Are there, or should there be, objective standards of beauty?

BvBPL

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Pretty much what it says on the tin.

A recent collegiate beauty pageant in China imposed a variety of standards for participation. These include a minimum distance of 20 cm between the participants' nipples as well as arbitrary proportions for various measurements. The idea, I guess, is that beauty is something that can be measured, at least to a degree.

What do you think of the concept? Can beauty, or a minimum standard of beauty, be established through measurement of a person's physical attributes?

In regard to the cases of the Chinese pageant, this sure sounds like a literal meat market. 4-H and kennel clubs judge animals exactly the same way. Now, that may seem dehumanizing, but is it any worse than beauty pageants in west which are pretty dehumanizing themselves?

Also, before you reject the idea that beauty can be measured, consider that women are often judged on base physical attributes and that many of these attributes have established parameters. That is to say that women with larger breasts are often considered more attractive than women with smaller breasts (just to pick one measurement). Is the Chinese pageant just quantifying levels of attractiveness that may already be recognized in society?

Don't think you'll weasel out by simply saying that all beauty is relative, either individually or culturally. If you take that stance then I think you should still be asked to explain whether or not you can quantify beauty within individual or cultural standards and tell us why or why not you think that.

Linkie-poo.

By the way, as a means of reference the standard of measurement for beauty is the millihelen, which is a unit of beauty sufficient to launch one ship.
 
Don't think you'll weasel out by simply saying that all beauty is relative, either individually or culturally. If you take that stance then I think you should still be asked to explain whether or not you can quantify beauty within individual or cultural standards and tell us why or why not you think that.

It's not much of a standard if it varies from person to person is it.

By the way, as a means of reference the standard of measurement for beauty is the millihelen, which is a unit of beauty sufficient to launch one ship.

:lol: :goodjob:
 
Standards of beauty fluctuate and change with each generation. Curvy women used to be considered pretty back in the 60s and in the 20s skinny women were considered beautiful. We are back to the skinny for now...

I don't see what a source of objective standards of beauty would be. You can point to evolution and how it shaped us over millions of years and honed our sense of what's pretty and what isn't - but those are very vague ideas and don't seem to be very specific at all.

Unless you can locate another source of such objective standards, I think you'd have to conclude that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Yes there are objective measures of beauty. Such as 5'9, brown hair, green eyes, nice curves at 125 lbs and a rockin ass. AKA my wife. ;)
 
It's not much of a standard if it varies from person to person is it.

There can be an internally consistent measure within a subjective system. That's what I mean. So, yeah, you can have a standard if it is person to person.

Yes there are objective measures of beauty. Such as 5'9, brown hair, green eyes, nice curves at 125 lbs and a rockin ass. AKA my wife. ;)

:thumbsup:
 
Yes there are objective measures of beauty. Such as 5'9, brown hair, green eyes, nice curves at 125 lbs and a rockin ass. AKA my wife. ;)
She's gonna leave ya. It's inevitable.

Trust me. ;)
 
I think the question is if there are universal standards of beauty rather than objective, measurable standards. There obviously are objectively measurable standards for different types of beauty, else porn stars wouldn't gravitate to the phoney 34"-38" D-ish size. Are such standards universal for all people? I think that they are probably not.

Yeah and Warpus is right about size definitely. It's true at least if one compares neolithic figurines of women to typical fashion runway models.
 
I think it would be far more useful to identify objective standards of ugliness. I don't think the average person finds acne beautiful, for example.
 
I think it would be far more useful to identify objective standards of ugliness. I don't think the average person finds acne beautiful, for example.

This.

My personal opinion is that, once someone clears a certain threshold of "unugliness", we're in somewhat subjective territory. Butts or boobs? "Gorgeous" or "Cute?" Fox-faced or Tanuki-faced? Pale or tan? Dark hair or light hair? Tall or short? Athletic or curvy?

Ugliness, on the other hand, is probably much closer to hardwired, and I say that as someone kinda uglyish.
 
I think the question is if there are universal standards of beauty rather than objective, measurable standards. There obviously are objectively measurable standards for different types of beauty, else porn stars wouldn't gravitate to the phoney 34"-38" D-ish size.

These slowly change over time though..
 
I don't know about anybody else, but I'm done with anybody under six feet tall. Just too much of a hassle.
 
Objective beauty is conformance and relation to the form of Beauty, which lacks physical existence or characteristics.
 
Objective beauty is conformance and relation to the form of Beauty, which lacks physical existence or characteristics.

Dunno if I agree, but I've never really debated something like that deeply.

Why couldn't it simply be a reflection of something about the observer? Couldn't humans be similar enough to have "subjective" views that were uniform enough to be "objective?"
 
She's gonna leave ya. It's inevitable.

Trust me. ;)
You know, there's been a lot of line-crossing stuff posted about hobbsyoyo's wife, but I feel like this is pretty new territory in that regard.
I think it would be far more useful to identify objective standards of ugliness. I don't think the average person finds acne beautiful, for example.

Maybe, but couldn't we simply establish standards of beauty that contrast to these? I think smooth skin is most people would consider beautiful, and acne is considered ugly because it deviates from that standard. What's ugliness but absence of beauty really?
 
You know, I suspect a scientific standard of who you'd find attractive probably exists, but it probably depends on what your parents and childhood friends looked like, so any "standard" wouldn't be very useful.
 
You know, there's been a lot of line-crossing stuff posted about hobbsyoyo's wife, but I feel like this is pretty new territory in that regard.
Sowwy. :blush:

No offense, but saying over and over and over again that he has a hot wife just makes it seem like it's one of those cases where a guy gets overconfident or just sets himself up for failure, or something. (Best I can articulate it, for the moment.)

I hope I'm wrong though and am just being paranoid.
 
These slowly change over time though..

Yeah the phoney boobs do get kind of ugly over time.

Also I don't buy that beauty is strictly abstract and therefore non-factual. If we are going to argue that moral facts exist to describe an abstract concept like morality, then I think we have to admit that there are such a thing as beautiful facts else all the terms are nil.
 
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