April 2021 Developer Livestream Discussion

[AntSou]

Russia nerf.

Spoiler :

I like the changes overall but I need to take a better look at them in writing along with the rest of the patch notes and consider the implications of each.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well, Scythia actually sounds interesting to me for the first time in EVER.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Russia nerf.

I'm gonna try and get a quick game as Russia before it gets hit with the nerf stick tomorrow.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Making a Winged Hussar an Industrial Era unit would be awkward, to be honest.

Well, it is a Cuirassier replacement so it might come in the Renaissance mimicking the Ottoman's getting the Barbary Corsair early but there is no way it's a Medieval era unit because then it would be Knight replacement.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well, it is a Cuirassier replacement so it might come in the Renaissance mimicking the Ottoman's getting the Barbary Corsair early but there is no way it's a Medieval era unit because then it would be Knight replacement.

An early Cuirassier replacement in the Renaissance does make the most sense. They appeared around 1570 which is too early for an Industrial Era unit.

 

[Linklite]

I'm gonna try and get a quick game as Russia before it gets hit with the nerf stick tomorrow.

Are patches retroactive? As in, if you start a game now with Russia, will they retain their old abilities throughout the game, even if you get the patch?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well, it is a Cuirassier replacement so it might come in the Renaissance mimicking the Ottoman's getting the Barbary Corsair early but there is no way it's a Medieval era unit because then it would be Knight replacement.

And if they keep it at Mercenaries, it will be ultra powerful.

 

[The Highwayman]

Are patches retroactive? As in, if you start a game now with Russia, will they retain their old abilities throughout the game, even if you get the patch?

Games in progress will be affected by the patch they said, and based on past history.

 

[InsidiousMage]

An early Cuirassier replacement in the Renaissance does make the most sense. They appeared around 1570 which is too early for an Industrial Era unit.

I still leaning towards it staying at Ballistics because it works well with Poland's playstyle and there isn't anywhere in the Renaissance tech or civic tree that it fits in well with, especially in Vanilla.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

This video has left me deflated, confirming the worst case scenario that the earlier video highlighted the lion's share of substantial changes to Civ design (enumerating a change to spawn bias, as they did for Australia, as a balance change is a cop out).
However I kind of expected that. What has left me more disappointed is the lack of any coherent thought underneath the changes they made, which makes me reconsider my initial enthusiasm for the April update video.
They justified their Poland change by stating that Poland has no innate bonus to getting a religion. That totally ignores that Poland can slot Revelation early and can reliably secure a religion.They overlooked the fact that the relics bonuses are an odd fit for Poland's playstyle and that the Sukienne is pretty much outclassed by all other trade abilities and it requires you to invest production into a building.
I'm annoyed by the change they made to Kongo because directly before introducing it they discussed how faith economy has become more central to the game the more additions have been made through expansions. When comparing Kongo to Khmer - who I think were on the same tier prior to this patch - the addition of +1 faith per relic is measly. Its especially disappointing as Kongo were the first asymmetrically designed Civ and they feel outright neglected in comparison to all those who have followed them (full disclosure, Kongo stan).
I'd really hoped this balance patch might have compressed the tiers which Civs currently occupy on power rankings. Prior to their buffs I think Maya represented an optimal of Civ design. Very powerful if executed well but also capable of faring adequately if map generation didnt align. I think the game probably benefits from having challenging Civs which will invariably occupy the lower tiers when compared to overpowered and easy to play Civs.
But there doesn't seem to have been a great deal of holistic thought at play in this patch.
Last observation - in response to a question from the chat Carl from Firaxis went out of his way to emphasise that balancing is undertaken with a view to both single player and multiplayer play. This struck me as deluded or disingenuous as it should be really apparent from how the community has played the game in the last 4 years that the Civs in this game have never been well balanced for multiplayer

 

[Jeppetto]

Khmer farms gain +1 Faith from foreign adjacent Holy Sites as well.

Always been the case with how map works. For example, enemy Farms contribute towards Feudalism adjacency.

 

[Kwami]

Always been the case with how map works. For example, enemy Farms contribute towards Feudalism adjacency.

Well, sort of. They specifically stopped that from working for certain things, like building Colosseum next to another city's Arena.

 

[Steamboat Willem]

Well, sort of. They specifically stopped that from working for certain things, like building Colosseum next to another city's Arena.

But you can build the Temple of Artemis next to someone else's camp, even though Civilopedia says otherwise.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

And if they keep it at Mercenaries, it will be ultra powerful.

I saw even more ultra-powerful things in this game. Like +1 movement to all units, or buffing Korea so I don't think this would be a deal-breaker They can move Winged Hussar on a tech tree to Metal Casting for example.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm really tempted to trawl this thread for all the changes, but I think I'll just wait until I have the full notes tomorrow. I hope they come out before I have to leave for work so I can read them...

 

[PonuryGrzybiarz]

Okey, but please.. special unit instead of starting warrior for Cree.. That's what we need the most.

 

[Jeppetto]

Well, sort of. They specifically stopped that from working for certain things, like building Colosseum next to another city's Arena.

I wasn't aware that worked before. I thought it worked in such way that the required building doesn't have to be in the district it's adjacent to, but must be in the city that is building the wonder.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

However I kind of expected that. What has left me more disappointed is the lack of any coherent thought underneath the changes they made, which makes me reconsider my initial enthusiasm for the April update video.
They justified their Poland change by stating that Poland has no innate bonus to getting a religion. That totally ignores that Poland can slot Revelation early and can reliably secure a religion.They overlooked the fact that the relics bonuses are an odd fit for Poland's playstyle and that the Sukienne is pretty much outclassed by all other trade abilities and it requires you to invest production into a building.

The relic bonus is probably just a nod to Jadwiga being made a saint by the Catholic Church, not to mention she has relics displayed today in Poland that were attached to her.

I'm annoyed by the change they made to Kongo because directly before introducing it they discussed how faith economy has become more central to the game the more additions have been made through expansions. When comparing Kongo to Khmer - who I think were on the same tier prior to this patch - the addition of +1 faith per relic is measly. Its especially disappointing as Kongo were the first asymmetrically designed Civ and they feel outright neglected in comparison to all those who have followed them (full disclosure, Kongo stan).

They get +1 faith for artifacts and sculptures as well, not just relics which is helpful.

 

[Kwami]

I wasn't aware that worked before. I thought it worked in such way that the required building doesn't have to be in the district it's adjacent to, but must be in the city that is building the wonder.

Oh, it definitely worked before. They made this change... some time in the last year? But they didn't do it consistently, because reasons. So, it was worth pointing out the Khmer farm thing this time.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

I'm really tempted to trawl this thread for all the changes, but I think I'll just wait until I have the full notes tomorrow. I hope they come out before I have to leave for work so I can read them...

here you go, two such lists. take your pick
https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/commen...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
https://pastebin.com/aFdXYmDN