America will Conquer the World

[joukov]

Originally posted by PinkyGen


The US won't exist forever. Empires rise and fall, and we will be no different. It is more of a question of how long we have, and when are best days will be.

i agree with pinkygen the US empire will one day fall and become humm...obsolete... Just like the roman empire that has lasted for 1000 years.... It will probably be in 200 or 300 hundred years.... but who knows things go faster in these modern times.... remember the fall of the U.S.S.R nobody ecpecting it... So it could be faster than we think.....

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

There will not in the forseeable future of human development, be a stable democratic communism. Communism is by its nature a coercive system. It political and personal freedoms remain the people will use them to evade the economic coercion. The state must then in a very short number of year eliminate the polictical and oersonal freedoms, evolving into a totalitatian state, or let communism fall. there has never been communism with out coercion and then destrustion of political freedonm. This is not just long coicidence, it is in the very nature of communsim. The USSR, China, etc are not aberations from commuism, they are the true of it and its certain political evolution.

 

[animepornstar]

wasn´t some south american countries democratic communistic before usa stopped them.

however, i think the united states (and eu) will lose their domination if the rules for the international trade will be more fair. i hope the wto meeting i qatar will give that.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by CornMaster


Question for you rmsharpe.

Now.....I've noticed your voice is against several mergers of countries, regions, etc.... Is this because you don't want it to happen? Or you want it to happen but realistically, you know you will never see it happening?

Just curious...

Both.

I don't want it to happen because, I personally believe it would cause an economic collapse in Europe, and severe insurgency problems throught Western parts of Europe, specifically, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and the Czech Republic. I don't know about more "stable" countries like the U.K., but I don't think it'd be healthy.

Secondly, I don't see it happening, ever. Just because "coalition" comes before "conquer" in the dictionary, doesn't mean that is how it's going to happen. Except that the victories are going to be diplomatic and economic, rather than militarily.

EDIT

Also, I believe that communism will fail, whether it is a despotism or democracy, the concept of wealth distribution will *forever* cease incentive for people to work hard, only to have those freedoms (yes, communism does restrict financial freedom) taken away and given for nationalistic purposes.

Had the United States been a communist (or socialist) government, I assure you, I would committ myself to many "corrupt" activities to advance myself further in society and financially. Why? Because, it is human nature for one to want to advance themselves further than their peers.

 

[kobayashi]

wow. I go off to bed and when I wake up, over twenty replies.

Originally posted by CornMaster

While religious fundementalism is a backward step, Communism is a huge leap forward. It aims to erase social classes, race, sex, age barriers, and equality for all. While taking care of ALL the people.

How you see this as a step backward....I'll never know. Unless your talking Soviet, Chinese, and other dictator run communism-ish. In which case, it's not really the communism at fault, but the absolute power of the leader. And the obvouisly corruptness of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a democratically run Communism is the only thing that will save mankind from itself.

Communism is a load of baloney because none of its basic premises are true:

1. people are selfless
The truth is, people are not selfless, they are selfish. Everyone wants whatevers best for themselves and their family and to own assets and you can't in communism.

2. the state can allocate resources efficiently
The only efficient way to allocate resources is through the free market. The state can't know what you want to study, where you want to work as. Would you like to be forced to work as a farmer?

3. everyone is equal
People should be given equal opportunity but they are not equal. If you force them to be, they will stop trying to improve.

There is no such thing as democratic communism and can never be. Can't you see that its an oxymoron. Democracy is more than voting - it is also about freedom to do what you want as long as it does not harm others.

Your say that its not communism at fault, just the absolute power of the leaders. Can't you see communism leads to absolute power and thus corruption? If the decision making process is decentralised, it reverts to a free market.

Maybe what you have in mind is democratic socialism - basically a democracy with very high taxes and lots of welfare, like Canada maybe?

 

[allan]

It is sometimes said that property is a cornerstone of personal freedom--"a man's house is his castle," so to speak. When people can work hard or work smart, and keep the fruits of their labor (and labor is worth what others value it to be worth, since labor is essentially doing things for others), then they are free.

I do not presently own land property (I rent), which since I'm single is fine with me, but when I start having kids I would like to own a house, and am preparing my finances so that I can do that. But having a piece of terra firma that I can call MINE (not the government's, not the landlord's, and eventually, not the bank's either) would give me a sense of security, freedom AND responsibility on a much greater level than I have now. Because I will be living in my own space, not space that really belongs to someone else, where I could be evicted at whim really.

As rmsharpe said too, there is much about competition--not necessarily competition with OTHERS so much as competition with yourself--that makes people work harder, smarter, and makes some of the greatest (and even some not-so-extraordinary) minds come up with things that improve everyone's standard of living. You see, most people work hardest when their efforts will directly benefit THEM--that is simply human nature, which not even the most intense brainwashing will ever change.

So given that communism by its very nature runs so profoundly countercurrent to human nature, it is inevitable that enforcing it will involve some intense coercion--hence we have never seen a democratic communism. And probably never will, so long as humans are of the nature that we are. Which isn't all that bad really--especially when you harness its full potential rather than try to change it forcefully.

 

[Whiskey Priest]

Ok first off. If you are going to talk about communism, READ ABOUT COMMUNISM. Marx never said that people ARE selfless, he said they SHOULD be. Marx never said that all people ARE equal, he said they SHOULD be. Now as for the allocation of resources this idea that the state is horrible at is only partially true. Mail services are run well, the state builds very good bridges and highways, it builds very good health systems (The prizatized American system is something like the 36th, the Socialized French system number 1, according to UN rankings). REnault the french car maker is run well. It makes good cars and it sells them at a competitive price. It even has money to produce some of the best engines on the F-1 racing circuit.

Anyway I digress.

The ABSOLUTE flaw of communism is that it deviates from the structure that it uses for support. Communism is a view of history that says that socialism is the next evolutionary step for mankind. Communists have this view because of a theory called Hegelism. I don't really want to get into it that much but Hegelism states that history is a CONTINOUS clash of forces that will produce a median, which will inturn be "clashed" with by progressive forces. The communists state that all of earths history (I forget how marx classified it, bu I think it was Slavery, Capitalism, Facism, socialism) leads to socialism...then ends. Marx states that socialism is the last force, but if you accept hegelism you have to eccept there will always be another force.

Wow I think this is my longest post ever.

 

[Shaolin]

Why does everyone think the U.S. wants to colonize them? I don't want Canada let alone Afghanistan or some other third world country, hell, I don't even want to be a part of Union with Europe. No offense to people from Canada and Europe.

 

[PinkyGen]

Boo to all who Communism cannot work. As the Great Joseph Stalin proclaimed, "There are no fortresses a Bolshevik cannot storm!"

Seriously, communism does not assume people are selfless. Communism actually calls for the elimination of the enemy class by the Proletariot. In the USSR, this was the 'dekulakization'. Where communism fails is two fold.

1. The system requires violence to uphold it. Even Tito's Yugoslavia required some repression.

2. Everything is planned by the government. This introduces ineffeciency and inflexibility, as they are not necessarily responding to consumer demand. With all power concentrated in so few people, there mistakes can bring down the whole system. For the economy to totally collapse here, not only the government but a huge number of private buisnesses must also make the wrong choice. With more factions, it is less likely that one can dominate. (Heh, I worked Madison into communism, pat on the back to me )

P.S. While I would not mind ruling the world, I don't think America wants to do so. "What, bring in more poor people?"

 

[allan]

"Marx never said that people ARE selfless, he said they SHOULD be. Marx never said that all people ARE equal, he said they SHOULD be."

And that right there is where it breaks down. Trying to dictate or change human nature would necessarily involve violence or coercion toward those who do not wish to change their nature. And in this case, that would involve most (if not all) people.

The best systems may not always be palateable to fantasy views of what man SHOULD be, but they realistically accomodate what man IS. They have to, to work.

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Shaolin
Why does everyone think the U.S. wants to colonize them? I don't want Canada let alone Afghanistan or some other third world country, hell, I don't even want to be a part of Union with Europe. No offense to people from Canada and Europe.

Colonization is not an intention. It is simply a side effect of globalisation. Other countries are simply being more and more 'US like' (starbucks?) while things from other cultures are becoming common in the US (like sushi?). As the distinction blurs more and more, the entire world will be indistinguishable from the US (biggest economy so it gets to keep the name US).

 

[allan]

I would personally be against any kind of "One World Government" though (and I assume kobayashi ISN'T talking about this when he speaks of globalization), even if the US were in charge or it were a US-style democracy.

Simply because throughout history, there was always the last resort for dissenters of a government to move to another country. As good as the US is, it is far from perfect--technology allows our government to spy on people in more sophisticated ways, for instance. And then there is the whole "War on Drugs" thing that is slowly eroding traditional constitutional rights.

There have been many Americans who have moved to places like Thailand or the Caribbean to live a "simpler", or at least as they feel, less intruded-upon life. Their reasons are just as valid as any dissenter for any country. And if there were no alternative nations and systems for dissenters to go to, that could be very dangerous as there are no more "escape valves" so to speak. Plus it would be unfair to dissenters, especially if a "World Government" became more oppressive over time (which we know governments can devolve like that).

So until it becomes easy for the common man to move to off-planet colonies, I say keep distinct nations intact, and let them attract the kind of people that thrive in whatever system. We don't have the "perfect system" that will please everyone yet, and we probably never will.

 

[Hamlet]

I think actually knowing what communism is actually about may help some people in this thread.

The USSR wasn't, and China isn't a communist country. In fact, a "communist country" is bordering on, if not actually is, a contradiction in terms.

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by Hamlet
I think actually knowing what communism is actually about may help some people in this thread.

The USSR wasn't, and China isn't a communist country. In fact, a "communist country" is bordering on, if not actually is, a contradiction in terms.

Could someone open a dictionary and check the 'communism' part?
We have some hard argues otherwise in instant future.

"Show me even one example of working communism"
- Cuba.

Now u answer "But it is not democratic and very, very poor."
- Well, how'd that be? Would it be because it has a certain neighbour who fears
that Cuba destroys the whole world with it cigars?

 

[sonorakitch]

"But it is not democratic and very, very poor."

So, Juizi, this is our fault? I agree they are poor because of us, even though they allowed nuclear weapons targeted at the United States on its soil. But it is not our fault that Cuba is not democratic. In fact, if it was up to us, they probably would be.

~Chris

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by Juize
"Show me even one example of working communism"
- Cuba.

Sorry to tell you, but it doesn't work in Cuba.
Cuba is a dictatorship, not a Comunist country.

Now u answer "But it is not democratic and very, very poor."
- Well, how'd that be? Would it be because it has a certain neighbour who fears
that Cuba destroys the whole world with it cigars?

Why would any neighbour want to help a country that tried to activly overthrow it's neighbour's (and non-neighbours) governments for almost 40 years?

or is Angola an area that is withen Cuba's sphere of influence?

 

[joespaniel]

Great post Allan.

When I find an undiscovered island with no national claim, Im moving!

Until then, I just plan to go to Arizona.

Intrusion by the government is one of America's downsides, although sometimes necessary.

I keep a low profile...

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Juize
- Cuba.

Socialist dictatorship.

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Whiskey Priest
The communists state that all of earths history (I forget how marx classified it, bu I think it was Slavery, Capitalism, Facism, socialism) leads to socialism...then ends. Marx states that socialism is the last force, but if you accept hegelism you have to eccept there will always be another force.

Don't you mean Primitive communism, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism?

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by PinkyGen
Where communism fails is two fold.

1. The system requires violence to uphold it. Even Tito's Yugoslavia required some repression.

It's Marxist-Leninism that espouses the use legitimate use of violence, nothing else.