Altered Maps ΙΓ: To make a map larger than what it maps.

[gay_Aleks]

But we reached Moscow!11112!1!

Dunno, Domen. What contained the Polish "empire"? Empty square miles, occasionaly some peasants. Like everywhere in Europe, really.

 

[Domen]

Actually took Moscow. Something that only the Mongols and Napoleon repeated.

But Napoleon was in Moscow for days, while Polish forces were in Moscow for years.

BTW - Lithuania at it's peak had its border about as close to Moscow as the Axis approached in 1941.

Empty square miles, occasionaly some peasants. Like everywhere in Europe, really.

You are underestimating Europe, which is part of the general trend for sadomasochist history popular recently in Europe.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Which furthermore proves mine and all respectable Russian's thoughts - that the Lithuanians are bloody fascists.

I guess.

 

[Civ'ed]

Yeah but it's mostly jungle and jungle. What about the Jagiellonian Empire at it's peak?

Or what if we add the all-time Jagiellonian Empire to the all-time Poland. Etc., etc.

that's ridiculous. Land is still land even if no one lives on it.
Or are you suggesting most of Russia isn't actually land?

 

[Domen]

Empty square miles, occasionaly some peasants.

Poland in its pre-1569 borders had a population density of ca. 20 men / 1 km2.

Not so long time ago (few dozen years) such a population density was in the USA.

that's ridiculous. Land is still land even if no one lives on it.
Or are you suggesting most of Russia isn't actually land?

As you say, land is still land. But question is to what extent did they actually control those jungles.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Sadly, you didn't manage to pull of an economical miracle and dominate politics.

Tough call, eh?

 

[Civ'ed]

As you say, land is still land. But question is to what extent did they actually control those jungles.

You're moving the goalposts. You originally asked for a direct land comparison, not only the smallest nanometers of housing.
as for control, pretty decent, mostly due to a combination of governors and native vassal-like lords.

 

[Domen]

Ok. But in such case Portugal beats all Dutch colonies with just Brazil alone:

Spoiler :

 

[gay_Aleks]

Your point being? We're comparing Poland and the Netherlands. At their greatest extents.

 

[madviking]

It depends what exactly do you expect to read from it ???

well maps usually display information but without much of a key or a legend i can't gain any information from the map, which makes it a bad map.

 

[Domen]

Only land in Europe should count, because savages with wooden sticks were not real enemies.

Ok, just joking.

Well - colonial empires always had more land than empires limited only to the European continent.

well maps usually display information but without much of a key or a legend

I posted a legend: "all border changes during 1000 years on one map".

 

[gay_Aleks]

Dunno man. I think that we shouldn't count in beating states which just survived a nomad invasion scaled only by the one that happened in 1240.

That's right, Domen. You beat a nation that was mercilessly crossed over by nomads.

Hope you're proud.

 

[Domen]

Poland was invaded by the same nomads, and they also inflicted quite a lot of damage here.

For example they killed Henry the Pious, who by 1241 united nearly entire Poland.

But after his death, Poland fragmented again into a dozen or so duchies.

So the battle of Legnica was pretty important, mainly because Henry died there.

============================================

OK - let's stop this discussion and start posting maps again...

 

[Civ'ed]

Ok. But in such case Portugal beats all Dutch colonies with just Brazil alone:

Spoiler :

Ok. But in such a case Russia beats all Portuguese colonies with Russia alone.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Compared to what Russia suffered in the decades after 1240? I'll use a strong word, which probably will be also wrong, but - "negligible".

 

[Domen]

Ok. But in such a case Russia beats all Portuguese colonies with Russia alone.

Indeed.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Exactly like Brazil is currently a Portuguese colony.

"no".

 

[Domen]

Wow, thanks for posting. I didn't know that there was a failed Mongol invasion of Java.

 

[TheLastOne36]

But we reached Moscow!11112!1!

Dunno, Domen. What contained the Polish "empire"? Empty square miles, occasionaly some peasants. Like everywhere in Europe, really.

Less actually. A lot of Lithuania was just forest and swampland. A lot of Ukraine just steppe.

Dunno man. I think that we shouldn't count in beating states which just survived a nomad invasion scaled only by the one that happened in 1240.

That's right, Domen. You beat a nation that was mercilessly crossed over by nomads.

Hope you're proud.

No no no. That was Lithuania that did that. Poland only helped Lithuania annex the Kingdom of Galicia. Besides it wasn't so much "beating" the Lithuanians did as intermarrying and having lords and vassals change loyalties to Lithuania.

Sadly, you didn't manage to pull of an economical miracle and dominate politics.

Tough call, eh?

Yah we can blame Poland's horrible, stagnated, deadlocked political system for that.

I mean just look how much Poniatowski accomplished after the First Partitions once Russians eliminated the Polish Sejm and imposed their own political system! More than the previous 100 years combined!

Yeah but it's mostly jungle and jungle.

Somebody is showing a clear absence of South-East Asian historical context.

What about the Jagiellonian Empire at it's peak?

Or what if we add the all-time Jagiellonian Empire to the all-time Poland. Etc., etc.

No Domen! You can't dismiss other maps and then post "Polan is stronk!". That is why they hate us!

 

[cybrxkhan]

TheLastOne, you are such an unpatriotic Pole, I am horrified and flabbergasted that such a Pole can exist.