Alex Jones & ilk, who will they blame?

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Is there something inherently bad about going backwards?

Not generally. Desintegration, aging, corruption, decadence, return to the roots and many other forms of rectracive movements seem to be often necessary part of the universal nature. In the case of societies it can be quite dangerous movement but I guess you can say the same about progress. The biggest problem I see is that some form of expansive movement forward is usually the drive behind any society and once you begin to loose this kinesis the destructive forces outside and the destructive elements within the society increase their pressure. Is there anything inherently wrong about destruction?

What about slowing down, how's that sound?

Often the wise thing to do in my opinion. But perhaps the best is: "Go as fast as you can and as slow as necessary."

To be honest, I think clinging onto some ideal of progress, be it scientific, economic, or societal, is what brought is into a dilemma in the first place.

That too. But its a complex dynamic of many forces which brought about the present trouble in my view. Blindly sticking to a progressive ideal is usually much less demaging then sticking to a blind instincts. Such as: greed is good.

 

[Lexicus]

One thing I did do was look at Stormfront; it appears that disillusion is already running pretty high there, which is a good sign.

How is that a good sign?

 

[Bootstoots]

I'd rather the Stormfronters be dissatisfied with Trump than satisfied, ideally for some reason other than support of Israel and Jews. It shows that his policies are at least not considered white nationalist ones according to actual white nationalists. The bar for "good signs" has fallen deep underground lately...

Support for him ran fairly high there during the campaign and seems to have declined markedly since his election. Being a comparatively high-class racist site (vs. the rest, ranging from /pol/ to the Daily Stormer), they're a fairly sensitive barometer of where the alt-right is going to go. Far-right ideas seem to start at places like that and end up infecting the Alex Jones crowd, stripped of the most overtly racist language, a little while later. Some of the columnists on unz.com, in particular Steve Sailer, are also worth reading if you're interested in tracking the spread of scientific racism, now rebranded "human biodiversity". John Derbyshire and Pat Buchanan are there too, as are some non-establishment left-wingers including a couple of MMTers (it's an unusual site).

 

[Lexicus]

I'd rather the Stormfronters be dissatisfied with Trump than satisfied, ideally for some reason other than support of Israel and Jews. It shows that his policies are at least not considered white nationalist ones according to actual white nationalists. The bar for "good signs" has fallen deep underground lately...

Fair enough, but this goes back to what I said before the election, which is that these Nazi types aren't just going to disappear any time soon. Who are they going to support in another 8 or 12 years? More importantly, will the Republicans have made such a mess of things that, at that point, "the center cannot hold"?

Some of the columnists on unz.com, in particular Steve Sailer, are also worth reading if you're interested in tracking the spread of scientific racism, now rebranded "human biodiversity". John Derbyshire and Pat Buchanan are there too, as are some non-establishment left-wingers including a couple of MMTers (it's an unusual site).

Unusual, nothing - it's downright surreal.

 

[Silurian]

I'd rather the Stormfronters be dissatisfied with Trump than satisfied, ideally for some reason other than support of Israel and Jews. It shows that his policies are at least not considered white nationalist ones according to actual white nationalists. The bar for "good signs" has fallen deep underground lately...

I am confussed

https://www.stormfront.co.uk/

 

[Lexicus]

I am confussed

https://www.stormfront.co.uk/

I was going to link to the "real" Stormfront but thought better of it (also thought it might be against the forum rules or something)

Stormfront is a big forum dedicated to White Nationalism and Neo-Nazism. The existence of that site (the one you linked) is actually kind of hilarious.

 

[Silurian]

Every one should have a look so it gets upvoted

 

[Bootstoots]

Fair enough, but this goes back to what I said before the election, which is that these Nazi types aren't just going to disappear any time soon. Who are they going to support in another 8 or 12 years? More importantly, will the Republicans have made such a mess of things that, at that point, "the center cannot hold"?

I have no idea where any of this is going. I know what I hope to see happen - that Trump's administration ends up being so corrupt and incompetent that Trumpism collapses and takes a chunk of the alt-right with it - but I know better than to think the odds of that are particularly high. I know Trump does listen to Alex Jones and there's a feedback between the two, which probably means I should fire up Youtube and listen to Alex Jones again. I paid a fair amount of attention to him before the election in part because I was concerned about what his supporters would do when the New World Order won the election, and in part because he's legitimately entertaining, but since the election I haven't bothered.

The UK version of Stormfront is indeed amazing. LOL for real. And yeah, it would break the forum rules to link to the real Stormfront directly, but I certainly do recommend it to people who want to keep tabs on real white nationalists. I can't stand more than about 20 or 30 minutes at a time, but it is pretty illuminating to see what that corner of the internet is like.

 

[Lexicus]

I know what I hope to see happen - that Trump's administration ends up being so corrupt and incompetent that Trumpism collapses and takes a chunk of the alt-right with it

Yeah, but the problem is that this looks to me like nothing but a pipe dream. If actual facts could cause people to turn against Trump, my feeling is that they already would have done so. This comes back to the two worlds problem. If Trump supporters and people inclined to say "Well, Trump's not so bad" thought the way I did, they'd never have supported Trump in the first place. This leads me to believe - I hope I'm wrong - that they won't allow pesky things like Trump's manifest incompetence and the complete failure of his administration to bring about any improvements in their lives to get in the way of their support for Trump or their antipathy to liberals and coastal-elite types (to say nothing of LGBTQ people or the dusky races).

What Trump does when faced with problems is simple: he blames other people. Who better to blame than the most marginalized parts of society, who can't really do anything about it anyway?

This is why Trump's victory is so frightening, I think. Not because he's got a gang of paramilitary goons and a plan to turn the US into a dictatorship - because I think I can see and smell the ingredients for a descent into racist authoritarianism that may be all the more abrupt precisely because it wasn't premeditated.

 

[Bootstoots]

It's not so much actual facts, it's feelings, but those actually can change. A lot of people who voted for Trump didn't like him but thought he was preferable to the DC insiders represented by Clinton. He overwhelmingly won the "dislikes both of them" camp (link). Once he governs in an even more corrupt manner than business as usual, and after large numbers of scandals and general incompetence, those people may turn on him, especially if the Democrats get around to learning how to run effective political campaigns. The sorts of Trump voters who can be swung are the sorts who weren't enthusiastic about him to begin with, and that's a pretty large chunk of his electorate. At most a third of all voters actually support him enthusiastically.

But yeah, it's also true that the risk of racist authoritarianism is very high. It will happen to some extent - criminal justice reforms will be rolled back under Sessions and police will act with more impunity. The state's security and surveillance apparatus will be used more nakedly than it was under Bush or Obama, as well. It's anyone's guess as to how bad things will get on that front.

 

[Hygro]

scientific racism, now rebranded "human biodiversity".

That's really frustrating.