Are right-wingers seen as scum?

[Berzerker]

answer my question please, if you will. what else do you need apart from photo ID?

generally means a birth certificate first, problematic for plenty of old folk

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"I don't want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down."
—

Conservative leader Paul Weyrich


This tells you a lot about rightwingers acting as scum.

Why resurrect this anus of a thread?

 

[LucyDuke]

Well you said that some people want to restrict those likely to vote against republicans. Kinda stinks of conspiracy theory to me..

Lower turnout favors Republicans, and it's pretty much just Republicans pushing for extra hoops. It's plausible.

Most forms of photo IDs are being rejected. People are being purged from registration roles for no reason other than their demographic groups. Local governments are making it extremely difficult of to get IDs that voting officials will accept.

Back it up bro.

They want voter fraud... they can then use attempts to limit it as a time to accuse the other side of being evil... politics at its most base.

That is completely stupid.

 

[kochman]

That is completely stupid.

You would say that from your island, but having seen repeatedly massive drives (such as ACORN) to get people registered to vote without really caring if they are eligible, but rather, who they want to win, makes it pretty clear over here... that is to say, the party that generally partakes in purposely illegal voting is the Dems.

The flip side of this, to be fair, is the Repubs, in an overreaction to this, go out of their way to disenfranchise anyone who is even close to questionable.

In the end, it's a tit for tat, with each side feeling they have to outdo the other side, here in the US.
It's not at all completely stupid, but thanks for speaking out of (rude) ignorance on the subject as though you're an expert of voting problems across the pond.

Now, you had it right on Cutlass... Local governments aren't making it impossible to get IDs, they are making it so you have to prove you are eligible for one. Cutlass freaking out about this is a pure example of what I was talking about... believe me, he wants illegals, ex-cons, etc to vote because they heavily favor the Dems, who he is completely in bed with on all issues whatsoever. It's not the Dem party that says, let's cheat... it's zealots within the party that take it upon themselves to cheat... win by any means necessary... for their cause.

They come up with ridiculous statements like demographics are the only reason people are getting purged, because it supports a whole demagogic agenda that the zealots have... scare you into thinking you may be next (especially if you are a minority). It's very base, but very true to what happens in the US with activists like that.

Another case of it just posted:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/...camp-asks-va-to-probe-voter-forms-ar-2081517/

 

[kochman]

Why resurrect this anus of a thread?

Good question.

 

[Arakhor]

Cutlass freaking out about this is a pure example of what I was talking about... believe me, he wants illegals, ex-cons, etc to vote because they heavily favor the Dems, who he is completely in bed with on all issues whatsoever. It's not the Dem party that says, let's cheat... it's zealots within the party that take it upon themselves to cheat... win by any means necessary... for their cause.

You hate people ascribing stuff to you that doesn't represent your views, so why are you now ascribing potentially illegal actions to Cutlass?

 

[kochman]

You hate people ascribing stuff to you that doesn't represent your views, so why are you now ascribing potentially illegal actions to Cutlass?

He wants no modifying of the current practice... no "regulation" if you will... despite there being massive evidence of problems, fraud, etc. This is Mr. Regulate we are talking about...

I'm not inaccurately ascribing... and he won't deny it. He thinks the possible threat is worth more than losing dem votes... It's lose lose in his eyes.

 

[Cutlass]

"There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today."
—

Bill Clinton

answer my question please, if you will. what else do you need apart from photo ID?

The point is that it is made purposely difficult for some groups of people to get a photo ID that voting officials will accept.

Back it up bro.

Voter ID

Every voter should demonstrate that they are who they say they are before voting. That form of proof should not include restrictive documentation requirements like overly burdensome photo ID or redundant proof of citizenship requirements that serve to block millions of eligible American citizens from voting.

Improvements in voting technology and modernization of our voter registration system will both increase efficiency and close the door on mistakes and fraud. Where there are clear policy solutions that resolve concerns about both election integrity and free and fair access to the polls, American citizens should not be subject to costly restrictive documentation requirements that limit access to the polls.

Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. At the same time, voter ID policies are far more costly to implement than many assume.

Rest of story HERE

 

[Cutlass]

He wants no modifying of the current practice... no "regulation" if you will... despite there being massive evidence of problems, fraud, etc. This is Mr. Regulate we are talking about...

I'm not inaccurately ascribing... and he won't deny it. He thinks the possible threat is worth more than losing dem votes... It's lose lose in his eyes.

See, the thing is, you're just a wrong. There is no significant voter fraud in the US other than voter suppression. All the so called "voter fraud" is just lying liars making up lies.

 

[kochman]

Reality disagrees with you, but whatever... I know that you don't consider that when pushing your agenda.
I've posted several links that show you to be wrong...

 

[kochman]

I think that what some here mean to say is, voter fraud isn't significant, because it is in their favor

 

[JollyRoger]

I think that what some here mean to say is, voter fraud isn't significant, because it is in their favor

The only documented cases of voter fraud I have seen are that Republican politician that got busted for it and those people working for that fake pimp Irish kid.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Voter fraud is indeed almost non-existent, as it was again discovered in Rick Scott's latest attempt to try to purge mostly minority voters from the Florida voter eligibility lists:

GOP Steps Up Bogus War on Voter Fraud

A defiant Florida GOP governor Rick Scott essentially told the Justice Department where it could go when it demanded that Florida stop its loudly trumpeted campaign to purge tens of thousands it claims aren't eligible to vote. Despite Scott's bellicose rant against the Justice Department mandate, election officials in all Florida counties halted the purge effort, at least for now. GOP state officials almost certainly will try to figure out a way to end around the order to halt the voter purge. There is, of course, absolutely no proof there's any widespread voting fraud, and that the overwhelming majority of those that Florida vote officials said are suspect are black and Hispanic voters, and in many cases have taken painstaking steps to prove their citizenship.

Florida official's claim of massive potential vote fraud looked even more suspect when Miami-Dade County election officials sent out more than 1,500 warning letters and found a grand total of 13 people that said they were not citizens. Out of that gargantuan number they found that an even more stunning total of two persons that weren't citizens said they cast votes in the 1996 and 2000 and 2004 elections. The underwhelming instances of fraud uncovered in Florida was no aberration. Studies that examined alleged voter fraud in Ohio and Wisconsin in the 2002 and 2004 elections found only a handful of actual cases of voter fraud. More than nine million votes were cast in the two states in both elections.

But the GOP's bogus war on voter fraud is not about insuring clean and fair elections, nabbing vote fraud lawbreakers, or upholding constitutional precepts. It's about winning elections on the cheap. It can only do that by tipping the vote number balance toward having more likely GOP voters and fewer likely Democratic voters. It's hardly coincidence that the majority of those targeted for voter purges are black and Hispanic. And it's even less of coincidence that the bogus vote purge campaigns are zeroed in on the key battleground states of Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Colorado and New Mexico where election officials are also mounting similar purge campaigns.

The GOP re-learned a lesson from the 2000, 2004, and 2008 presidential elections. And that was that numbers do count in close elections. And in the must-win states that determine who wins or loses the race to the White House, the smallest reduction in the number of Democratic voters can have a huge impact in determining the outcome of a close race. The numbers equation worked for the GOP in 2000 and 2004, and worked against it in 2008, when Ohio, Colorado Wisconsin, and Florida switched party hands to the Democrats and did much to put President Obama in the White House. The GOP with a generous helping hand from the Supreme Court which upheld Indiana's stringent photo ID requirement then swung its voter fraud campaign into high gear.

This includes making sure there is an absence of polling places in minority neighborhoods, ballot and vote machine irregularities, using lists of foreclosed homes to challenge voter's residences, rigid time lines for filing voter applications, the lack of information, misinformation or deliberate disinformation about voter registration forms and materials, and eliminating weekend voting, or sharply narrowing down the hours when polling places are open. Estimates put the number at more than 20 million possibly eligible voters that could be affected if the rash of new requirements are fully enforced.

Obama also got a huge election shot in the arm from students and other youthful voters in 2008. To counter that, a number of states now prohibit the use of student IDs as voter eligible proof. In Wisconsin, students now must have a new student ID with a two year expiration date to be eligible. In Virginia, the Republican-controlled State Board of Elections proposed tightening rules that make it easier for election officials to disqualify absentee ballots for even the most trivial mistake such as a misspelling on a signature.

GOP officials have not totally scrapped the old tried and true methods of voter suppression. They include: district gerrymandering, tightening felon bans, skimping on the number of polling places and machines in mostly black and Latino neighborhoods, stationing police at the polls, and challenging citizenship papers where they can get away with it. There is even some GOP congressional talk about attempting to scrap 1965 Voting Rights Act entirely or reduce it to a toothless measure long before its 25-year renewal expiration date in 2032.

The GOP's bogus war on alleged voter fraud has been a stunning PR success in that it has convinced legions of Americans that massive numbers of mostly blacks and Hispanics with the connivance of Democrats are knowingly breaking the law to vote against the GOP -- when in reality it's just the opposite. The Democrats have screamed foul at these thinly disguised suppression ploys, and have mounted court and Justice Department challenges. Once again the 2012 presidential election hangs in the balance in the fight against the GOP scheme.

The Truth about Fraud: Case studies by State

Missouri, 2000

The 2000 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. Many of these fraud claims were later used to support the call for restrictive ID requirements. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only six substantiated cases of Missouri votes cast by ineligible voters, knowingly or unknowingly, except for those votes permitted by court order. The six cases were double votes by four voters -- two across state lines and two within Missouri -- amounting to an overall rate of 0.0003%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Missouri, 2001

The St. Louis primary election for mayor is generally considered the guarantor of success in the general election. In 2001, various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. Many of these fraud claims were later used to support the call for restrictive ID requirements. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded absolutely no substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted. Accordingly, none of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Missouri, 2004

The 2004 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. At the same time, Missouri citizens were debating a proposal to require restrictive identification of each voter at the polls, and the fraud claims were used to support the call for ID. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only two substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted -- two voters, each voting twice. This amounts to a rate of 0.0001%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Missouri, 2006

The 2006 election was hotly contested in Missouri, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. At the same time, Missouri citizens were debating a proposal to require restrictive identification of each voter at the polls, and the fraud claims were used to support the call for ID. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded absolutely no substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted. Accordingly, none of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

New Hampshire, 2004

Various individuals questioned the integrity of New Hampshire’s 2004 elections. The allegations led to inflated claims of widespread fraud, of the sort commonly used to support restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only two substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted, and two more under investigation – these voters cast ballots from improper addresses. Even if all four involved fraud, this amounts to a rate of 0.0006%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

New Jersey, 2004

Partisan actors attempted to probe the accuracy of New Jersey’s voter rolls by comparing them with death records and with the rolls of other states. The reports led to inflated claims of widespread fraud, of the sort commonly used to support restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only eight substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted -- eight voters who voted twice. Given the number of votes cast in these elections, this amounts to a rate of 0.0004%. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

New York, 2004 and 2002

Two reporters attempted to probe the accuracy of New York’s voter rolls by comparing them with death records and with the rolls of other states. The reports led to inflated claims of widespread fraud, of the sort commonly used to support restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

In a review of at least four different elections, the allegations yielded only two substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted – two voters who voted twice. Given the number of votes cast in these elections, this amounts to a rate of 0.000009%. Neither of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

Wisconsin, 2004

The 2004 election was hotly contested in Wisconsin, and various irregularities led to inflated claims of widespread fraud. At the same time, Wisconsin citizens were debating a proposal to require restrictive identification of each voter at the polls, and the fraud claims were used to support the call for ID. We examined each of the allegations of fraud by individual voters -- the only sort that ID could possibly address -- to uncover the truth behind the assertions.

The allegations yielded only 7 substantiated cases of individuals knowingly casting invalid votes that counted -- all persons with felony convictions. This amounts to a rate of 0.0025% within Milwaukee and 0.0002% within the state as a whole. None of these problems could have been resolved by requiring photo ID at the polls.

There are links at this site that contain further information for each of these cases.

Slate: The GOP Sees Dead People—Voting

Why Republican plans to fight voter fraud are based on nightmares, tall tales, and paranoid fears.

When Americans go to the polls this November, they better have some ID. If they don’t, millions of them won’t be casting a ballot. Over the past two years, Republican legislators from Texas to Florida to Wisconsin and beyond have enacted new restrictions making it significantly more difficult for citizens to exercise their right to vote. These laws, which could disenfranchise more voters than at any time since the 1960s, exist because of one widely held conservative belief: that our elections are plagued with fraud.

National Republican chairman Reince Priebus echoed this view on MSNBC recently when discussing the new Wisconsin law that requires citizens to produce photo ID at the polls or be shown the door. He argued that the state’s election system was “absolutely riddled with voter fraud.” Priebus may be correct, but only if his standard for “riddled” is 0.0002 percent. A nonpartisan study on voter fraud in Wisconsin after the 2004 election found just seven ineligible votes—all of which were cast by ex-felons who were ineligible to vote despite being released from prison—out of 3 million ballots cast.

Yet the notion that voter fraud is rampant appears to have become a core belief among conservatives. Since the 2010 election, dozens of anti-voting measures have been enacted, from requiring photo identification to cutting early voting periods to mandating that citizens present a birth certificate or passport in order to register.

If you challenge conservatives with just how rare voter fraud is in the United States, you usually get one of three responses: It’s easy to do, it’s hard to catch, and they’ve heard of it happening. Let’s take these arguments one at a time.
First, conservatives often note that even if widespread fraud hasn’t occurred, the ease with which voters could misrepresent themselves at the polls warrants stringent preventive measures. Sting artist James O’Keefe has released a number of videos in which people show up at the polls with hidden cameras claiming to be someone they’re not. The fact that most poll workers trust these individuals and hand over a ballot proves, in O’Keefe’s estimation, that we need voter ID laws so people can’t misrepresent themselves.

This view ignores an important point: Regardless of how “easy” it may be to trick an unsuspecting poll worker, it rarely happens. And there is a simple explanation why: Voter fraud is a felony that carries a federal sentence of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine. If I show up at the polls and pretend to be Michael McDonald, at best, I gain a single vote for my preferred candidate; at worst, I get sent to prison until 2017. Stealing an entire election one vote a time (and risking significant penalties for doing it) defies common sense.

So does the logic that we must prevent any crime that’s “easy” to do. It’s really easy to dump a bucket of water on a policeman’s head. In reality, it doesn’t happen because people don’t want to go to jail. Yet by O’Keefe’s logic, the best way to prevent it would be to ban buckets.

Second, many conservatives contend that the reason studies show so little voter fraud is because it’s really hard to catch. It’s also hard to catch murderers, but that doesn’t mean we start locking up everyone in order to prevent people from killing one another. Americans have long subscribed to the notion of innocent until proven guilty; that, as Benjamin Franklin said, “it is better 100 guilty persons escape than that one innocent person suffer.” Without proof, or even credible evidence that widespread voter fraud exists, saying that it’s difficult to detect is not enough reason to justify stripping the right to vote from millions.

Finally, those who suspect rampant fraud sometimes admit they are just relying on their gut; it simply feels like it exists. Of course, we’ve all heard the stories of dead voters in Chicago or suitcases of absentee ballots in the Deep South. Conservatives capitalize on these familiar chestnuts to make the case for restrictive new measures, often parading these old stories as modern facts. For example, South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson went on Fox News earlier this year to declare that “we know for a fact there are deceased people whose identities are being used in elections in South Carolina.” Conservative outlets parroted the story endlessly, yet after a state investigation turned up zero evidence of fraud, they have gone silent.

In truth, concerns about voter fraud usually stem from other conservative fears. The right believes that undocumented immigrants are menacing our country; therefore, they must also be trying to vote illegally. The poor, who liberals want to assist with food and health care, are being driven from poll to poll to ensure Democrats stay in office. If you’re impoverished, the thinking goes, you must lack the moral fortitude that prevents the wealthier among us from voting more than once.

Some Republicans admit they have seen no evidence of fraud. Last year, Pennsylvania State Sen. Charles McIlhinney conceded as much. Yet in his mind, the mere prospect that it could exist outweighed the possibility that 700,000 citizens may lose their vote in November because of the state’s new voter ID law, which passed two months ago.

Proponents of tough new voting restrictions often argue that voter fraud cancels out honest votes, effectively disenfranchising you and me. The irony is that by trying to stamp out a fraud menace that doesn’t exist, millions of honest voters will be turned away from the polls. If widespread voter fraud existed, we should confront it. In the meantime, we shouldn’t make policy out of tall tales and paranoid fears.

ACLU: "There Is Almost No Voter Fraud in America."

The New York Times yesterday underscored an important fact that so many legislators have willfully ignored: "There is almost no voter fraud in America." Indeed, The Department of Justice investigated over 300 million votes cast between 2002 and 2007 and found no cases of voter impersonation fraud. In Texas, where Governor Rick Perry used a highly unusual procedural maneuver to accelerate passage of a bill requiring a government-issued photo ID to vote, the state Attorney General found no cases of voter impersonation fraud. Zero.

Nonetheless, under the guise of fighting "voter fraud," legislators instead limited voters' access to democracy. An unprecedented wave of restrictive laws added burdens to virtually every aspect of the voting process in fourteen states. A sampling of such ill-considered measures include:

Florida: onerous regulations now make voter registration drives virtually impossible;
Kansas: voters must show proof of citizenship when registering to vote and then show government-issued photo ID when voting;
Maine: Election Day Registration, which had been in place since 1973, has been eliminated;
Ohio: voters can no longer cast a ballot on the Sunday before Election Day; and
Texas: students' state university-issued IDs are not acceptable for voter identification purposes.
Combined, these suppressive measures disproportionately affect the young, elderly, disabled, low-income, minority, and working voters. Moreover, these regressive laws, especially those requiring government-issued photo ID, are expensive to implement.

At a time when many state legislatures are facing unprecedented budget constraints, legislators should turn their attention and direct scarce resources toward matters of actual relevance to their constituents, instead of wasting millions of dollars to combat a nonexistent problem.

Want to tell Attorney General Eric Holder and the Department of Justice to protect every citizen's right to vote? Take action here!

 

[JollyRoger]

When places like Texas will let you use a gun license to vote, but not a student id, the intent becomes pretty obvious. It is not about voter fraud, but vote suppression.

 

[LucyDuke]

Rest of story HERE

I didn't see anything that said that most forms of photo IDs are being rejected (what forms are there? Driving license, passport...?), or anything that said anything about registry purges, or anything local governments have done to put extra hoops in front of getting an ID. Specific claims.

It's not at all completely stupid

The accusation is only mostly stupid, it's your explanation that's completely stupid.

believe me, he wants illegals, ex-cons, etc to vote because they heavily favor the Dems, who he is completely in bed with on all issues whatsoever.

Why should anyone believe you?

 

[kochman]

The accusation is only mostly stupid, it's your explanation that's completely stupid.

It's stupid you think you are in a position to make that judgment on this topic.

ACLU: "There Is Almost No Voter Fraud in America."

Oh, must be true.
So, all the cases that have found voter fraud must just been fake.
Voter fraud has been going on since voting began... if you deny this, you are completely out of touch.

 

[LucyDuke]

It's stupid you think you are in a position to make that judgment on this topic.

It's stupider you think I'm not.

 

[Leoreth]

When places like Texas will let you use a gun license to vote, but not a student id, the intent becomes pretty obvious. It is not about voter fraud, but vote suppression.

Oh please say that's not true.

 

[kochman]

It's stupider you think I'm not.

More stupid is proper English
And, everyone has their opinions, I suppose.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Why resurrect this anus of a thread?

Because we continue to find right wingers who try to defend the indefensible while complaining others perceive them as being "scum"?

I didn't see anything that said that most forms of photo IDs are being rejected (what forms are there? Driving license, passport...?), or anything that said anything about registry purges, or anything local governments have done to put extra hoops in front of getting an ID. Specific claims.

I just provided specific examples above.