineer though to help you finish the Parthenon.
Lyon has 15 turns for the Colossus. I love wonders and actually love the Colossus but with more Chinese cities to take and not having copper I'm not sure about this build.
Guangzhou will have better trade income when it grows. Some farms and a whip-stop seem prudent there. ToA and GLH, very tempting to max that out.



QUESTION 1: Should I have been building barracks or catapults?
Don't know, I like barracks, good for the whole game.

QUESTION 2: Should I have joined Mao in Confucianism?
Hmm. It will make you less popular with trading partners and you aren't in OR, so I think not.

QUESTION 3: Should I have settled him or saved him?
Toss up. Leaning towards should have saved him.

QUESTION 4: What would you have researched and why?
Compass, you know why.

QUESTION 5: Should I be working the grassland hill instead of running a specialist?
Do you want to increase growth or research?

QUESTION 6: Is this logic right? Anyone care to explain the workings of WFYABTA with me?
Yes, your logic is right for civs that you have yet to meet, trade now to have more trades available with them later, but for civs you have already meet it is not, trades with Mao count against the limits set by Ragnar, Toku, and Capac as in the post from RRR above. Civs unmet don't know about the trades and the rest do, it's that simple.
 
Couple of small suggestions - improve the incense near your capital - plains incense is a good tile. Also Lyons could do with a few more tile improvements - it's working coast because you have four unimproved grassland tiles. I'm not sure six workers is sufficient - you have nine cities and will shortly have two more. (sure I won't be the only one to say this!). I like the write-ups - nice and clear.
 
Diplomacy

Well it's not going very well here. But I don't need any friends. I've got my wonders to keep me company.

(AIs are hating. They won't open borders. But I will weather the storm. What do I care if the AIs are all jerks. I've got my wonders to keep me warm.)

Anyway, I don't see much point buttering up Ragnar. I think I'll try to keep Huayna from getting too pissed off. I think Toku is a lost cause. The other two AIs will probably be a little bit more amenable to opening borders and trading, but overall I plan on going this game alone.

War


Taking out some of Toku with more Elephants and Catapults seems like a good idea. He is far away from Longbows and/or Castles, so he should be easy pickings for the first while. After that we can re-assess.


Tech Options

  • Currency: I should have researched this a long, long time ago. I'm half way through researching this particular technology and it seems like a good idea to trade for it right away with Huayna. The extra gold will help incredibly, especially since I have ten cities which will each get a trade route with a city on a different continent.
  • Meditation: I'm hoping to get this in the trade with Huayna Capac. It will also allow us to build the the Shwedagon. It's not necessary though.
  • Monotheism: Nearly every city has Confucianism, but I haven't yet converted. OR is a very useful civic to be in when building, but I don't think I'll be doing a lot of infrastructure builds in the near future. So I think this tech can also wait.
  • Code of Laws: An important pre-requisite technology along the Liberalism line. It also let's us build courthouses. At the time being, my cities are smallish and close together, so maintenance is not that high. This suggests maybe skipping code of laws and getting to Civil Service through Feudalism, which is certainly novel.
  • Drama: This could be useful to get early for building the Globe Theatre in Beijing, which is going to be whip troop central.
  • Music: A free great artist to settle in our Capital for the beakers, or to start a Golden Age with whenever we wish.
  • Philosophy: This tech allows faster great people, which are important when your empire has as many cottages as ours (one).
  • Machinery: Windmills and watermills and on the way to Guilds.
  • Engineering: This is an expensive tech, but it will let us build trebuchets.
  • Compass: Harbors.
  • Optics: We would need to have this researched if we want to pop Astronomy from Liberalism. It will also let us get the whales online in Nanjing. Finally, we can build some more powerful boats for meeting the other two AIs and defending against the amazingly annoying barb galleys.
  • Feudalism: On the way to Guilds, and maybe Civil Service. It also lets us upgrade our defenders to longbows which is convenient for keeping a force alive. A longbow can almost single-handedly defend a captured city.
  • Guilds: Knights, improved workshops, and on the way to Gunpowder.
  • Gunpowder: Our UU, the musketeer.
  • Civil Service: Chain farming in this case is going to be it's biggest boost. Bureaucracy isn't terrible, either though.
  • Education: Universities, Oxford, on the way to Liberalism.
  • Liberalism: Free tech. We could easily take Nationalism or Astronomy or we could try and take Military Tradition.

So these are pretty much all of the next techs. Researching all of them ourselves is going to be unnecessary, wasteful, and suboptimal. Remember, we want to pick something as a goal and shoot for it. Researching things along the way for a small benefit is not worth it.

Let it also be noted, that a super-straight beeline is also sometimes silly. This is what makes the good players great -- the ability to know if they have time and if it's worth it to go off the beeline for some other useful things.

Things that I think are worth going for are

1. Curi + Musketeer War. We go along the normal Liberalism path picking up Gunpowder and Nationalism along the way allowing us to take Military Tradition as our free tech. We could then whip Curis, draft Musketeers, and build spies.
2. Curi + Knights. We can get to this much fast by going right to Gunpowder through Feudalism and getting an early and very fast military machine up and running.
3. Observatories and a later war. We try to pop Astronomy from Liberalism and get trade routes, harbors, and scientists up and running for a war with maybe Cavaliers or even skipping to Cannons and Rifles.
4. Artsy Bonus. Get the free artist from Music and get an excellent whip city in Beijing.

So what do you guys think? I'm inclined to go for option number 1. It's a long way away, but I think it gives us the most other useful techs and possibilities for our empire.

Wonders

  • Parthenon: This wonder is already half-way done and very nice for getting out earlier great people.
  • Colossus: I think we have enough coastal cities that this wonder will pay for itself. It's true that we don't have copper, but we are industrious. Also, check out Olmec. That lake will be a bunch of 3:food: 3:commerce: tiles which are superb for most of the game.
  • Shwedagon Paya: Gives us the ability to run Theocracy. Cheap to build. But overall, not a great wonder.
  • Angkor Wat: We already have two settled Great Prophets and more likely on the way. Does the Angkor Wat bonus also give a :hammers: to settled GPs. I'm not sure, but if so it might be worth building since we have stone.
  • Chichen Itza: Yeah, kind of trash. Might be worth it for AI denial purposes.
  • Notre Dame: Free Happiness is cool. I don't think we'll be getting Engineering early enough. But I though I'd add it to the list for completeness.
  • University of Sankore: I like this wonder when I'm spiritual and get cheap temples, but I'm not in this game. I don't plan on building a lot of the religious infrastructure, so this wonder loses all of its appeal.

City Builds

  • Granary: An obvious first build in all of our cities. We need them all to have this since I will be whipping a lot.
  • Lighthouse: I think this will be worth it in our coastal cities. Especially given the likelihood of getting the Colossus.
  • Forge: We're industrious and they're cheap. They make everything else cheaper. They give all our cities another happiness.
  • Barracks: XP's are always welcome. And since we're charismatic XPs are even more valuable.
  • Stable: I'll build a few of these in cities that will be building War Elephants.
  • Library: I'll build these when I have time. I want to run specialists with extra citizens and I'm not going to be going to Caste. So libraries become a more important building. They're also good to have in high production cities so we can get Universities and therefore Oxford up more quickly.

After this infrastructure is up I'll whip/build Catapults, Elephants, and some Archers, Axemen, and Spears to take out Tokugawa with. After the Toku war, we'll add Courthouses and Harbors, but probably not that much else.

Workers

It's true that I have 10 cities and only 6 workers, but I think two or three more workers will cut it. I don't think I need a lot more at the time being. The 1.5 workers per city rule has a lot of merit, but if you're willing to take the time, it's better to just look at your cities and see if you're going to be working unimproved tiles. I will mostly be running specialists or whipping, so I don't need many more workers.
 
Take Med and CoL from Mao for 10 turns of peace after you get him down to that 1 island city, then take him out later.

I'd definitely build Colossus, even without copper. Colossus coast is very good early on and letting a FIN/IND leader like HC get it will make him tougher in the long run.

I'd skip the "astro from lib" plan in favor of MilTrad (I usually get GP after MT). If you have a reliable way to grab 3 GSs to bulb phil, education and lib, it will go very fast once you have CS. Definitely grab the music artist as well - a well-timed GA switch into caste/pacifism with 2 or 3 cities running scientists can do it. ShwedPaya will allow you to do this before you have Phil as well, and would also enable early FR for diplo benefits should the need arise. MilTrad will be far more useful than astro - you're not going up against pushovers on this continent. The AIs will prioritize engineering once they have feudalism up, and pikes are one of the main reasons why medieval war is so painful in CIV. Cuirassiers can dominate for a long time, and the AIs will avoid music if you get there first, so they really don't have a hard counter (especially with draftable musketeers). Get Globe up,grow your cities as large as you can, and whip curis while you draft muskets. You can have a huge army up in no time.

Toku will be far harder to take down than Mao, but you could probably grab a piece of him if you're feeling frisky. Just make sure he doesn't have WEs of his own (he needs only HBR if he has jumbos). Maybe build a spy to scout him out first. It's better than going in blind.
 
@war+diplomacy

interesting how you follow my path of thinking when I played the shadow. Just don't count with Toku being easier then Mao.
But beware with the "neverending" wars your tech rate will be a bit slower.
 
DiplomacyWell it's not going very well here. But I don't need any friends. I've got my wonders to keep me company.

. . .so I don't need many more workers.

Unless you want the company.


But seriously, yes, that all sounds good. I forgot the extra trade route from currency, order up one of those.
 
Round 5: 540 AD to 1110 AD (34 turns)

You'll recall that we were just winding down a war with Mao and as such I was building some infrastructure and wonders, having stopped the production of units. However, I now had 10 cities, and with just six workers getting all my new tiles improved would take too long.



In my two cities that were working on world wonders I inserted workers at the top of the build queue. Workers are a nice thing to whip. The way it works is that I put the worker at the top of the queue, let the city work on it for one turn, then next turn come back and whip the worker to completion for two pop. The overflow goes into the wonder. In many cases, when wonder production resumes the lost hammers are negligible. In all cases, though, we have another worker. So all in all its generally a good move. I'd avoid it in super tight wonder races, but I have no worry we're going to lose either the Colossus or the Parthenon.

I spent a long time thinking about what to tech after Currency finished. We discussed possible options at great length in the previous posts and this is what I ended up deciding to do.



I'm going Drama and Music first. This would allow us to build theatres at our leisure and still have the Globe Theatre in time for the second round of wars. Music is nice for several reasons. One, if we're the first to get to it we get a free Great Artist. Two, if we get to it first the other AIs are less likely to pursue it. We don't want the other AIs having Music because it increases the speed of their culture victories and it is a pre-requisite technology for Military Tradition. The next three techs are just your everyday Liberalism beeline.

I popped a Great Prophet in Paris.



As suggested by many of you, I sent him down to Shanghai to complete the Shrine, which gave us 11 commerce right off the bat.

My last battle with the Chinese was over before it had even begun. I lost one catapult and earned Mao's last city on the continent.





I had a Great General that I had popped a few turns ago and I was considering what to do with him. I decided that with this war wrapping up, I'd be better off settling him since a super warrior, whether it be medic, city raider, or flanker, isn't necessary just yet and the General would give me 3 beakers a turn if I settled him, so I did so in Shanghai.



Things were chugging along nicely in the French Empire. And what's an Industrious leader without his wonders?





Now you're probably thinking we're at peace. And I'm not going to lie, for some reason I thought this too. Then I realized that I was still at war, it had something to do with my citizens asking what war was good for. Anyway, I ceased hostilities for all that Mao had to offer, which wasn't much.



I'm not disappointed though. Code of Laws was on our current plan of techs, and Meditation would let me build another wonder.

The great artist from Music came in, and I decided to settle him.



Golden ages are nice and all. But settling is just so attractive I have trouble resisting. Also, not starting a golden age now means we can start them for cheaper in the future when our empire is bigger and has more tiles to work.

I had a spy go poke his head in Japan and this is what he saw.



:eek:. That's a pretty large stack. Luckily Tokugawa wasn't plotting war. And if he was I wouldn't have minded since I was plotting war on him. Unfortunately the spy got caught the next turn, but at least he got some useful intel before he was ... by the Japanese. Not quite sure what happens to spies in this game, hopefully their deaths are quick and painless.

We meet our new neighbor. Welcome Zara Yaqob, ALC 28 leader. I'll introduce him in a different way for some novelty.



(He's at the top of that list). Don't worry though, he's not that advanced. He had Feudalism and Machinery on us when we first met him, and we had some stuff on him, including Music. Borders were opened the next turn. Also, I'm pleased we got our hands on music. Zara is definitely liable to win a Culture Victory, but without Music (and the Sistine Chapel, *hint *hint) he won't be nearly as threatening.

Another Great Person, also settled.



Here's a cool image.



There are two things I want to draw your attention to. The first is our army. That's what we're going to declare war on Toku with. It will turn out to be a little bit to small for what I was hoping to accomplish. The second thing is the lighthouse + Colossus powered lake tiles. Those are awesome.

Oh right and another wonder.



Now some of you may be picking up on my inability to switch civics when I should. This would have been a nice opportunity to switch into either OR or Theocracy. I didn't, though. I think I played too many Spiritual leaders as a young child, or something.

Here's a look at our Heroic Epic city in action. When cities start to get many multipliers, it become less efficient to whip as the city can do stuff by working tiles.



Shanghai is a funny city. It's our HE city, but also a holy city, and also the only the city in our empire working cottages. My point is though, it was producing two War Elephants every three turns. So no need to whip. Other cities were doing the classic one turn of production into war elephant / catapult followed by a two-pop whip.

Anyway, back to the war front.



Alright, have a careful look around this picture.



You'll notice the troops in his city. But look due east of my stack. That's where Toku's stack is. It wasn't in a city, and I had no idea where it was going. So despite it being in a forest I attacked anyway. In so doing, I wiped out Toku's attacking forces and precluded any possibility of a counterattack.

The next turn I took the city.



The city would be taken back by the Japanese the next turn and then taken back by me a few turns following that. Unfortunately in all the hustle and bustle, the market was destroyed. My plan for the city is to farm/workshop it over. Tokugawa is useless at working those cottages. I might leave the one that is up to a village, but I'm not working hamlets at this point in the game.

Reinforcements arrived, and I took the city back for the last time.



Some micromanagement by my allowed this to happen.



Two turns later.



Here's what happened. I was perusing my cities when I noticed the Guangzhou was 3 turns away from a Great Person and Paris was two. Paris was running away with the GP points and I knew that if Guangzhou didn't get it's GP out soon, it might never do so. So I starved the city which allowed Guangzhou to beat Paris by one turn. Two turns later Paris finished it's next one and voila, two GP in three turns. This way no GP points are wasted in Guangzhou. In case you couldn't tell, I settled the Engineer and built an Academy with the Scientist. The capital now looks like this



I'm probably not doing the WE/SSE justice. But it's working out okay for me.

I sent my stack south to capture the Japanese city that was now disconnected from the rest of the Japanese empire.



Not bad. I had built my six theatres by now, so the dye would increase my happy cap in those cities with the theatres.

I sent a scouting party up into the Japanese heartland to see what I could see.



Sigh, I was hoping to see a few archers defending the city. But that Tokugawa spams troops like no other. Unfortunately I was not able to hit him as hard as I wanted, so I took peace the next turn when my Espionage showed he was five turns away from longbows.



Compass would let me build the harbors that Mec AntiKythera has been telling me to build. Also, the world map would prove surprisingly useful given that it's Mr. Toku the isolationist's.



Yupyup, that's another wonder. You can also look down at the map and see that AIs are lined up side-by-side which will make warring incredibly easy. I'll just take them down one after the other. I haven't met him yet, but the 7th leader is Saladin. He's been warring with Huayna for the past while, as there've been a few Great General born over that side of the continent.

The last realy decision I made this round was what to research after Paper. I chose Nationalism, as opposed to Education, for a couple of reasons. One, I want that Taj Mahal soonish to allow for civic changes. Two, Education can be bulbed. Here's my plan, we build the Taj Mahal, while researching Education with the slider off. We revolt into Pacificism and Caste and force two scientists, a la Kossin, who bulb the remains of Education and then Liberalism (from which we take Military Tradition). At the end of the Golden age we switch into war civics and do as much damage as we can with Curis and Musketeers.

And to finish the round off on a nice note of closure, let's say goodbye to a worthy adversary (not really).





That's my update! I'll post a state of the world shortly. In the meantime, look at the save and ask any questions you have, and give all the advice you care to give.
 
State of the World, 1110 AD

The Empire









The Known World



Some Info















Comments & Questions

  • I'm planning to build both the University of Sankore and Angkor Wat in Paris. I'm just working on them elsewhere for fail gold.
  • I get a GP in three turns. Should I settle him or burn him for a Golden Age?
  • Does a Curi+Musketeer war still sound good with everybody?
 
I did, I couldn't remove the thumbnail without deleting the image, which I have done - how do you keep the image without the thumbnail ?
Instead of remoing the thumbnails from images that you have uploaded to the Civ Fanatics Forums, consider hiding the thumbnails inside of a spoiler tag.

The process is easy enough to do. Here's how:

Spoiler How to place thumbnail images within SPOILER tags :
First, upload your images as you would normally, using the Attachments icon .

After you have uploaded at least one image, you can click on the Attachments icon again. This time, however, instead of immediately loading a Manage Attachments pop-up window, you will have a list of options to choose:
1. The "Manage Attachments" link, which brings you to the pop-up window where you can upload or remove your attached files for the current message
2. The name of each uploaded attachment, listed one per line
3. An "Insert All" option, which appears after you have uploaded 2 or more attachments to a message


Selecting option 2 will place an entry that looks like [ ATTACH]278169[ /ATTACH] into your message. These ATTACH tags indicate precisely where in your message a thumbnail will be placed.

If you do not include these ATTACH tags, then thumbnails are placed at the end of your message by default.


With a little creative thinking, you will realise that if you can control where in your message a thumbnail can appear, then you can place the thumbnail inside of SPOILER tags. Voila! You can now effectively use the Civ Fanatic Forums for uploading your images and still be able to hide not only the larger-sized images (for which you will still have to manually create the links, just as you would have to do for files hosted on an image server) but can also hide the thumbnails, too.


What I have discovered is that if I am uploading a saved game, it is better NOT to include the relevant [ ATTACH]278169[ /ATTACH] tags.

If you include the ATTACH tags, then the saved game just appears as a link and you won't see the stats about how many people have downloaded the save. If you leave out the ATTACH tags for that file, though, then a link to that file will appear at the end of the message and you will see the download counter.


If you have multiple images, then use option 3, "Insert All." The default behaviour of the Insert All functionality is to space out the thumbnails onto separate lines with a blank line in between each image. I prefer the default layout of up to 5 thumbnail images being placed on one line.

So, if I have 9 images and 1 saved game, the "Insert All" icon will do something like the following (note that there would be no space within the "[ ATTACH]" tags themselves, but I put spaces in them so that the forum wouldn't try to render the tags and would let you see what I'm trying to demonstrate):

[ ATTACH]278169[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278170[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278171[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278172[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278173[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278174[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278175[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278176[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278177[ /ATTACH]

[ ATTACH]278178[ /ATTACH]

To make things look a little more professional, I would then edit out most of the carriage returns (aka Enter keypresses aka whitespace), so that there are no carriage returns between the first five sets of attachment tags. Then, I would leave a carriage return (aka an Enter keypress) after the fifth set of ATTACH tags. After that, the remaining four ATTACH tags (for images 6 and 9) would have the carriage returns removed from between them. Finally, I would delete the 10th set of ATTACH tags entirely, assuming that the 10th set corresponded to the uploaded the saved game file.

The result would look like the following (again, without the space within each "[ ATTACH]" and "[ /ATTACH]" tags.

[ ATTACH]278169[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278170[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278171[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278172[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278173[ /ATTACH]
[ ATTACH]278174[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278175[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278176[ /ATTACH][ ATTACH]278177[ /ATTACH]


Here's an example from a recent Immortal Cookbook game.

Please open the SPOILER tag for that message and scroll to the bottom of that message in order to see where I placed the thumbnails using the [ ATTACH] tags--magically inside of the SPOILER tag!

There, since I only had 6 images, I chose to symmetrically split up the thumbnails so that the first half were on the same line as each other, by taking out the carriage returns (Enter keypresses) from between them. Then, with a single carriage return after the third image, I effectively placed the final three thumbnail images all on the next line, again with the next three images having their carriage returns removed from between the tags so that they would appear on the same line as each other.

As you can see from that example, I hid the entire message within SPOILER tags, which effectively hid not only the large-sized image links but also the thumbnails that were "placed" inside of the SPOILER tags using the ATTACH tags.

If you Quote that linked message and then scroll down to the bottom of the quoted text, it should become pretty clear what I did.

Note that it can be a bit hard to "see" where a carriage return was inserted since a bunch of ATTACH tags all placed next to each other without a carriage return in between them will appear to wrap after about the third set of ATTACH tags, but as long as you are accurate with your typing, are willing to Preview your message, or are willing to Edit your message, then you shouldn't be adversely affected by this potential stumbling block.
 
Great round. Game looks pretty much over now, just really a clean-up job and your plan looks solid. You were right to point out civic changes. I mean you built SP and you're still in paganism! Surely a switch to FR will be worth it (you can do it during the Taj GA I guess).
 
settling the Great Artist was your only mistake you did, with otherwise impressive round.

As you can see you need civic switches (bureau, pac, caste hello!). The Music GA is the primal reason I go there when playing non-spiritual leader (how to milk this is best to read some of kossin's let's plays, he does it regularly and I try usually with a mixed results to mimic this approach). And of course you need to switch religion (another turn of anarchy).

So with the GA GA you can seriously look at 4 turns of anarchy spared. Now you plan for TM to solve the mistake that happened 20T ago.
 
So with the GA GA you can seriously look at 4 turns of anarchy spared. Now you plan for TM to solve the mistake that happened 20T ago.

Heh, lady GAGA is it? (couldn't resist :))

More seriously, good play. Although I think that given the land you should have forfeited some of the early wonders and leaned on mao heavier (in a shadow I choked him then took him out with HA), that would have given you better land so much sooner. Then, you can build all the way to musq + cuirassiers (or even knights) and take out tokugawa with the rest.
 
I had a bit of spare time this morning and went through the save.

#1 I'd recommend you get the BULL .dll, you will be able to see the actual yields from the buildings, helping you make the right selection.

#2 I'm not too sure why you got scared of Toku with all the catapults and WEs you have, XBows can't do anything to you. Now next time you go at him, you risk running into LBs or worst, Samurais.

#3 Move up to Immortal ;)

  • Paris is your Bureau capital and NE site, I would really avoid whipping it unless absolutely necessary, not running specialists here is wasting a lot of potential.
  • You did not revolt to Bureaucracy!!! You've lost over 100H and 300C as a result.
  • Your capital is pretty infra-less for this date.
  • Remember, UoS only gives beakers if you are running a religion. In this case, your actual benefit will be 3:gp:/turn of scientist.
  • As a direct result from the previous three, you will revolt very soon to Bureaucracy+Organized religion.
  • Since this would take 2 turns of Anarchy to achieve, you will assign four specialists in Paris right NOW, which will result in whatever GP in 2 turns. This GP is to trigger a GA regardless of its kind from which you can switch into the religion and civics. Remember to share the unused tiles you can if they are better to other cities.
  • This MoM-powered GA should last to just about when you complete the Taj Mahal, leading into another GA. After these 24 turns of GA, you should have no difficulty having 2 more GPs on hand to launch a 3rd consecutive GA and if you plan well, a 4th afterwards. (should the game last that long ;))
  • Odds are Zara will complete the AP as he founded Chrisitanity, your task is to chop out all the forests around Kagoshima and start spreading Buddhism to your cities. Revolt to Buddhism as well.
  • What is the harbor for in Lyons, Olmec?
    Spoiler :

    80H for 1C?

    or 120H for 3.5gold, 2EP etc.... or just anything else.

    The overseas harbors are OK though, worth 4C each.
  • What is the wb for in Nanjing? Are you going after Optics??? Even then, it's better to whip something for 30 OF into the wb.
  • You are wasting 1 food between Olmec and Mauryan. Give the third lake to Mauryan, Olmec will get the unused one and has a ton of farms already to work.
  • Spread your workers a bit more between new cities and get more. Since your goal is Cuirassiers, I'm assuming the whip will come handy so get those food improvements done in the old cities.
  • Sell old techs (Lit for example)
 
Great thread for learning. Read both this and kossins recently, very useful.
 
You were right to point out civic changes. I mean you built SP and you're still in paganism! Surely a switch to FR will be worth it (you can do it during the Taj GA I guess).

settling the Great Artist was your only mistake you did, with otherwise impressive round.

As you can see you need civic switches (bureau, pac, caste hello!). The Music GA is the primal reason I go there when playing non-spiritual leader (how to milk this is best to read some of kossin's let's plays, he does it regularly and I try usually with a mixed results to mimic this approach). And of course you need to switch religion (another turn of anarchy).

The lack of civic changes was definitely a major flaw in that turnset. I'll work on being a little more proactive about using civics in the next ALC as this has been a problem now in both games.

I think in this particular game, I'll be revolting to Pacifism in Buddhism (hopefully) for some GP abuse and hopefully finishing the game with four consecutive Golden Ages. That's the plan anyway.

I'm thinking I'll stay in Representation and Slavery. Switch to Mercantilism if I ever get there. And then revolt into Buro and Pacifism. These aren't exactly "war-time" civics, but I demonstrated that in the last ALC. So in an effort to keep things interesting, and keep up in tech, I'll go with those civics.

#1 I'd recommend you get the BULL .dll, you will be able to see the actual yields from the buildings, helping you make the right selection.

I got it last night. It's not quite as "oooooh" as getting BUG was, but it's pretty neat. I'll take it.

#2 I'm not too sure why you got scared of Toku with all the catapults and WEs you have, XBows can't do anything to you. Now next time you go at him, you risk running into LBs or worst, Samurais.

Yeah, I agree. My stack is pretty legitimate, I probably could have taken a few more cities. If you look closely at the next screenshot (the one where we declare peace), though, you can see that Toku is five turns from Longbows. I had flashbacks to ALC 28 where Redcoats ate through my Oromos and I didn't want to repeat that experience.

#3 Move up to Immortal ;)

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Offline: I play fast and lazy and emperor is still a challenge, :mischief:.
ALC: I think I'll play the next game with Bismark at Emperor. Then with the next leader, Pericles, I'll have some nice traits for leveling up.

  1. Paris is your Bureau capital and NE site, I would really avoid whipping it unless absolutely necessary, not running specialists here is wasting a lot of potential.
  2. You did not revolt to Bureaucracy!!! You've lost over 100H and 300C as a result.
  3. Your capital is pretty infra-less for this date.
  4. Remember, UoS only gives beakers if you are running a religion. In this case, your actual benefit will be 3:gp:/turn of scientist.
  5. As a direct result from the previous three, you will revolt very soon to Bureaucracy+Organized religion.
  6. Since this would take 2 turns of Anarchy to achieve, you will assign four specialists in Paris right NOW, which will result in whatever GP in 2 turns. This GP is to trigger a GA regardless of its kind from which you can switch into the religion and civics. Remember to share the unused tiles you can if they are better to other cities.
  7. This MoM-powered GA should last to just about when you complete the Taj Mahal, leading into another GA. After these 24 turns of GA, you should have no difficulty having 2 more GPs on hand to launch a 3rd consecutive GA and if you plan well, a 4th afterwards. (should the game last that long ;))
  8. Odds are Zara will complete the AP as he founded Chrisitanity, your task is to chop out all the forests around Kagoshima and start spreading Buddhism to your cities. Revolt to Buddhism as well.
  9. What is the harbor for in Lyons, Olmec?
  10. What is the wb for in Nanjing? Are you going after Optics??? Even then, it's better to whip something for 30 OF into the wb.
  11. You are wasting 1 food between Olmec and Mauryan. Give the third lake to Mauryan, Olmec will get the unused one and has a ton of farms already to work.
  12. Spread your workers a bit more between new cities and get more. Since your goal is Cuirassiers, I'm assuming the whip will come handy so get those food improvements done in the old cities.
  13. Sell old techs (Lit for example)

  1. Alright. I'm not sure what I was thinking. I understand the concept as you can see in Shanghai, my HE city, where I didn't whip at all. I guess it didn't occur to me to follow that same principal in my NE city. Silly me.
  2. Yeah, you have to stop assuming I've made obvious civic changes. You didn't go into Rep!! You didn't go into Buro!! I think I get the point though, won't let it happen again.
  3. What would you recommend I build? I don't think I particularly need any of those buildings?
  4. That's true. I like your Buddhism idea though, and I have a lot of cities that can build temples and monasteries quickly, so I think it will be worth it. And also, the GS points are higher than that surely? I've got the Parthenon and the NE (oh, btw, I'm going to switch the UoS to Paris, I'm just building it wherever it is now for failure Gold) and I'll also be in Pacifism soon, which I think makes the GP points a little more worth building it.
  5. So the idea is, OR for a little bit to mass produce missionaries. Then switch to Pacifism for GP points?
  6. On it.
  7. This sounds like a great idea. If my last 48 turns are all Golden Age powered, that would be pretty cool. :).
  8. Okee dokes.
  9. I don't know man. Harbors seem cooler than I think they really are. Question though, doesn't the computer route foreign trade routes to the city where they will get the highest return? Ie, if I build harbors there won't the game send the foreign trade routes there to maximize the trade route income?
  10. I wasn't going to tech it, but I thought having a wb there to be ready for the whales might be a good idea. You're right though, overflowing into it would have been better.
  11. Good catch. My micro skills are still very poor, :blush:. I'll make the change.
  12. The workers were in that big block so that they could make a farm a turn. I was indeed thinking mass whip of curis. But some more workers, now that I'm at peace, is probably a good idea. Especially since I can build them in just a few turns now.
  13. I had similar advice from Sisiutil in the last ALC telling me to trade resources for even just 1 gold as it could make the difference. Selling techs for cheap always just seems a little odd to me. So I can sell Lit to three people (probably) and get 200 gold (probably). Is it worth it to give the AIs that boost? I mean I'm sure it is, since all the good players seem to rely on selling old techs as a part of their strategy. So I'll do it, it just feels dumb selling a tech for 20 gold, no matter how ridiculous it is that the AI still doesn't have it. Now I'm rambling, but I guess the logic I usually hear is if I don't get something for it, then Zara will. Is that right? Any other reasons to sell it other than just the gold? Diplo benefits?

Great thread for learning. Read both this and kossins recently, very useful.

Thanks. Glad you're finding it educational, I know I am, :p.
 
*This sounds like a great idea. If my last 48 turns are all Golden Age powered, that would be pretty cool. :).

*I don't know man. Harbors seem cooler than I think they really are. Question though, doesn't the computer route foreign trade routes to the city where they will get the highest return? Ie, if I build harbors there won't the game send the foreign trade routes there to maximize the trade route income?

*I had similar advice from Sisiutil in the last ALC telling me to trade resources for even just 1 gold as it could make the difference. Selling techs for cheap always just seems a little odd to me. So I can sell Lit to three people (probably) and get 200 gold (probably). Is it worth it to give the AIs that boost? I mean I'm sure it is, since all the good players seem to rely on selling old techs as a part of their strategy. So I'll do it, it just feels dumb selling a tech for 20 gold, no matter how ridiculous it is that the AI still doesn't have it. Now I'm rambling, but I guess the logic I usually hear is if I don't get something for it, then Zara will. Is that right? Any other reasons to sell it other than just the gold? Diplo benefits?

Sorry for getting you into trouble with the harbors, I just like teaming them with GLH. Looking for ways to boost wonders, buildings, traits, or whatever is a fun hobby but not always the smartest move. Poor kid, builds some harbors to get me off his back and then gets questioned as to why he bothered. On the plus side, when those cities grow and you move to FM they won't be worthless, not that you are planning a switch to FM. Oh well.

I'm with you on doubting the selling of techs for spare change, it instinctively seems counterproductive. Yes, you get a few ducats but you help the AI as well. Is it really worth it?

Whip a worker and overflow to wonder, nice tip.

Those Colossus enhanced lake tiles are quite nice, good thing you didn't listen to me on that one!

HC is the 5th most advanced? I'm curious what his land looks like, can't be good. That war won't be helping him tech either of course.

Inability to switch civics? Is this really an ALC game?

Good job getting that GP from Guangzhou, fine micro there. I love that about this game, it pays to pay attention, a player's effort is seldom wasted.

When you say, "We revolt into Pacifism and Caste and force two scientists, a la Kossin" does that mean run as many scientists as possible, even starving a city to do so, to get the GP's out? Four consecutive GAges, for 48 turns? I want to see that!



"And to finish the round off on a nice note of closure, let's say goodbye to a worthy adversary (not really)."

Oh yeah, bye Mao, thanks for all the cities. Who's next?
 
Sorry for getting you into trouble with the harbors, I just like teaming them with GLH. Looking for ways to boost wonders, buildings, traits, or whatever is a fun hobby but not always the smartest move. Poor kid, builds some harbors to get me off his back and then gets questioned as to why he bothered. On the plus side, when those cities grow and you move to FM they won't be worthless, not that you are planning a switch to FM. Oh well.

:lol:. It's okay. I guess we both learned something.

HC is the 5th most advanced? I'm curious what his land looks like, can't be good. That war won't be helping him tech either of course.

I think Huayna relies a lot on wonders and denying him a chance to build any by building nearly all of them myself is slowing him down quite a bit I'd guess.

When you say, "We revolt into Pacifism and Caste and force two scientists, a la Kossin" does that mean run as many scientists as possible, even starving a city to do so, to get the GP's out?

That is indeed what I mean. In his recent Let's Play Hatshepsut game he demonstrated how to get two GPs in a Golden Age. And he did it in 8 turns. He then used the two great merchants later to upgrade a million troops.
 
The old ALCs always posted the game with narrative and pictures in the main block of the post and never in spoilers. As a reader of games I prefer this, since it means less clicking and then possible closing (depending on picture size) of spoilers. However, the thread page does get really long and scrolly and while I have a pretty good internet connection I can imagine that it might take a really long time to load for some people. So, since I don't want to put all the pictures in spoilers, I could put the whole post in one big spoiler.

Also, I'm mostly writing this post so that I can put the next turnset on a new page of the thread. But if anybody has any comments/complaints about the posting style let me know and I'll consider your thoughts.
 
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