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Alternative Component Names for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by adan_eslavo, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Carthaginian city lists:
    Spoiler Latinized spelling :
    Code:
    Qart-Hadasht
    Ziz
    Kapara
    Motya
    Hippo
    Lixis
    Atiq
    Cossyra
    Olissipona
    Cartennae
    Lol
    Tarras
    Hadrumetum
    Shalla
    Malaka
    Iboshim
    Oyat
    Leptis
    Iomnium
    Kissi
    Tsabratan
    Arambys
    Tingi
    Abdera
    Kition
    Sexi
    Maqom Hadash
    Tabarka
    Lilybaeum
    Cape Melqart
    Gadir
    Drepana
    Bulla
    Qart-Hadasht Nova
    Mahon
    Camarata
    Igilgili
    Macomades
    Rusazus
    Paxi
    Rhousikada
    Zarai
    Timici
    Rusguniae
    Callista
    Azama
    Rusadir

    Spoiler Punic spelling :
    Code:
    QRTHDšT
    SYS
    KPR'
    HMTW'
    'PWN
    LKš
    'TQ
    YRNM
    LSPN
    QRTTN
    LOL
    TRS
    DRMT
    š'LT
    MLK'
    'BšM
    WY'T
    LPQY
    'Y'MN
    Kš
    SBRTN
    RMB'S
    TNG
    'BDRT
    KTY
    SKS
    MQMHDšT
    TBRK'N
    LLB'N
    RšMLQRT
    'GDR
    DPN
    BB'L
    QRT Nova
    Mago
    KM'
    'YGLGLT
    MQM'
    RšZ
    PKS
    RšKD
    SR`'
    TMKY
    RšGNY
    KLST
    ZM
    Rš'DR
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Code:
    'YGLGLT
    This is the best :p. I would choose first list.
    What about punic ttanliteration with vocals? Latinized names seems to be not in place somehow.
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Igilgili. The Carthaginians often just transcribed Berber or Numidian place names into their script, and it results in some funny ones.
    It's your mod, so it's your call.
     
  4. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    I would be happy if you were contributor. I sent you invitation on github.
     
  5. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    I don't think letter "é" in "Cancuén" is shown in city banner.
    Is "The" needed in "The Quechua"? I would leave only Quechua. What is the difference from Tawantisuyu?
     
  6. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I didn't write up the mayan city names; shall I just change it to Cancuen?
    The original TXT_KEY_CIV_INCA_SHORT_DESC is "The Inca", but the actual term used by Quechua speakers for 'people' is 'Nunakuna', So I will change it to that.
    Tawantinsuyu literally means "The Four Directions", as in the 4 cardinal directions which the empire spans. It's as close to a word for "The Incan Empire" as there is.
     
  7. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Prince

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    Shouldn't a city name be associated to one base civ only (ignoring Attila shenanigans)? The presence of Amsterdam/Rome/Barcelone/... in this list could make things confusing.

    Or does the game auto-skip a name if already present? Even so, there would still be issues with Barcelone vs Barcelona.
     
    pineappledan likes this.
  8. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    It's a valid concern, and one I had previously (hence my long post on the subject just above the one you quoted), but I was told to focus more on the "leader-side" of things, and, aside from some negligible cases (like Napoléon-sur-Yon, which, after research, should be named Napoléon-Vendée, for it was its actual name during the First Empire), no new city has been created, all new cities were conquered.

    It is basically a matter of how we see the focus of the mod : should we focus on the culture (ex. : the Persian/Iranian debate can affect which cities can be used, since the Persians different from the Medes, which they conquered), on empires (in the case of Persia, can we add Gaza, a very important city-fortress at the time ?) or on leaders ?

    A good example of how such an approach could affect a city list is how the Greek city list could evolve depending on its leader : when using the Macedon mod, Pericles leads Greece, and has the "Delian League" UA. Should Sparta, which became the most important adversary of the Delian League in the end, be included in Pericles city list ?

    All in all, its not a simple situation, for, even though @adan_eslavo seems to have taken a more "leader-focused" approach, it can, as you said, create strange situations where the same city can be founded several times with only minor name differences.

    I realize that my answer is already quite long for something that isn't that important in the end, but giving a simple answer isn't easy on that matter...
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    This ignores, of course, that the exact same city by different names already exists in civ 5. Constantinople/Istanbul being the obvious example, but the worst offender is Carthage. Basically every city in the Carthaginian city-list is used by some other civ. Carthage founded the modern cities of Carthago Nova/Cartagena, Olissipona/Lisbon, Rabat, Tinga/Tangier, Carthage/Tunis, Oea/Tripoli, Ziz/Palermo, Neapolis, Mahon, Gades/Cadiz, Hadrumetum/Sousse, so they're pretty inescapable.
     
    adan_eslavo and Hinin like this.
  10. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Not to mention that if someone adds another russian/japan/other leader then how to differentiate lists between them? Of course by adding leader specific names.

    @Hinin you are right about Gaza. Thats how Ive created Assyrian list. Can you help us modifying some lists if you have some knowledge? Can you post some suggestions/corrections about france?

    As I said earlier, look at Rome. They founded many cities around the world. But the real cultural center was Rome and italian peninsula. So do you want to cut rome by 90% of their territory? Imo no.
     
  11. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Hi folks! I post my latest version I did many days ago, but didn't publish. Sorry I couldn't finishe it, but such project is too much for one person especially if someone like me looses track of what is happening in civ5 community. I hope it will be continued by someone. I think it works. As far as I remember I've added some new nations to the list and only few are missing (7?). Good luck and have fun!
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Upcoming updated Moroccan city list according to what I found about Saadi dynasty and european cities at those times:
    Code:
    Merraksh
    Fas
    Sala
    Taza
    Sijilmassa
    Tarudant
    Debdou
    Taghazut
    Tawdenni
    Tuwat
    Tetouan
    Ar-Ribat
    Meknas
    Shafshawan
    Asfi
    Wejda
    Agadir
    Warzazat
    Beni Mellal
    Kharaybakat‎
    El Kelaa des Srarhna
    Qnīṭra
    Fédala
    Al-Uyun
    Al-Breyja
    Al-Ksar al-Kebir
    Fquih ben Salah
    Al-Naazur
    Settat
    Barashid‎
    Al-Khamisat
    Guelmim
    Ad-Daakhilat‎
    Ben Grir
    Arfud
    Timbuktu
    Gao
    Jenne
    Kukiya
    Walata
    Tindirma
    Agadez
     
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  13. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    And Celtic (Welsh) names from mod:
    Code:
    Ynys Wydryn
    Duntagell
    Eborakon
    Isca
    Caerleon
    Dinas Maelor
    Cwmbran
    Caernarfon
    Pentrellawr
    Ynys Mon
    Porthleven
    Caer Sws
    Powys
    Brenin Tre
    Caerphilly
    Dumnonia
    Llandudno
    Aberystwyth
    Penzance
    Durobriwa
    Dalriata
    Lugdunum
    Caer Gwynedd
    Dineiddyn
    Caer Ludd
    Treorchy
    Luxulyan
    Bretwynn
    Caerwent
    Penryn
    Dwrent
    Ynys Wair
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll
    Ynys Trebes
    Balwynn
    Caerdydd
     
  14. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Arabic city list based on Abbasids c.800:
    Code:
     Madinat al-Salaam
    Ar-Raqqah
    Makkah al-Mukarramah
    Madīnat an-Nabī
    Samarra
    Al-Mawṣil
    Diyar Bakr
    Al-Fusţāţ
    Tabriz
    Zaranj
    Nishabur
    Merv
    Bukhara
    Lashkargah
    Al-Aḥsā
    Basra
    Sa'dah
    Sanaa
    Zabid
    Janad
    Al-Quds
    Dimashqu
    Homs
    Hamah
    Tarsus
    Dabil
    Tiflis
    Gazzah
    Al-Iskandariyya
    Aswan
    Al-Ahwaz
    Hamadan
    Isfahan
    Rayy
    Shiraz
    Sari
    Kirman
    Herat
    Qandahar
    Ghazni
    Kabul
    Balkh
    Samarqand
    Isfijab
    Talas
    Multan
    Manisura
    Suhar
    Benghazi
    Ṭarābulus
    Tunis
    Āl-Qayrawān
    Adin
    Ar-Riyadh
    Edessa
    Ardabil
    Tabriz
    Arḍ ar-Rūm
    Shushan
    Maḍīq Hurmuz
    Masqaṭ
    Urganch
    Bukhara
    Spoiler Maps :
     
  15. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    And last: Babylon
    Code:
    Babilim
    Barsip
    Nibbur
    Upi
    Uruk
    Uru
    Kishshatu
    Larsam
    Dilbat
    Kutha
    Der
    Hit
    Tikrit
    Harran
    Iritu
    Ninua
    Ashshur
    Arrapha
    Nasibina
    Mari
    Karkamisha
    Tarsus
    Hamath
    Tadmor
    Damashq
    Gubla
    Sidon
    Sur
    Yerushaláyim
    Tema
    Arvad
    Anah
    Jesus, Firaxis really screw the thing. They forgot that Mesopotamia was ruled over thousand of years and Old-Babilonia is not the same as Neo-Babilonia and they were divided by over 1500 years! Almost all cities Firaxis added were Old Babilonian and didn't survive to ruling of Nebhadnezzar II. Echh.

    At least I managed to do those lists. This region was tough (Bizantine, Macedon with Greek language; Neo-Assyria and Neo-Babylon with Akkadian; Arabia with Arabic; Ottomans with Turkish; Persia with Persian and Roman Empire with Latin) - all rulers were conquering same regions over thousands of years. I never thought it will be such difficult to do this mod... But I managed do make them as close to native languages as possible, and all cities from their territories were included. Were those cities important? Were some cities missed by me or anyone alse?

    After looooong time v0.21 is officially released!

    All nations have their lists and now I ask you, your friends, anyone who know mentioned regions, nations, languages to verify my (and other guys) work. Some civs have low number of city names. The base is done. Pass the info. Notify civfanatics users. Spread the knowledge.

    Now next part is city-states I start to rework.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
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  16. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    I have never heard of anyone ever refer to China as 'Zhonggua' when speaking in English, and I'm Chinese myself.

    'China' makes sense to me, or you can use Wu Zetian's dynasty name 'Zhou', or 'Southern Zhou' to differentiate from the earlier Zhou dynasty.
     
  17. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    I was using native translation instead of english ones. "Zhongguo" means "China" in chinese transliteration, right? Like Polska instead of Poland etc. Of course I made each part of the mod optional, so anyone can adjust it to its need if it fell awkward. I personally play with all stuff enabled and it gives me some kind of "feeling".

    But you may be right about using dynasty name :)
     
  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The goal was specifically to use endonyms if one is known (obviously for dead languages and such, we can't do much). China being comfortable with their English appellation is fine, but there are other cultures where the xenonyms are rooted in either ignorance (Inca), sweeping generalizations (Persia, Aztec), or outright bigotry (Iroquois). The prevailing theory for the name "China" is that it comes from the Qin. At the very least, if AE is changing everyone else, there could be a more accurate name for the empire represented by a Tang/Zhou empress.

    IMO, I wouldn't name the civ meant to represent the length and breadth of China after a dynasty that lasted only 15 years... The compromise would be to call China "The Middle Kingdom", perhaps
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  19. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    I can add xenonyms which are much closer to those times. F.e. instead of Austria --> Habsburg Monarchy (xenonym), Habsburgermonarchie (endonym). For now we have only Endonyms.
     
  20. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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