• Our friends from AlphaCentauri2.info are in need of technical assistance. If you have experience with the LAMP stack and some hours to spare, please help them out and post here.

Alternate Timeline Building Experiment, v1.0

Daftpanzer, what would this 'expedition' to Wikipedia consist of finding, anyway?

He's most likely looking up historical locations of various ancient cultures.

Or he's just goofing off. Goofing off on wikipedia can be easy with all of those links surrounding you. You could start researching Ghengis Khan and end up learning the history of shoes.
 
(got carried away... lots... again...)

Era 3: The First Empires

Map:

(map: click for big version)

Populations were still low, civilization was still relatively new and emerging, but large centralised states were able to appear. This age was unique in many ways. Later empires would often look back to this age for inspiration. Legends would speak of a time of great leaders and great wonders, order and unity. Of course, legends had a way of exaggerating things, and the world at this time was probably as chaotic and messy as at any other stage in history. What we do know is that the first empires did exist, and had the resources and organisation skills to build great wonders, and field large armies.

First to the middle-east, where the Pargian dominance of the Nile was already a thousand years old. Nonetheless it now reached new heights. The central Pargian kingdom, facing no serious threats except occasional civil wars and minor raids by sea-peoples (for which the Pargians had their own ships to guard against), gradually increased its power and prestige. Known at this time as the Pargian Empire, it tightened its grip on the Chakes lands, and sometimes ruled the Hekroi lands directly, depending on the political situation. Most of the surviving records of this time come from ancient clay tablets, buried at the site of an ancient Hekroi library. The great Pargian leaders (none greater than Jonsar I, who had the biggest monuments and the biggest victories) also built huge vertical monoliths in honour of themselves and their achievements, which were carved with additional details (the ancient Pargian pictographs seem largely unique, but show some relation to Ummite characters) - many of these great monuments survived to the modern age.

Clay tablets record a lot of diplomacy between the Pargian Empire and the emerging Khalnur Empire, the latter founded by the invasion of Khaldi tribes into upper Mesopotamia, where they adapted many Ummite customs and became masters of chariot warfare. Its clear that diplomacy often failed, and the Pargians often sent large armies to fight great battles with the Khalnur in order to keep them out of the Chakes and Ummite lands. Bloody battles were fought with bronze axes and spearheads, powerful bows, and fast war chariots. The Ummites were sometimes united by one victorious city (particularly Umur, whose people built a great mud-brick Zigurrat, considered a great wonder by many until its collapse into ruins a few centuries later), but were never united for long. They were only spared Khalnur rule by the latter's distraction on other fronts - the Mitani lands were taken over by the Hannur peoples who build their own kingdom there.

In the Agean, the Mavan culture came to power, perhaps a result of wars and migrations as the Mitani were pushed into western Anatolia. The Mavans also benefitted from a mix of Smaran and Pelonar-Arlitan influences. The importance of the Smara island culture seemed to wane at this time, as Mavan seafarers seem to have controlled sea trade, and spread various cultural ideas from the east to the central mediterranean. The rival Pelonar culture (centred on the small fort-city of Pelonarsus) may have turned its attention to the Black Sea, as there is evidence of trade between them and the Sheshegi peoples of Yiphesh. The Kurzans remained in charge of the steppe, fought off invasion by the Utuap-Sheshegi and forced them south into the vaccum left by the migrating Khaldi, while other Kurzan peoples headed west, occupied the Po Valley and founded the Murettian culture, which - to complete the circle - had some contact with the Mavan seafarers and middle-eastern civilization. Not much is known of the rest of Europe at this time - Bohemoi tribes dwelled near the Alps and continued to improve their metallurgy skills, while the barbaric Aelyn peoples somehow managed to build great stone circles which would mystify countless generations to come.

The small kingdom of Anan-Di, born from a mixture of Khaldi and many different cultures, formed a stepping stone on the sea route to the Indus valley, where Agrian civilization reached another height. But the Jakivat kingdom could not reach the same size as Pargia, due to constant conflicts with northern Khaldi tribes. In the middle where several Agrian city-states which were frequently taken over by the Khaldi and changed allegiances constantly. Both bronze and chariots had reached the Indus, and battles here were just as bloody. Yet Javikat culture thrived, its written language was perhaps the most sophisticated in the world at this time, and as it also changed from an Ummite-influenced pictographic one to a native phonetic alphabet. This was allegedly a personal invention of one of the great kings of Jakivat, and was used to record early theories of geometry and mathematics, as well as many colourful myths and legends for future audiences to enjoy over the next few thousand years. Further south, central India was home to the Kajivati chiefdoms, born from the mixing of Agrian and Kramtob migrants. Although greatly influenced by Jakivat culture, the Kajivati remained relatively primitive and did not have any large cities of their own. On the edges, Kramtob peoples remained widely spread after the movements of the Khaldi - 'true' Kramtob culture centred on the Eastern Caspian sea, although an interesting offshoot was to be found far away, hidden behind the Himalayas, the mysterious Shyin culture - deeply religious people, far removed from old Kramtob warrior traditions, with a unique way of life, and said to have been founded by the mythical, godlike figure known as Kavalo-Bosob.

Now to the eastern shores of Asia, and the largest empire of all - the Wei-Zhe or Weizhe Empire, said to have been founded by (and named after) the great King Weizhe of Henan, using a mixture of force and diplomacy, a tactic copied by his descendents. The influence of Yueren culture and religion was already very great throughout the area, and Weizhe was able to establish Henan as the centre and heart of the culture. Even some of the Hsin-Yuan fell under its influence, especially those who were merging with Yueren people near the coast, forming the Shan-Ren chiefdoms. The people of Weizhe, though not great builders of monuments (although many finely-carved stone shrines have been dated to this time), had renewed interest in the teachings of Jianyu and all cultural matters in general. They may have even invented paper at this time, and their language certainly developed further, although it was still based in deep symbolism and mysticism, as opposed to the slightly more pragmatic approach of the scribes in the west. When it came to warfare, the armies of Weizhe had bronze weapons (introduced by the southern Tianshi who seem to have discovered it separately from the west) and deadly composite bows. Ancient texts of the Weizhe take time out from philosophical matters to talk about the great bravery, morality and discipline of the Weizhe armies. Horses were also spreading east with the Kurzan at this time, but the western Sai-Ren (descendents of the fierce Hsin-Yuan nomads) were only just beginning to acquire them, and they did not play a role in battle in the east. The Weizhe Empire seemed secure, and its influence spread far beyond its borders, even while the ancient city of Henan itself began to decline in favour of other growing cities.

The rest of east Asia had nothing like the urban centres of the Weizhe. The closest thing was the growing fortress-capitol of the emerging Diweishi Kingdom, formed from the earlier Tianshi cultures as a result of chaotic inter-tribal wars. The Tianshi have no written records of this time, so what we know comes from later Weizhe texts, which speak of great battles like the Battle of Mushi with 'one hundred thousand dead' (almost certainly a great exaggeration). Other Tianshi peoples headed west, raiding and conquering new lands, and the exploits of Tianshi leader Kuaikong are often mentioned. The strife between the Tianshi tribes and clans only seems to have invigorated their culture, and certainly sharpened their warrior skills.

Finally, the Americas must be mentioned, unfortunately next to nothing is known of this time. It seems the Oltu and Oltaxl fought endless wars in the Yucatan, while old Talikanan sites were left to crumble into ruins. Later inscriptions speak of a great 'judge' known as Timiquican, who seems to have been a hero of the Oltaxl and 'led journeys across the waters'. It seems the Oltaxl gradually retreated to coastal towns, some perhaps migrating to the central caribbean at this time, although how they were received by the Kuartl islanders is unknown. As a final note, the mysterious mounds of the Panto people were probably built at this time - some see a link to the Oltaxl seafarers there.

Its now around 1900 BC.

Cultures and Factions:
Spoiler :
Bohemoi tribes: honzas_cz
Sarvonian tribes: Lord Iggy
Amestrian tribes: Crezth
Smara (great island chiefdom): flyingchicken
Pelonar chiefdoms: Fuschia
Mavan Sea Peoples: human-slaughter
Washagon tribes: Bestshot9
Oltaxl coastal towns: BananaLee
Xanto tribes: Nick014
Panto mound-builders: Nick014
Zul sea-peoples: mythmonster2
Yiphesh kingdom: lord_joakim
Utuap chiefdoms: lord_joakim
Pargian Empire: Neverwonagame3
Hekroi Kingdom: Neverwonagame3
Jakivat Kingdom: Luckymoose
Khaldi-Agrian City-States: Luckymoose / NPC
Kajivati chiefdoms: Luckymoose / Ninja Dude
Kramtob tribes: Ninja Dude
Syhin chiefdoms: Ninja Dude
Yueren chiefdoms: kkmo
Weizhe Empire: kkmo
Shan-Ren chiefdoms: kkmo / Charles Li
Hai-Ren chiefdoms: Charles Li
Sai-Ren tribes: Charles Li
Tianshi tribes: LightFang
Diweishi kingdom: LightFang
The rest: NPC.


Note that there are some mixed cultures which are under the dual authority of two people, who may well give them conflicting instructions, and I will try to work out what happens.

It can be assumed that there are tribes all over the place. They will get names on the map as and when they become relevant.

Notes:
@kkmo, I hope its OK if I don't use the term 'druids', it seems out of place, as there could also be druids in western europe. Any suggestions for what I could call the religion and/or the people who practise it?

@bestshot9, I can't imagine elk or deer being domesticated, but I guess there would be dogs (huskies?). Also, I can't accept that the Washagan tribes would build a city. They could have villages and ceremonial centres, but they don't have farming and don't live together in such numbers. I'm determined to keep the origins of farming to the usual cradle areas for now, and later it will still need good fertile land. Farming among the NA natives is likely to spread from the east coast as it did historically (according to my information).

@Nick014, I can't imagine buffalo being domesticated either :( I'm afraid that North America will be without large cattle until someone brings them from Eurasia or Africa

@Charles Li, I'm not ignoring you, but I've limited how far the Hsin have travelled, what technologies they have, and how developed they are. I still don't agree with you about horse riding (or much horses in general) in East Asia before 2000 BC. You have full control over the priorities of your people only (IE what they focus on, what they are 'trying' to do). What actually happens is what I'm supposed to decide, else we have a free-for-all and it becomes pointless.

@Abaddon, I didn't want to make up a random name for your offshoot of the Xanto, since that would make the whole thing random. Perhaps you can provide additional details? And I'm afraid you cannot have semi-civilized statlettes in the ancient north american plains of 2000 BC.

@All, I'm determined to keep cities and states appearing too early outside of the 'cradle' areas. What I meant was that empires could form from the states and settled areas that already existed last time, not that unsettled peoples (light grey on the map) could make a sudden jump. Sorry I didn't make that clear :(. I've limited some to 'chiefdoms' for now, which will have some fortified towns at best. It's still early in history, and the developments people wanted will have to wait.

Also, since this isn't supposed to be a competitive 'game', I'm open to any thoughts or suggestions you may have, about how to make this more realistic/interesting!

Neverwonagame3 said:
Daftpanzer, what would this 'expedition' to Wikipedia consist of finding, anyway?

Random things not entirely pertinent to this thread!

Next Era:
Era 4 will be the First Downfall. Prophets are talking of great disasters and invasions to come in the years ahead. There's no doubt that some empires will fall. In the long run, most cultures should survive. The main choice for the empires/kingdoms is whether to try to hold together at all costs (stagnation might not be a good thing), or whether to embrace change and seek some other way forward (dangerous and uncertain). All kinds of migrations are possible. Formerly civilized peoples could become roving marauders, and vice-versa...

I intend to post Era #4 tomorrow, around the time I posted this post today, and it will be very short !!! (?)

Reminder: Please feel free to give any kind of input you want, but a simple list of priorities would be good. Names of great cities and leaders could also be useful, though may not actually appear in the updates for some time. I will accept PM's if need be, otherwise you can just post in the thread. It would be helpful if you could take a second to boldify the name of your tribe/chiefdom/people, so I know what you are talking about, and can easily find that post again...

New Cultures:
These are still accepted at this time, please refer to the template on earlier pages. NPC's on the map can also be claimed.
 
I don't want to annoy a good mod, but in the interests of being fair I will point out that while you aren't under much obligation to get it done fast, it would be good if you said you would get it done later if you would get it done later.

PRIORITIES:

Pargia:
1: The foundation of Meditteranian colonies
2: Exploration of the Meditteranian

Hekroi:
1: Exploration of the Meditteranian
2: The foundation of Meditteranian colonies

For both sets of colonies, Carthage, South Italy, and Sicily are ideal (if unrealistic), Greece (including the Agean) and Crete are next, followed by Cyprus, Nubia, and Libya (EDIT: Libyan colonies would HOPEFULLY survive on fishing plus trade).
 
Sarvonia
Priorities: Military Buildup, Expansion, Power

The powerful mixed military forces of the Sarvonian cultures are starting to spill outwards from their homelands, advancing against Amestris, along the Baltic Coast, and down the Dniepr towards the Black Sea, crushing all in their path.
 
That's a great update. Time to do a miniature version of the fall of the Holy Roman Empire with my two cultures (oho, spoilers!).
 
About the elk and city, no problemo. Perhaps in time both could come? I know they have domestic elk now, but I can understand if you don't want them until more modern ages when people really master the art of domesticating animals (like, we've got domestic tigers and bears and stuff now that people back then wouldn't have ever dreamed of) I guess I was just getting a little carried away ;).

Anways, priorities...

The Whashagon tribes will see the rise of their first great chief, Chief Sondren. He will go on a campaign to unite all of the tribes to follow him and his heirs. (Not a true civilization, just a bunch of nomads spread out all over who follow one leader instead of merely working together but not all feeling like the same peoples.)
 
@Nick014, I can't imagine buffalo being domesticated either :( I'm afraid that North America will be without large cattle until someone brings them from Eurasia or Africa

No problem. I'm happy enough making the Xanto wandering hunters instead of wandering herders. Since I do enjoy creative writing and don't get much of an opportunity to express it in as engineering major, I hope you won't mind if I indulge myself like I did in my last post. Feel free to take what you want ;)

Beginnings of a True Kingdom

The Panta had established themselves along the Mississippi delta, and as the isolated villages grew in size so did the potential of their citizens to ascend from mere subsistence farming. A thriving barter economy developed between towns, and more advanced features like roads and wheeled carts began to appear for the first time in Northern America. The first boats built by a Xanto descendant, small barges loaded with crops, building materials, or perhaps a rare shipment of bronze weaponry plied up and down the Mississippi River. Politically, the Panta retained their clannish nature, with each chief controlling the land around their own settlements instead of a stretch of hunting ground on the open plain. A tenuous peace between rival factions was maintained by the ever-present danger of Xanto raiders. These invaders had not forgotten the ages-old struggle against their more civilized brethren, and frequently attacked and looted the outskirts of Panta settlements. They may have been much fewer in number, but the years of wilderness survival and more advanced weaponry made even a small band a force to be reckoned with.

Rise of the Xanto

The Xanto themselves had also made significant advancements from their old ways of life. The ever-present clan bickering and conflicts briefly resumed following Anar's death, but the Xanto knew that they could not afford to let their ancestral homeland be overrun by the regrouping Panta. Every year coinciding with the winter games at Anar's Stronghold, the clan-chiefs voted on a leader who would arbitrate disputes and lead them to battle should the need arise. This allowed for greater overall prosperity; so much so that a large town around the stronghold emerged around this time. It supplied equipment, newer iron weaponry delved from mines in the Rocky Mountains, and provisions for the clans as they struck out for months on end to hunt or raid the Panta. Although the settlement was massive, it was all but abandoned during most of the year, its inhabitants scattered to the winds on the great plains.


Nothing is currently known about the third "Lost" Xanto tribe that disappeared into the Rocky Mountains (but yes, they do still exist and will get more detail when I think of something to do with them!)



again, I'm not sure if this is an appropriate format for this sort of thing. Hopefully you'll enjoy reading it anyway and incorporate a bit into your next update :D
 
Can I take over the Murrettian chiefdoms, as they are an offshot of the Seshegi nomad culture? :mischief:
 
I don't want to annoy a good mod, but in the interests of being fair I will point out that while you aren't under much obligation to get it done fast, it would be good if you said you would get it done later if you would get it done later.

el lurko commente: So he updates every day and it's STILL not good enough for you? :lol: Have you ever modded before? I think it would give you a whole new appreciation.


Watching and reading with great interest, Daft.
 
Just what I wanted.... I can't wait until asian-faced warriors with bronze-strengthened composite bows supplied from more advanced towns reach Europe... It will be the replay of Geghis Khan!
 
Kajivati chiefdoms: Start to mimic more advanced cultures. Cities and forified towns will become more common. If civilizations too the west become weak in some way, strike them. Perhaps use war elephants to attack the bigger kingdoms.

Kramtob tribes: Move south towards the Middle East. Adopt some of the tactic such as using chariots and maybe even take some horses. Besides that just do what a "true" Kramtob culture would do (pillage, attack, slowly melt into another culture)


Syhin chiefdoms: Continue to reside in the Himalayas. Mainly raise livestock up in the mountains for food. Peace and knowledge are praised in Syhin culture, while war and anger are shunned. Send out missionaries to preach the goods of meditiation and knowledge. However, only reveal the location of the Syhin Chiefdoms to those whom are dedicated followers of the Syhin faith.
 
Mavan Sea-Peoples

Priorities:
The Sea-People of the Aegean Peninsula begin to settle building larger villages on the fertile valleys of the land. More foraging takes place but still having a large focus on the seas and bringing food from the sea.

The Mavan of Crete are much more fierce fighting one another over land holdings untill one group kills off the other.
 
Amestris will begin organizing the tribes and increase the military forces at its disposal to more effectively do battle with the rival Sarvonians.

Priorities: Organization, Military Buildup
 
Hai Ren
Priorities: Paper, Rice Terrancing, Net fishing are tech. Buracracy. First Hsin Civilization.

Shan Ren
Priorities: Paper, Rice Terrancing, Jade Mining are Tech, Unification is ttempted. Many try to use the empire to aid their goals. Semi-civilized. With 3 or 4 major stateletts all up and down the coast by the end.

Sai REn
Priorities: Horseback riding!!! Normadism. Try to expand in all directions. Try to fight anyone if they are driven out from their homes.


Shan Ren has major YueRen influences. Hai Ren has less influence but more respect.
 
Zul:
The Zul have now initiated large-scale farming, and are now able to sustain cities. Many people wished to remain hunters and gatherers, but eventually they too took up farming. With this evolution to a sedentary people, a government has been more or less founded. On deciding who to rule, Thak Kil identified himself as a descendant of the great Sun god Thier. His family is now ruling from the capital of Mogawab at the very tip of the home Island, Hom.
 
Aww, my interest in this was the creation of civilization in America earlier than usual :(

n/m
 
The Pelonar are to focus on expanding into the Black Sea, establishing friendly relations and trade posts with all their neighbors.
 
Back
Top Bottom