All Things Star Trek

[GoodSarmatian]

Oh, right. They mentioned Romulus.
Well, at least there still is a Romulus.
Point is, Enterprise shouldn't have tangled with Romulans. When they were were introduced on TOS they were still an unkown threat that humans had never enountered before and Spock only vaguely remembered from Vulcan history.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Apparently the writers consider Romulans a "dirty word" in the writers room, so not to blatantly contradict their canon. I'd be extremely surprised if we see them.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Which is almost a shame. I like Romulans. The Vulcan/Romulan schism is an interesting exception in a setting where each species is presented as having one unified culture and government.
But they had to make it a prequel to make it compatible with the prime and Abrams timlines.

 

[Arakhor]

Interestingly, the actors of the two gay characters are also gay/queer, which is cool.

 

[warpus]

I know about three words of Klingon, and I doubt it's the actors' fault for not knowing how to speak faster. There are fans who can apparently speak fluent Klingon and it doesn't take them all day to have a conversation. The problem is with the costuming and makeup. Who could say anything buried in all that muck?

I have a read a bunch on the subject and apparently the reason is not the makeup at all. Seems to be a case of the actors being told to say everything 100% correctly, so it's taking them longer to enunciate.

We can do a test - can you read a bunch of Polish and make it sound proper and make it as fast as a native Polish speaker could? No offense but I doubt it!! It wouldn't be easy unless you had been studying the language for months if not longer.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I have a read a bunch on the subject and apparently the reason is not the makeup at all. Seems to be a case of the actors being told to say everything 100% correctly, so it's taking them longer to enunciate.

In that case they need to practice more, before they put half the audience to sleep. There are more than a few people on TrekBBS who say they just mute the Klingon scenes because the slow speech is so annoying.

We can do a test - can you read a bunch of Polish and make it sound proper and make it as fast as a native Polish speaker could? No offense but I doubt it!! It wouldn't be easy unless you had been studying the language for months if not longer.

I can't speak a word of Polish, and readily admit that. If I tried, you'd probably either cover your ears or fall off your chair laughing, and probably both.

The difference is that there are real Polish-speaking people on Earth. There are no real Klingons to care either way, how it's pronounced, and if it matters that much, they should hire a tutor for the actors. I might as well get into an argument with anyone who doesn't pronounce Solamnic words the same way I do (one of the languages in the Dragonlance RPG/novels; I have the sheet music for one of the Solamnic hymns and the words are in both Solamnic and English). Only the language's creators (either Klingon or Solamnic) know how to pronounce it 100% correctly.

 

[warpus]

Does it really sound that slow to you? It just sounds alien to me *shrug* I don't think it's a problem

At first the Klingons seemed different and weird but now I'm used to them

I suspect they did this to make hardcore Trekkies happy. I guess that backfired. Personally I don't really care and don't see it as a problem, it doesn't take away from the story IMO

 

[Synobun]

My issue with the klingon speech is that there are several different series where the language style has been established. That they are 'technically correct' in Discovery bears no meaning to me. They've established a cultural standard for how the language should sound. It should have sharp inflection with a naturally theatrical presentation.

The klingons in Discovery, meanwhile, may as well be victims of a poorly planned home invasion where the attackers put a hot potato in the victims' mouths and then try to smother them with pillows. The long, drawn out subtitled scenes are a hindrance and demand total attention... and in scenes like that there should be some sort of payoff. The payoff certainly isn't any type of win for 'hardcore trekkies' nor is it any type of theatrical display. The klingon scenes are essentially hairless monsters uttering muffled grunts at one another for minutes at a time.

 

[warpus]

My issue with the klingon speech is that there are several different series where the language style has been established.

That's true, but they keep changing how the Klingons look like, how their empire is structured, how they dress, what their ships look like, etc. Not just in this series, not just in the new movies, but in Enterprise, in TNG, etc.

So whatever, this is simply yet another way of imagining the Klingons. At first I thought they were odd, but now I'm over it, like I was each and every other time they reimagined a species

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That's true, but they keep changing how the Klingons look like, how their empire is structured, how they dress, what their ships look like, etc. Not just in this series, not just in the new movies, but in Enterprise, in TNG, etc.

So whatever, this is simply yet another way of imagining the Klingons. At first I thought they were odd, but now I'm over it, like I was each and every other time they reimagined a species

I don't worry too much about what their ships look like, since I have even less ability to distinguish subtle differences in starships than I do in RL cars and trucks (which isn't much).

But there comes a time when there has been so much "re-imagining" of established canon that they might as well just call the show something else, because this series is basically Star Trek in name only. Change a few names around and it could easily be some other show.

I'm so glad I didn't waste my money subscribing to Space for this.

 

[Synobun]

That's true, but they keep changing how the Klingons look like, how their empire is structured, how they dress, what their ships look like, etc. Not just in this series, not just in the new movies, but in Enterprise, in TNG, etc.

I'm not sure this is true. The reimagining I saw on the klingon front was the same 'reimagining' they did with the Ferengi where they didn't know what they wanted to do with them at first and then established an actual identity for the species later on. The TOS klingons were stupid, surely, but that could be chalked up to period limitations and they did a good job of justifying the change in-series. I can't think of any major changes to the klingons beyond the transition from TOS to TNG, and those major changes have stayed consistent throughout the following series as far as I'm aware.

The make-up and prosthetics for the klingon redesign are worse than the klingon make-up from TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. It's not a "we've got new tech and we want to use it" situation since it looks and acts markedly worse than its predecessor. It's a change for change's sake, as evidenced by the fact that they changed everything about them. Even if they were to rebrand these guys as not-actually-klingons, the same problems would bother me. They frame any interaction with this species completely wrong. There's too much static and the payoff is abysmal.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The TOS klingons were stupid, surely, but that could be chalked up to period limitations and they did a good job of justifying the change in-series.

The best explanation of the change between TOS/TAS Klingons and movie/Berman-era Klingons I've ever seen is in the Orion Press fanfic stories. It goes into quite a bit of detail about the various different Klingon races (for example, Kang's wife, Mara, is a different race than Koloth, Korax, and Kor). The change isn't due to any virus; it's genetic engineering/eugenics/genocide.

The stories on that site are pretty good for the most part. If anyone wants the link, feel free to ask. But fair warning; these stories are not for anyone who has a problem with explicit sex (same-sex and hetero relationships), explicit violence, torture, and so on. Don't leave this site open where anyone under 18 can find it (seriously, don't).

 

[warpus]

It's only been 5 episodes but I already think this has been the strongest Star Trek 1st season out of the last couple shows I've followed, and that includes TNG, VOY, DS9, and ENT. I can't speak for TOS though, but I have heard that the 1st season wasn't great either.

Vincour, the Klingons have always been changed, they looked different in TOS, then they looked different in the movies, then in TNG at first they were in the Federation, then they weren't, then they looked different again in the new movies, etc. The way I handle these discrepencies is that I see each story as a story. Imagine you're reading a book and what you're seeing in your mind is what we're seeing on screen. Each Star Trek show will view the Klingons through a slightly different lens. I don't mind that because I'm most interested in the story. At first I was annoyed that the re-imagined the Klingons again, but I like them this way! They feel way more alien. Maybe they just got them wrong the first 10 times.

Everything about this franchise is going to change, from the ships, to the uniforms, to the aliens, to everything else. You might as well accept it or just stop watching, IMO. I don't let stuff like that bug me too much, and focus on the story. And so far I am really enjoying this one

 

[Synobun]

As much as I appreciate the demand that I stop watching media you enjoy if I don't have blind approval of the entire package, I find myself not at all inclined to comply.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well, I already walked away from Enterprise. I guess walking away from this one is even easier, since I only saw the one episode and would rather put the $$ toward the second season of The Handmaid's Tale than this stuff.

 

[warpus]

As much as I appreciate the demand that I stop watching media you enjoy if I don't have blind approval of the entire package, I find myself not at all inclined to comply.

Don't see it as a demand, but rather an observation that it's going to keep happening! So as long as you (the generic you) are watching, you might as well focus on the story and what the current show has to offer in terms of storytelling, and yeah, be critical, but I don't see the point of continuing to watch and complain about everything each episode, that sounds exhausting to me. Personally if I find a show "so not to my tastes at all" I find it a lot more logical to stop watching as opposed to putting myself through the torture of watching things I dislike each week. That's what I did with Harry Potter - I tried to watch the first movie and I couldn't make my way through it twice, so I just stopped watching movies in that franchise and put my time to something that I will enjoy a bit more

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Compared to TrekBBS, Vincour and I are rank amateurs in the complaints department. My major complaints with the first episode were with the Klingons and how chummy Sarek is with his human ward, while at the same time pretending his own son doesn't even exist.

Somebody got a three-day temp ban on that forum for trolling me over this.

 

[Synobun]

I wouldn't really consider the klingon redesign 'everything'. They were a fairly minor part of the last three episodes and I even admitted that I was too quick to vilify the overarching storyline/premise. My primary point through this is that the redesign was unnecessary and doesn't enhance the lore, and its placement in the show itself takes away from the good things it has going on. Besides the weird court martial in the pilot, I've enjoyed everything Starfleet so far.

 

[warpus]

At first I was in a similar "what the hell, why are the Klingons all weird" boat, but since then I've really embraced them. They feel alien to me, and each house is slightly different. They also seem more .. viscious and.. dangerous. I know this won't really sit well with Trek purists, but I prefer this take on Klingons over any previous one

 

[Arakhor]

The Klingon make-up has grown on me slightly over the last month (obvious retort is obvious), but the sloooowwww way of talking that they have is still extremely tedious.