Another Game-Over you lose card

[obsolete]

Along similar lines, there is another shot I want to disprove 2 common myths.

#1, that barbs can not pop from huts close to your capital
#2, that barbs can not pop INSIDE your cultural borders


I have read about a 7-tile rule, but I know this is false, because time and time again I have seen in deity games that barbs pop from huts much closer than this.

Here was a shot from a game, where you could not possibly put a hut any closer to a capital. Please note, I did NOT move my initial settler, the hut was located where my archer is now. It was exactly right beside my starting border.

Only due to good luck, did I avoid popping this hut during the beginning, because I had other things to go after on the other side of the capital.

Now that I have a chance to hit it, look what happens. We pop not only more than one barb next to the capital, but notice all barbs seem to pop out right INSIDE our culture. RIGHT NEXT to our capital (literally speaking). Now, imagine if this was some poor chap, who is trying to play optimally, and uses his starting warrior to pop that hut... He would have lost the capital on the next turn and it would have been literally impossible to prevent since there is no way you could build anything in time. Only the deities get a ton of defense units at the start and can live through this like it's just free EXP for them (which it is).

 

[Gliese 581]

obs: That is not necesarilly true as the outcome of huts is changed by your actions. Popping that hut at a different time will most likely net another result regardless of if it could pop at the start of the game (which I'm not sure about). This can be seen in public games where people explore the map by different routes and get totally different results from the same hut.

 

[PieceOfMind]

obsolete.

Great post. You got me thinking so I did a bit of code digging. Your example above looked bizzare.

Here is the famous 8-tile clause, in CvPlayer::canReceiveGoody.
If any of the following return false then a hut cannot pop a barb.

if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).getBarbarianUnitClass() != NO_UNITCLASS)
	{
		if (GC.getGameINLINE().isOption(GAMEOPTION_NO_BARBARIANS))
		{
			return false;
		}

		if (getNumCities() == 0)
		{
			return false;
		}

		[B]if (getNumCities() == 1)[/B]
		{
			pCity = GC.getMapINLINE().findCity(pPlot->getX_INLINE(), pPlot->getY_INLINE(), NO_PLAYER, getTeam());

			if (pCity != NULL)
			{
				if (plotDistance(pPlot->getX_INLINE(), pPlot->getY_INLINE(), pCity->getX_INLINE(), pCity->getY_INLINE()) <= (8 - getNumCities()))
				{
					return false;
				}
			}
		}
	}

If it's not already clear, the check for 8 tiles from a city only happens if you only have one city.

I'm not sure why they say "<= (8 - getNumCities())" because getNumCities() is always going to be 1 inside there isn't it? So this would mean plot distance only needs to be less than or equal to 7.

The reason your example is bizzare is now obvious. Very rarely would anyone have a hut just outside the border of their capital, leave it alone while settling a second city, AND not have an AI take it in the meantime.

I should add that the above 3 conditions are the only things that can prevent a barb from popping from a hut. This confirms that "barbs cannot pop inside borders" is a myth (though to be honest I've never heard this myth by anyone before obsolete mentioned it... hmmm) but it's fairly reasonable. Myth #1 just needs to have an added clause attached to it (while number of cities = 1) and it's fact - not myth.

 

[Negator_UK]

I just don't know... some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on so I don't feel guilty, but then you run into un-winnable situations like this.

Its not cheating to disable them, but if you play with them on, you get got by the Vedics once in a while - restart.

More subtly, what about when the Vedics screw an AI, giving you, or a neighbouring AI, an advantage - that would probably not be to most peoples tastes. We could do with some more data to see if this is a big problem, - is there a "see the whole world cheat" besides worldbuilder ??

I have followed barbs into AI empires before now, always an easy first strike, and my best event was the ""Best Defence" - I built a load of castles and got +3 dip with all AI's, I was going for emperor cultural win (and got it) but after that event it should really have beeen downgraded to Noble

 

[r_rolo1]

And how about the game deciding that things are too peaceful and make you declare war out of the blue?

This alone makes me wonder if I'll ever play again with events and no espionage

 

[obsolete]

Very rarely would anyone have a hut just outside the border of their capital, leave it alone while settling a second city, AND not have an AI take it in the meantime.

Well, I had not settled any second city yet at that time. I STILL only had ONE city.

 

[r_rolo1]

Sorry, obsolete , but your screenie says otherwise.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Well, I had not settled any second city yet at that time. I STILL only had ONE city.

I agree with rolo. I can see it. Regardless of whether you captured it or settled it, it still counts.

EDIT... UNLESS you popped that hut then settled that city on the same turn and in that order... I doubt that though.

 

[obsolete]

My bad, I just remembered now after looking that yes that other one had just been rushed over there on the hill.

 

[dirtyparrot]

I don't think I've seen this mentioned here before, if a city gets captured thanks to one of those barb events, nearby barb cities will send troops towards captured cities and don't seem to engage troops on the way there. So, not only might you be able to quickly capture a city, there might be a very easy barb city to grab as well.

 

[bestsss]

more code about the BAD goody huts
from canReceiveGoody

if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).isBad())
{
	if ((pUnit == NULL) || pUnit->isNoBadGoodies())
	{
		return false;
	}
}

That being said: culture borders will never pop a bad hut. The check is performed Before the ones listed above by PoM
I mean that's not exactly true:

I should add that the above 3 conditions are the only things that can prevent a barb from popping from a hut. This confirms that "barbs cannot pop inside borders" is a myth (though to be honest I've never heard this myth by anyone before obsolete mentioned it... hmmm) but it's fairly reasonable. Myth #1 just needs to have an added clause attached to it (while number of cities = 1) and it's fact - not myth.

 

[noto2]

I don't like this event...but not for the same reasons as Obsolete. I don't like it because it makes the game to easy. sometimes those vedics kill an AI civ. As for them killing me...whatever, I'm not that annoyed at having to restard 1 game in 50 due to bad luck.

 

[harry_flashman]

always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't like this event...but not for the same reasons as Obsolete. I don't like it because it makes the game to easy. sometimes those vedics kill an AI civ. As for them killing me...whatever, I'm not that annoyed at having to restard 1 game in 50 due to bad luck.

Yeah. You say that. But I've seen a player lose a LHC game because the VA killed someone else, and another AI got very very huge.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc

That would be a positive result of events. I think volcanos are random though aren't they? Or do they keep triggering on a particular mountain?

 

[PieceOfMind]

more code about the BAD goody huts
from canReceiveGoody

if (GC.getGoodyInfo(eGoody).isBad())
{
	if ((pUnit == NULL) || pUnit->isNoBadGoodies())
	{
		return false;
	}
}

That being said: culture borders will never pop a bad hut. The check is performed Before the ones listed above by PoM
I mean that's not exactly true:

Good point. I forgot about that possibility. However, I think most people already know culture borders don't pop bad huts.

 

[DMOC]

I'm learning a lot of stuff from this thread.

 

[Elkad]

I got this in a 18player pitboss game. Raging barbarians. On about turn 5 I jump on a hut with my warrior. 7 barbs pop out. My warrior is dead of course. 2 turns later 5 of them stroll into my capital. I barely have my first build completed, which is another warrior at least.

Not that it mattered. Game over in less than 15 turns.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

@Lemon Merchant
That's not a real life, far from. In RL one has girls to cope with, which is enough I believe.

Oh, heck, we're not so bad. You just have to know how to keep a girl distracted -- Hey! What's that? Oooh! A shiny thing! Neat! This will look just wonderful with my new... uh...

Sorry.

Like I was saying, a distracted girl is a happy girl. I'm so good at deflection, my GF doesn't even know that I'm in the room half of the time. I can play Civ with impunity!

 

[troytheface]

"always leave them on. i like the extra strategic layer they add. If Ive built what I was planning to be a cottaged city next to a volcano, I'll build farms instead. If I get an event which promotes archery units I'll build xbows instead of maces etc "

alot of weak players apparently

hunting , archery- not that hard.

i suppose it is hard for the narrow minded that skip things and use a certain path and build order ect in order to proclaim a manipulated victory.

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