All Things Star Trek

[Laurana Kanan]

TBH it had better special effects compared to B5 .

B5 was the first show to extensively utilize digital effects and was quite impressive for the early to mid '90's. Straczynski pretty much trailblazed their use in all the sci-fi shows that followed. Not to mention the physics are closer to how things would work in the real world - they had extensive contacts with JPL and others. iirc the DS9 station was always just a practical model and I believe it was only in the latter two or three seasons where the ships became digital as well. I know Voyager went digital in their S03 finale.

 

[Ajidica]

TBH it had better special effects compared to B5 .

I dunno, B5 had some awesome space battles!

Of course, part of their awesomeness comes from the outstanding score. Star Trek's scores have always been terrible. Indeed, the only score I can remember is Ron Jones' score for the Borg in TNG.

When the Defiant comes into service, the Alpha Quadrant forces were having an awful time resisting Dominion weaponry. During the season premiere when the Dominion threat was revealed, they showed that Dominion weapons simply negated Federation shields.

They eventually address that problem, and that's when you see scenes about shields getting whittled down, e.g., when DS9 gets attacked or when the Defiant is in combat. The Defiant is a bit different in that it relies more on ablative armour. It can remain in combat without shields.

You have the same problem even in later battles though, where shields simply don't exist.
Sacrifice of Angels battle:

Chintoka Battle:

One could argue that the Dominion's weapons were strong enough to punch through the shields of the Miranda's seen in Sacrifice of Angels, but in the Chintoka battle Klingon Vorchas are shredded like they have no shields.

Plus, there is my whole gripe with DS9/VOY, and to an extent ENT space battles where they feel too much like Star Wars battles (I think I even spotted a Galaxy-class dogfighting in the Sacrifice of Angels battles!). Great big Federation ships like the Excelsiors or Galaxys are swooping around and getting into knife-fighting range. In the few serious battles seen in TNG, they always felt like naval battles, with heavy artillery shooting miles away, not so close they can scratch the paint!
Yesterday's Enterprise battle:

 

[hobbsyoyo]

When the Defiant comes into service, the Alpha Quadrant forces were having an awful time resisting Dominion weaponry. During the season premiere when the Dominion threat was revealed, they showed that Dominion weapons simply negated Federation shields.

They eventually address that problem, and that's when you see scenes about shields getting whittled down, e.g., when DS9 gets attacked or when the Defiant is in combat. The Defiant is a bit different in that it relies more on ablative armour. It can remain in combat without shields.

I don't remember the Dominion being able to cut through shields themselves but I believe their Breen allies did have special weapons that bypassed most Alpha Quadrant shields. IIRC, this meant that the Breen got used as the front line ships in the beginning of the war. At some point some older Klingon ships with defective cloaks were found to be able to reduce the Breen weapons due to those very same defective cloaks and this meant they too got pushed to the front until their defect was intentionally introduced to the rest of the Alpha Quadrant ships.

It's been a while though, I could be wrong.

I wonder if part of the issue is that they were less explicit in depicting shield hits on screen - I imagine that rendering shields in the massive battles of DS9 would have blown through their effects budgets so they just showed hits directly against hulls instead.

 

[Synobun]

The Breen had a weapon that disabled ships.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Energy_dissipator

 

[Sarin]

I don't remember the Dominion being able to cut through shields themselves but I believe their Breen allies did have special weapons that bypassed most Alpha Quadrant shields. IIRC, this meant that the Breen got used as the front line ships in the beginning of the war. At some point some older Klingon ships with defective cloaks were found to be able to reduce the Breen weapons due to those very same defective cloaks and this meant they too got pushed to the front until their defect was intentionally introduced to the rest of the Alpha Quadrant ships.

It's been a while though, I could be wrong.

I wonder if part of the issue is that they were less explicit in depicting shield hits on screen - I imagine that rendering shields in the massive battles of DS9 would have blown through their effects budgets so they just showed hits directly against hulls instead.

Yeah, you do remember it wrong. Against the Odyssey and during 3rd season, Dominion weapons bypassed Federation shields. When Sisko recovered the crashed Dominion ship, Federation got a sample of their technology and managed to adapt their shields to it, IIRC Weyoun even commented on it in Call to Arms. Breen only joined the war near the end with their energy dampening weapon which was something else entirely.

 

[Ajidica]

I wonder if part of the issue is that they were less explicit in depicting shield hits on screen - I imagine that rendering shields in the massive battles of DS9 would have blown through their effects budgets so they just showed hits directly against hulls instead.

Yeah, that's the big one. I believe I saw an interview with Rick Sternbach where he said they stopped showing shields because it would clutter up the battle scenes.*
In fairness, none of the TOS movies meaningfully showed shields, but at least they were acknowledged; that someone had to say "Shields down to 50%" before the director could break out the Explodium.
I'd be fine with them not visually showing shields as long as ships didn't start taking structural damage the moment a phaser was pointed in their general direction!

The huge number of Federation ships that just evaporate in battle really doesn't feel like the Federation, just throwing away crew in ancient Miranda-class vessels (the Reliant we saw back in Wrath of Khan).

*Indeed, in a couple early episodes of TNG (such as Datalore, skip to ~6 min) the effects department tried to be more accurate to the series bible on how shields work. "Officially" the Enterprises' shields are composed of multiple layers to progressively reduce incoming damage, so that if a hit overpowers the outer layer of shields, secondary layers are still available. This was shown on-screen as a second shield bubble. The effects team dropped it because it didn't look good (apparently the execs thought it was an unfinished/bugged effect) and because of cost.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Watched a pretty good documentary on the subject a few years ago, think it is on Netflix still:
Chaos on the Bridge

Not available on Netflix in the US. I was all excited to watch it.

The huge number of Federation ships that just evaporate in battle really doesn't feel like the Federation

In the Discovery universe, vast fleets of ships can be destroyed and then conjured up basically at will so idk

 

[EgonSpengler]

I believe that Sirtis complained a lot about how one-dimensional and stupid her character was and that is what lead to the changes. I think she had a particular bone to pick with the uniform and that was the first step she got the writers to take in changing the character but it was a long, uphill slog for her. I also think I read she almost quit early on due to how dumb her character was but I'm not sure.

iirc, Denise Crosby quit for some of the same reasons, and Yar had it better than Troi did. I also think Crosby thought she could either move into movies or get a show where she was the lead, but I can't remember if she said that or I just assumed that. She did give it a shot. Pet Sematary , and a Fox show called Key West that I don't even remember, and a whole bunch of one-offs in myriad shows before coming back as Sela. Which was awesome. I was glad she did that. Back in the day, tv shows were almost 100% episodic, so that they could go to syndication and the episodes could be watched out of order. "Yesterday's Enterprise" was one of my favorite episodes, and the big reveal of Sela almost 2 years later was amazing. The weaving of years-old plot threads like that was very unusual at the time (it's still not something you see a ton, come to think of it).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Hey guys they found the Nexus irl

 

[Sarin]

Hey guys they found the Nexus irl

Given the way 2020 goes, it's a mirror universe version and we're already inside.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hey guys they found the Nexus irl

Time to start blowing up some suns to get that baby closer so we can all jump into it.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I checked Amazon Prime for Chaos on the Bridge and it's not even available to rent.

It's not even on Netflix-by-mail and that has almost everything!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Was the triple-nacelled 'dreadnaught' class of ships from the TOS era ever made cannon? This beauty was featured in old technical manuals and I think a novel plot or two but I'm not sure if it was every officially acknowledged:



I *think* the Enterprise-D got a third nacelle in the alternate future of the TNG finale but I can't remember.

 

[Ajidica]

I checked Amazon Prime for Chaos on the Bridge and it's not even available to rent.

It's not even on Netflix-by-mail and that has almost everything!

I just checked an apparently it is only on Vudu and iTunes. WTF?
CBS/Whoever picked over Paramount have done a terrible job of treating Star Trek's back history and related products*. Like, CBS All Access just removed a bunch of Star Trek movies. Thankfully I got a chance to rewatch Undiscovered Country before they pulled it. Now they only have Voyage Home, and the TNG movies sans Insurrection.
*Like, Dr Who got a massive shindig for its 50th anniversary, while CBS did basically nothing for Star Trek's 50th. (Which is sort of understandable given, per Valka, the bad blood between CBS and the fan community after the Axanaar fan film debacle.)

Was the triple-nacelled 'dreadnaught' class of ships from the TOS era ever made cannon? This beauty was featured in old technical manuals and I think a novel plot or two but I'm not sure if it was every officially acknowledged:

It was never officially acknowledged, but it generally accepted as canon due to the lack of other ship designs from that period.
(I only treat things seen on screen as 'official' as I've never played any Star Trek video games or read any Star Trek books besides a novelization of The Motionless Picture.)
Three other Constitution 'kitbashes' from the Star Trek Technical Manual did *technically* appear on screen.
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/sftm.htm
The Saladin (one nacelle below saucer), Hermes (two nacelles below saucer like the Reliant), and Ptolemy (a tug) appear briefly in the background on display screen in Search for Spock.

Outside cargo ships/ alien of the week ships, I believe every original-timeline ship that is clearly identifiable has two warp nacelles. A bunch of single-nacelle ships appear as wreckage in Best of Both Worlds, but they were never intended to be visible beyond starship shaped blobs.
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm

I *think* the Enterprise-D got a third nacelle in the alternate future of the TNG finale but I can't remember.

Yep, it did:

(skip ~1:40)
It also got some fins and a phaser-lance that was capable of punching through Vorchas. It also got a cloak.

 

[Sarin]

Outside cargo ships/ alien of the week ships, I believe every original-timeline ship that is clearly identifiable has two warp nacelles. A bunch of single-nacelle ships appear as wreckage in Best of Both Worlds, but they were never intended to be visible beyond starship shaped blobs.
https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm


Yep, it did:

(skip ~1:40)
It also got some fins and a phaser-lance that was capable of punching through Vorchas. It also got a cloak.

Nope, the Stargazer, which was Constellation class, had four, and one piece of Prometheus had one.

BTW those weren't Vorchas, but much bigger ships, the model was later used for Negh'var.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Like, CBS All Access just removed a bunch of Star Trek movies.

Madness! It's the star trek streaming service! It must be super frustrating for CBS to have such difficulties to the rights to their own flagship series.

Also, I had previously seen that Insurrection would get pulled off Amazon randomly even if the other movies stayed. Something weird is going on with that one.

 

[REDY]

Trials and Tribble-ations, another awesome episode of Deep Space Nine. Many great references to Original series.

 

[Sarin]

Trials and Tribble-ations, another awesome episode of Deep Space Nine. Many great references to Original series.

The whole episode is one gigantic TOS reference. And it's one of top 10 DS9 episodes for sure.

BTW, Dulmur and Lucsly even got a pair of, surprisingly good, books.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The whole episode is one gigantic TOS reference. And it's one of top 10 DS9 episodes for sure.

BTW, Dulmur and Lucsly even got a pair of, surprisingly good, books.

The DTI novels by Christopher Bennett?

I couldn't get into them. And after the rude way he acted toward me on TrekBBS, I haven't bought any of his books since.

 

[Sarin]

The DTI novels by Christopher Bennett?

I couldn't get into them. And after the rude way he acted toward me on TrekBBS, I haven't bought any of his books since.

Yeah. Normally I'd stay away from time travel stuff, but these were surprisingly well written in that regard.