AntiAmericanism

I think that living standart is also limited measuring. Look, who want live in Iceland? I would rather move south to Greece or Croatia than live in such cold clima.
Greatness of nations or countries cant be measured. I agree with warpus. Manchester United won Champions leage. Is because it greatest?
 
I think that living standart is also limited measuring. Look, who want live in Iceland? I would rather move south to Greece or Croatia than live in such cold clima.
Greatness of nations or countries cant be measured. I agree with warpus. Manchester United won Champions leage. Is because it greatest?

Better example would have been Greece winning the Euro...
 
When citizens of a third world country protest about an American corporation treating their people/land bad that is okay in my opinion. That makes sense and I don't think it counts as anti-americanism.

When protesters go to a refugee camp and get crazy throwing tear gas just because there are American soldiers there, that is an example of Anti-Americanism. This happened to my father, a Marine. I think it was in South Korea.
 
Doesnt matter. In same year they didnt win FA cup and league cup. They also lost with many teams. We should also look on another criteria, as number of fans, money, trophies, fairness or beauty of game, etc. (I know that Manchester is top in many statistics)
 
Why would anyone take pride in the greatness of their country. After all, in a sporting event or past war, they didn't do anything to help their country, they just had the accident of being born in that country.

I think it's OK to take pride in your countries achievements as long as you don't do it to the extent that you're disregarding the equal if not greater achievements.

In the case of a sporting event - because it's fun to get together with your fellow countrymen and cheer on the team.
 
Why would anyone take pride in the greatness of their country...they didn't do anything to help their country, they just had the accident of being born in that country.

There is a vast disconnect between European attitudes towards nationalism and Americans' jingoistic ideas of "what it means to be an American." Europeans were far more nationalistic before the horrors of a couple of world wars devastated their continent. Somehow, having everything destroyed and whole generations massacred just took all the fun out of it.

Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game, and at the end America was the only country left with an intact infrastructure. That advantage was the basis of American primacy in the second half of the twentieth century.

Most Americans have no idea what conditions were like in Europe in the 1950s. Even England, on the winning side, suffered shortages and rationing long after the war ended.

The idea that the US is "the greatest, best country in the history of the world" is based on a temporary advantage after WWII that has long since evaporated. Meanwhile, neocon simpletons think that there is a magic wand that will restore the conditions of the 1950s, if only free-market capitalism were not hemmed in by evil government regulation.

Keep dreaming, simpletons. America is not special, or intrinsically better. In any measurable way, the US is mediocre at best, and far worse than most of the rest of the industrialized world. Why? Because neocon ideology keeps the US in the modern equivalent of the dark ages.
 
Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game
Country......... Pop 1939...... Military deaths Civ deaths Jewish Holocaust deaths Total deaths Deaths as % of 1939 pop
United Kingdom..47,760,000 382,600 67,800 450,400 0.94%
United States..131,028,000 416,800 1,700 418,500 0.32%
France.............41,700,000 217,600 267,000 83,000 567,600 1.35%
Soviet Union....168,500,000 10,700,000 11,400,000 1,000,000 23,100,000 13.71%
Spain...............25,637,000 4,500 4,500 0.02%
Sweden.............6,341,000 200 2,000 2,200 0.03%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Casualties_by_country

See? I don't debate.
 
Italy 44,394,000 301,400 145,100 8,000 454,500 1.02%

Hardly to cry about, compares to the US, UK and France. That leaves Germany.

Nazi Germany 69,623,000 5,533,000 1,600,000 160,000 7,293,000 10.47%

Everyone knows Germany is anti-nationalism. Is Russia?

Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game

That's how you explain our nationalism. Perhaps you could explain Russia's.

You were talking about Europe, right? But if you want to include Japan and China too, go for it.

Did you want my list complete, the whole page? Italy is no different than others. Perhaps we should look at Poland. How is their nationalism? Anyway, how was my table incoherant, or any less so than including Asia in making your point about Euro vs. US nationalism.

Very gum-smearlike. *sigh*
 

Yeah the lack of Germany in there makes that list pretty laughable. Also you have to take into account the fact that the US wasn't bombed like the UK or Germany - I'd say thats the main factor in turning popular opinion away from warmongering. You can't say that France, UK and Italy at ~1% of the total population compared to the US's .3% is a negligable difference. It's three times the US figure - that's pretty significant. Besides the key figure is civilian deaths - 1700 - how can you say thats comparable to european's experience?

Also I may be reading that list wrong as it's pretty incoherent but how the hell did ~400,000 Americans die in the holocaust? EDIT - yep I read it wrong...

Russia/Soviet Union was a totalitarian state so it's always going to foster nationalism as a means of controlling the populace. Well thats my take anyway.
 
Anyway, how was my table incoherant,

Sorry, dude, you're still incoherent, as in not making any sense. Try saying what you mean. It works.

Seriously, what ARE you on about?

Look at that table again. Total deaths, worldwide, are ten times US deaths. I call that relatively unscathed.

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that US nationalism, which is absurd by European standards, is rooted in the fact that after WWII the US was the only major power left with its infrastructure intact. The US dominated the late 20th century because it was the only country in a position to do so.

Americans have assumed that domination was due to some inherent superiority, rather than an accident of history.

Again: there is nothing special or superior about the US. The people are poorly educated and their infrastructure is no longer as good as the rest of the industrialized world. The slide into second-class status is inevitable, and has clearly already begun. The rampant jingoism is a symptom of ignorance.

God Bless America!
 
What are you saying, am I only one who is not blind?
Nazi Germany[18][19][20][21] 69,623,000 5,533,000 1,600,000 160,000 7,293,000 10.47%
 
Apart from the number of deaths, the main issue is that Europe was one big economical mess for over a decade, following WWII. In the 50s, America was wide recognised as paradise.

But that's indeed over now. Outside the USA, nobody regards the USA as the Land of the Free or the Land of unlimited possibilities. Like it or not, but the USA's image has mostly evaporated in Western Europe. Re-electing Bush in 2004 didn't help much :) .
 
If you want to come out of WWII a powerhouse, the key is not to get bombed.

Sweden was in the G6 as late as 1948.
 
uh...Spain in that list? They didn't particapate in WWII, neither did Sweden. Excellent hackjob, you nut.
Never ever baw about intellectual dishonesty.
here ecofarm, did any of your precious cities looked like this after WWI or II?





http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7308008&postcount=148
this post wins btw. I already "debated" with the most of you jingoistic lot why the USA haven't achieved true "greatness" yet.

Oh and i'm such an anti-american in so many eyes.

I'm not anti-american, i'm anti-******ism. I have bashed my politicians a lot too.
 
uh...Spain in that list? They didn't particapate in WWII, neither did Sweden. Excellent hackjob, you nut.
Never ever baw about intellectual dishonesty..
When you dont know nothing about Spanish or Swedish participation, look at references.
 
uh...Spain in that list? They didn't particapate in WWII, neither did Sweden. Excellent hackjob, you nut.

The subject:

Nationalism, US vs Europe

Basis: Light Casualities = more nationalism

Evidence:

US suffered equal to UK, France, Italy and more than most.

His Rebuttal:

What about Germany (not nationalist today), Japan and China (not european).

Conclusion:

I lack logic.

As we can see from the table and website above, the US indeed:

skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game

As per Dubai.

You're right. I'm nuts. His light casualities/cake ride = nationalism proposal is totally legit.

There is a vast disconnect between European attitudes towards nationalism and Americans' jingoistic ideas of "what it means to be an American." Europeans were far more nationalistic before the horrors of a couple of world wars devastated their continent. Somehow, having everything destroyed and whole generations massacred just took all the fun out of it.

Meanwhile, America skated through the wars virtually unscathed. Comparatively speaking, Americans made very little in the way of sacrifice, suffered very little in the way of privation, and incurred very few casualties. For them it was a big exciting game

And I say to him: compared to who? UK, France, etc, etc
And he says, no: Germany, Japan and China.

Well, I'm sorry that the axis had a horrible time, but it's probably for the better. Now how do we prove light casualities and having a good time = nationalism?

On to his other "points", if we must.

Most Americans have no idea what conditions were like in Europe in the 1950s. Even England, on the winning side, suffered shortages and rationing long after the war ended.

The idea that the US is "the greatest, best country in the history of the world" is based on a temporary advantage after WWII that has long since evaporated.
Marshall Plan?
Meanwhile, neocon simpletons think that there is a magic wand that will restore the conditions of the 1950s, if only free-market capitalism were not hemmed in by evil government regulation.
That's vomit. Neocons want world freedom, not 1950s.
Keep dreaming, simpletons.
America is not special, or intrinsically better. In any measurable way, the US is mediocre at best, and far worse than most of the rest of the industrialized world. Why? Because neocon ideology keeps the US in the modern equivalent of the dark ages.
As opposed to the Dubai sexist fundie monarchy.

You can act stupid if you want phil, but that's gum-smear. Islam keeps people in the dark ages, not the US government.
 
I see more AntiAmericanism from right wing loons from the US than any other group.
 
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