Are you a Nice Guy who can't seem to get a date because you're too nice?

[JohannaK]

Lies, youre a woman, ergo you qualify automatically.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

But I have no interest in dating

 

[sophie]

But I have no interest in dating

Lies and slander. All women want to date. It is their one drive in life.

 

[TomYo689]

I think asexuality makes one the exact subject of this thread

 

[JohannaK]

I am not completely sure, but Id say its pretty safe to say Im asexual too.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I am not completely sure, but Id say its pretty safe to say Im asexual too.

If you were, you would be completely sure. There's no if ands or butts about it I think. Then again, what do I know?
_____________

What I do know is this thread started off as a wonderful expression of false victimhood, "I just can't get a date, which can't be my fault because women______"

or

"I'm a nice guy but not that kind of nice guy, but still every stereotype about nice guys applies to me, except the bad ones",

Then it briefly became a full-on ragefest against women.

Now it's just sad and has lots of stupid generalizations and people unwilling to take tough advice or personal responsibility for their failings. Everyone wants the fairy-tale ending with minimal effort; it doesn't work like that.

 

[JohannaK]

I only know I dont know. But since Im not interested in sex, I think its quite possible that I am.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Eh, ok.

 

[Farm Boy]

If you were, you would be completely sure. There's no if ands or butts about it I think. Then again, what do I know?

Now it's just sad and has lots of stupid generalizations and people unwilling to take tough advice or personal responsibility for their failings. Everyone wants the fairy-tale ending with minimal effort; it doesn't work like that.

Particularly no attractive butts.

Agree with the last point. Assume that all the long-term "goals" of dating pan out, and you wind up with a beautiful wife and child(ren) the amount of effort required to date, even with all the inherent rejection and wasted effort, winds up looking like a walk in the park in terms of input required. At least that's my anecdote.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yup.

It just frustrates me that so many people here have an inability to even approach women and then blame that fact on the women themselves and a myriad of other excuses like the whole 'nice guys can't get women' stereotype (which is a stereotype of women as much as it is of 'nice guys'). Then they refuse to even seriously contemplate the one piece of advice that actually will get them a date (hey, why don't you try talking to women and ask a few of them out) and again pin that on forces other than themselves.

You can't get a girlfriend unless you work at it. You will be rejected. That's life, get used to it.

I do understand that the average age here is around late teens (which in my experience makes the emotional stakes of asking a girl out higher and therefore it's something much harder to do) and there is some other selection biases at work that make the average OTer less likely to land a girl as well.

But people have to grow out of it, or at least accept their own culpability in their failure to do so (or to even try to do so).

Before I met my wife, I was the exact same. I had such a hard time approaching women and blamed it on the 'nice guy' stereotype. But I watched how successful guys went about it (they asked girls out - that's all there is too it, oh and don't treat each proposition as a life-altering event, it's not that big a deal guys) and aped them. Hell, my wife turned me down and I pursued her off-and-on for a year before I got a date.

Getting a date is not hard. It is also not a big deal. Gentlemen, I know your emotions run high when you want to ask that girl you've been pining over out, but try not to let them. Control yourselves and your emotions.

Or - ask another chick out for practice. Hell, you might just land a date since you won't be so worked up over it that you can't go through with just asking the question. She may not be the one you want the practice will help you get the other one.


I realize these are very broad statements that could apply to a lot of people or be misconstrued in a very negative way. I'm just trying to be brutally honest with people who keep circling around the same problem when there is obvious solutions at hand. I have also seen the same kinds of sentiments that I'm addressing here expressed in enough threads to feel comfortable making sweeping generalizations about it.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[TomYo689]

You can get a girlfriend without working at it. Possibly a large amount of the 'nice guy without date' has other personal reasons for not lowering their standards or whatever. The stereotype is a convenient way to put aside ones own problems

 

[sophie]

You can get a girlfriend without working at it. Possibly a large amount of the 'nice guy without date' has other personal reasons for not lowering their standards or whatever. The stereotype is a convenient way to put aside ones own problems

This is untrue for the most part. You could be the hunkiest guy in the world but it's not going to count for anything unless you at the least make a move. Expecting the opposite partner of interest (regardless of whether that be a guy or a girl) to make the first move is, in my experience, generally the most common reason people don't end up going out with that girl/guy they like.

 

[Hygro]

Which part do you disagree with?

Well I posted a bit about it already, but the alpha male concept is neither biologically sound nor is it particularly empirically evident. First, the concept that there are human alpha males is sketchy. Alpha males in other species have noticeable differences, whereas social status in a single group of men doesn't have anywhere near the physiological divergence.

Second, as I mentioned one or two times, it may SEEM like the macho men are getting the hot desirable women, but really its the loud men getting the loud women. It makes it seem like it's a bigger thing than it is. Loud women are not just attractive but showy in appearance or dramatic and engaging. Loud men are not necessarily winning in any meaningful sense but are acting like they know better while narcissistically focusing on appearance rather than content. E.G. building bulky muscles and talking a lot and loudly and being confrontational rather than building strength, learning, and actualizing their own core values.

Both those men and women attract the most attention, and so yes, they get more play. But as mentioned, it's a numbers game, they don't get better play or more play per capita necessarily.

Third, going off that, we've seen loads of nice, reserved, normal men getting quality women. And the kinder and less assuming, often the better the women they attract and are attracted to as well. Part of why the pickup community has been diverging in its focus is because a lot of the older dudes realized the second point and were miserable people, and just wanted to get girlfriends who would actually make them happy. That's why I was making my joke on it being 2007ish, because being a jerk was still canon.

So instead of examining the loud "alpha", the new wave looked around at the quieter folk and realized these nice so called "beta" dudes were making friends with nice women, even hot nice women, and then getting into relationships later. The new wave, mind you, is still mostly unhealthy for all the same reasons (external validation for their self worth). Some broke out. I don't follow it closely.

Fourth, there's an age thing at play. Trends indicate your concept is trends more true relative to younger women, but we don't know if its a majority. And it drops off as those women get older, like the old-old age of mid 20s.

Apologies for the massive edit below, for those who already saw it. I got uncomfortable with how personal I got:

I can tell you from my own experience I am biased towards my above thoughts. The nicer, more interested, less gamey I've been, the happier and healthier my relationships have been. And there was never a dearth of attractive women who responded to treating them well. It's just slower. And game, while increased the speed and supply of hookups, actually reduced the proportion of women who responded positively to my interest. It looked like I was better with women being more "alpha", but I was worse. This is very frequently true among "successful" pickup/alpha-minded practitioners.

You know what's uniformly worked best for me for getting into relationships whether or not the relationship was healthy or unhealthy? Telling the girl I liked her, and asking her on real dates. The rejection hurts more authentically, and deeper, but it's also easier to recover from because you can tell yourself "well, dammit, I tried, and for that I am proud". In fact, you can gain self esteem getting rejected from being genuine. If you get rejected doing pickup, being pickup minded, you lose self esteem because your identity is tied into seeking women.

Now, I will grant you status is attractive. But it attracts disproportionately status seeking people, and even when it attracts more down-to-earth folk too, status often doesn't look like anything we'd call an alpha male.

I misread his post, SORRY! rolleyes

But I mean what I said in a general sense, as well. It's hard to offer advice to people one has never met in person.

Righto. I actually made the reading mistake the first time I read CG's post. But CG hasn't been seeking advice the past year or so, he's been comfortably acknowledging himself. I made the response I did because, while I'm a huge hypocrite in saying this, it can be good to be reserved about giving advice. I know I end up listening better.

Erm, I just gave advice about giving advice. Sorry about that

I have no idea why but this thread is rather funny, especially when some of the males here are telling females that they're wrong about how women think.

Exactly. Now sometimes men give better dating advice to other men than women do, but the truth is most women understand what they want than most men think women want. It's just a matter of knowing how to listen, and communicate it back.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You know what's uniformly worked best for me for getting into relationships whether or not the relationship was healthy or unhealthy? Telling the girl I liked her, and asking her on real dates.

This, shouted from the top of the nearest mountain over and over again.

 

[Chiteng]

Well actually I have a sure fire method that does work, however it requires some
finesse by the user.

Almost all single women I know enjoy a good time. i.e. 'fun'

Whatever that means to the individual girl.

Show her a good time, and she will come back. It is quite simple really.

 

[Hygro]

Well actually I have a sure fire method that does work, however it requires some
finesse by the user.

Almost all single women I know enjoy a good time. i.e. 'fun'

Whatever that means to the individual girl.

Show her a good time, and she will come back. It is quite simple really.

Which is effectively code for, almost anything that doesn't suck, and some of the things that do, too. It just varies.

This, shouted from the top of the nearest mountain over and over again.

ECHO. Echo. echo. echo ;D

At my school there's a bunch of, to the loud people, outwardly boring status-free awkward young dudes who seem completely unattractive and totally so beta male they are gamma. If you buy into the alpha-beta silliness They get girls I couldn't during my days of being "good" with getting women. Those women were completely turned off by my "alpha" behavior. And some of them are damn cute.

 

[warpus]

Second, as I mentioned one or two times, it may SEEM like the macho men are getting the hot desirable women, but really its the loud men getting the loud women.

All good points in your post, and yes, the subject is fairly complex. I mean, there are many biological, social, cultural, socioeconomic, etc. factors at play. It's obviously not as simple as "alpha males get women, beta males get crap"

I did not really think too hard about my definition of what an "Alpha male" really is, but I did not associate it with macho men exactly, but rather dominant males... not necessarily in terms of physique or even strength, but those who lead, know how to lead, or just end up dominating social groups in some way.. or have the capability of doing so.

My hypothesis is that dominant males are more attractive to women on average, because it was that sort of dominant character trait that made them more attractive mates for millions of years, before the advent of civilization. They were better able to get crap done, find food, and fend off other males who wanted to bag their woman, not to mention defense from other tribes and predators.

Obviously there is a lot more stuff going on here now that we have shiny watches and no predators around to kill our babies, but I would be surprised if the underlying dynamics have gone away completely. I think they are still there, at the base of it all. We've just piled a whole bunch of other stuff on top of it all, masking our true animal nature to a degree.

 

[Neomega]

So has anybody mentioned that women complain about men only wanting female dogs and sluts, and not nice girls? Because I've heard that one a few times too.

 

[PlutonianEmpire]

This thread is asinine.

It did give me a better perspective on myself, so kudos to the more rational arguments here.

 

[warpus]

Am I totally crazy for wanting to analyze human behaviour the same way scientsits study animal behaviour? It just seems so logical