Alternate History Thread III

[Lord_Iggy]

@Israelite9191- Of course I value the importance of religion in my NES. It's just that in the economic scheme of things, both behave similarly. Their differences are recognized, but not written stats.

 

[conehead234]

taking Provence

 

[Israelite9191]

@Iggy- Just wait until my NES to see how the seperations can be applied effectively.

 

[silver 2039]

Shouldn't Samarkquand and Bukhara be an eco center or something? Trade from China to the east, Silk Road and all that?

Confirming Golden Horde btw.

 

[silver 2039]

Here;s some intreasting modern world scenarios:

The novel opens with the invasion of the Korean DMZ by North Korea. Next is the phone call from Russian General Razov to American General Thomas, informing him of Russia's intent to recapture land lost to China in a previous conflict. The beginning of this invasion will be the use of tactical nuclear weapons to clear the way for the army. Meanwhile, another Russian general, Zorin, seizes control of the STAVKA and gains access to Russia's nuclear launch codes. As China retaliates against Moscow, Zorin launches against U.S. nuclear missile sites. The U.S. responds in kind, and a political crises erupts as war is declared and the President is impeached.

The novel follows Greg Lambert, an NSA adviser, in the inner governmental circles as the war begins and the Vice President is sworn in. The Army Reserves are called up, and David Chandler reports into March AFB in California, leaving behind his pregnant wife. As the novel follows him from his leave-taking to his assignment as a battalion tank commander, his wife Melissa gives birth and deals with fallout and fear back at home.

The novel proceeds along as conventional war begins as NATO is dissolved, and the U.S. and its new allies begin the invasion of Eastern Europe and Russia. Marines land in eastern Russia, and push west. But, Russia has not launched all of her nuclear weapons, and threatens to launch sub-based missiles at the quickly-emptying 304 largest U.S. cities. The President and Joint Chiefs must wrestle with the failing economy, failing support, and all-out nuclear war, while the Army continues its advance into the heart of Russia.

By the mid-1980s the Soviet Politburo comes to the consensus that the country's economy is stagnating and its military may not retain superiority over the West for much longer. It would therefore be in the interests to the Soviet Union to invade Western Europe with a short, sharp blow, and then sue for peace from a position of strength. The Politburo deliberates two options involving a sudden barrage of nuclear weapons against Western targets, but realising the risk of nuclear war they decide to opt for a third strategy involving conventional forces.

The catalyst for conflict comes in July 1985, when an American Marine unit intervenes against a Soviet incursion into Yugoslavia. In response the Warsaw Pact mobilises and subsequently launches a full scale invasion of Western Europe on the 4th August 1985 (the anniversary of the start of the First World War). Soviet forces thrust through West Germany towards the Rhine, and also land forces in northern Norway and Turkey. Attacks are also carried out using long range strategic bombing, naval forces and even killer satellites in space.

The Soviet juggernaut quickly looses steam. Stiff resistance by NATO, aided by France and Sweden, eventually foils the Soviet invasion, and Warsaw Pact forces get no further West than the German town of Krefeld in the Ruhr by around August 15. From this point onwards the capacity of the Soviet Union to wage war is dangerously undermined by desertion of some of its demoralised allies, internal dissent at home and its own forces mutinying. Outside Europe the Americans bomb Cuba, the Chinese invade Vietnam and overthrow its government (ditto Egypt overthrows Libya), Japan seizes the Kurile islands and the Soviet Navy and merchant fleet is permanently neutralised.

To prove to the world that they are still a force to be reckoned with, the Soviets launch and detonate a nuclear missile over the English city of Birmingham. The West retaliates by incinerating Minsk, which accelerates the collapse of Soviet control in its satellite states. A coup led by Ukrainian nationalists overthrows the Russian politburo, and the threat to the West by Soviet Union is finally ended.
[edit]

Alternative ending

In The Untold Story a separate chapter is devoted to an alternative, more pessimistic scenario, written in the form of radio transcripts and newspaper editorials. NATO forces are unable to defend West Germany, and after the Netherlands falls the West sues for peace. Despite not being occupied, Britain is forced to accept a set of conditions which allows the Soviet Union to effectively control its military, economy and political institutions.

 

[Reno]

The first one's from Arc Light isn't it?

 

[Symphony D.]

The U.S. responds in kind, and a political crises erupts as war is declared and the President is impeached.

I realize this is from elsewhere, but WTH? When nuclear warheads are falling I don't think anyone's first reaction would be "political crisis" or "impeachment". Particularly since this makes it sound like he was impeached for retaliating... which is policy, and common sense. And if Russia only has 304 warheads remaining in Boomers, presumably the US still has a large stockpile too. If that's the best they could do, and pandora's box was already open, we probably wouldn't bother with a conventional invasion. If you fire off a few, you may as well fire off the rest too.

The second one is much less ridiculous and sounds similar to something I sort of alluded to earlier in the second thread, but has the same problems of Gorbachev being in the way, and any likely loss in a conventional conflict under the nuclear umbrella leading to a nuclear showdown at the end ("if I lose, we all lose" mentality).

Reminds me I need to work on my alt-hist... bah.

 

[das]

A coup led by Ukrainian nationalists

Anyone else see the absurdity inherent in the statement?

Here are a few curious, though definitely implausible (if only because they don't seem to have received official backing) and utopian plans I've found recently:

French Bonapartist 1867 map.

American Globalist 1942 map.

Though as already mentioned they are implausible, they still are highly curious and something might be made of some of the ideas there (chiefly the geographic ones, not the "reign of justice" and the benevolent Soviet-backed American hegemony). My personal favourite is the Danubean Confederation in the first one, as that actually COULD have happened. The little British Indian Ocean empire is also curious.

 

[das]

Dachspmg has PMed me, saying that he is working on his medieval althist (the one with the, surprise-surprise, stronger Byzantium) again, and expanding it chronologically into the 12th century and geographically into India.

 

[Swissempire]

Why is ireland part of the Scandinavian Union thing?

 

[North King]

Because Ireland is small and puny.

 

[Israelite9191]

I don't think they are actually part of the Scandinavian union, just colored the same. If you notice Greece and Israel (Palestine? Jordan?) are also the same color.

 

[Imago]

That second map would make for brief, but most likely very entertaining alt-hist. (When the inevitable CCCP - US war started, of course.)

 

[Thlayli]

@Silver: There was a book made of that second althist you posted. I can't remember if it was Red Storm Rising or The Third World War...at any rate, in both the Soviets predictably invade Western Germany, and get predictably beaten back by NATO at a predictably last-second moment.

Though the Soviet invasion of Iceland was entertaining.

 

[das]

Israel (Palestine? Jordan?)

Hebrewland.

(When the inevitable CCCP - US war started, of course.)

What, you mean USSR wouldn't remain US' loyal junior partner for all eternity? The map would've beeen even more interesting had those federated nations all over the world not been demilitarized (and generally became potent regional powers) - that would've resulted in an interesting Cold War, with greater opportunities for De Gaulle amongst some others. Or what about an Indo-Chinese War, with American, British and Soviet interference? Or indeed the British growing less appeasing and trying to reclaim their imperial status (like when the Union of African Republics comes down crashing)...

So yes, a more naive and utopian American WWII leadership might result in a very interesting Cold War NES in the mold of the famous Gelion-Capulet-Stormbringer one.

 

[silver 2039]

The second one would be kind of like Icmancian's NES. Completley unrealistic but extremely fun....

 

[Imago]

I'm actually starting to make a NES map for it, which should be done by the end of the week. I can't mod it, of course, because I already have a NES, but someone else could.

 

[silver 2039]

I'm actually starting to make a NES map for it, which should be done by the end of the week. I can't mod it, of course, because I already have a NES, but someone else could.

I might actually be tempted to mod it. It doesn't look too difficult, not too many nations so not too many stats....maybe...after I come back from TOK camp.

 

[Symphony D.]

Although I've seen the second map before, not even humanity at its stupidest would ever actually agree to conclude something like that. And yes, I am saying whoever created that map was dumber than dumb.

The most ironic part is the USA seizing all these islands for "Peace and Security Outposts" and somehow overlooking the Galapagos which give a straight shot at the Panama Canal.

 

[das]

Although I've seen the second map before, not even humanity at its stupidest would ever actually agree to conclude something like that. And yes, I am saying whoever created that map was dumber than dumb.

And no doubt that was duly recognized by FDR and everybody else. So an obvious precondition would be, as I had already said, a different, extremelly naive American government (to steal a PoD (did anybody here read For All Times, btw? An interesting Cold War althist, though increasingly unrealistic as it goes, with all those nuclear strikes and cannibalism...), FDR dies of a stroke and Henry Wallace becomes President... Later, a reaction against his idealism occurs, reasulting in the protectorates over Mexico and Canada, but the harm has been done).