Article: Why Income Inequality Matters

Lotus49

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Charles Wheelan said:
The holiday season was very joyous on Wall Street. CEOs and lots of others took home some of the biggest checks ever.

I like a $50 million bonus as much as the next guy (although the most I can recall getting was $1,000), but those huge paydays beg a larger social and economic question: Does income inequality matter?

Mind the Gap

I'm not asking if we should care about the well-being of our poorest citizens. We should. This is a more subtle question: Should we care about the size of the gap between the rich and poor?

If we succeed in raising the incomes of the poor, does it matter if incomes at the top are rising even faster, making us a more unequal society overall?

By coincidence, I was in Brazil in December while those giant Wall Street bonuses were being handed out. Brazil has one of the largest gaps between rich and poor on the planet. Having experienced that gap firsthand -- from the slums run by drug traffickers at one end to the lovely apartments with bulletproof doors at the other -- I'm convinced that income inequality does matter.

If the gap between rich and poor gets too large, and if those at the bottom feel they have no meaningful route to the riches at the top, then the fabric of society will fray, or even come unraveled entirely.

Violence Literally Doesn't Pay

Life gets pretty scary -- no matter how much money you've got -- when a segment of society decides that they're no longer going to play by the rules.

Shortly before I arrived in Brazil, a British tour bus was hijacked and robbed in broad daylight on the way from Rio's international airport to a ritzy beach area. While I was there, two Supreme Court justices were carjacked on the same road.

Overall, the murder rate in Brazil is five times that of New York City. As in the United States, much of that violence is poor-on-poor, although the toll redounds everywhere. The New York Times reported recently on a World Bank study concluding that if Brazil had the much lower homicide rate of Costa Rica, Brazil's GDP would have been three to eight percent higher in the 1990s.

As one economist explained in the article, "You have money spent on guarding stuff rather than making stuff." And when international investors look around the globe, they choose safer places.

The Gini Out of the Bottle

Is this violence a direct result of income inequality? Almost certainly not. Brazil has a history of slavery and colonization that was far more brutal than the U.S. It would require a team of sociologists, historians, economists, and criminologists to explain the roots of violence in Brazil. Based on my knowledge of academics, I don't think they would come to a conclusion anyway.

Still, one can't spend time in Brazil without wondering about income inequality at home. Let's take a look at some numbers.

The most convenient statistic for measuring income inequality is called a Gini coefficient, which measures a country's distribution of income from 0 (absolute equality, with each person sharing the same amount of wealth) to 1 (absolute inequality, with one person controlling all of the nation's wealth).

Here's what that statistic looks like for a handful of countries, including contemporary and historic figures for the U.S.:

* Japan: .25
* Sweden: .25
* India: .33
* The United States 1970: .39
* The United States 2005: .47 (Note that a small fraction of the increase over time is due to a change in the methodology for calculating the Gini coefficient; still, income inequality has climbed steadily by this measure over the past four decades.)
* Brazil: .58

A Reason to Get Up in the Morning

So what? Obviously income inequality is just one statistic; it doesn't reflect the size of the pie, only how it's divided. The Soviet Union was a very equal place -- equally poor.

In fact, there are some really good things about income inequality, namely that it motivates risk, hard work, and innovation. I'm sure Wall Street bankers are motivated by a love of their work -- but a $50 million bonus can also help you get out of bed in the morning.

As a matter of fact, high salaries motivate not only the people who get them, but also the people who would like to get them in the future -- a phenomenon that economists refer to as a "tournament effect."

Thus, a $50 million bonus for a Wall Street CEO also inspires that ambitious guy in the mailroom to get out of bed if he thinks he's got a shot at being CEO someday. Even my undergraduate economics students work harder because they need good grades in order to get coveted investment banking jobs.

A Bigger Pie, or a Bigger Slice?

What's the problem, then? I think there are at least two reasons to be cognizant of income inequality in the U.S.:

1. Is there still really a path from rags to riches?

I've spent enough time in inner-city schools to wonder if we're really providing an opportunity for the motivated and gifted to make their way from the projects to Wall Street.

Yes, it happens -- you can watch Will Smith do it at your local multiplex in The Pursuit of Happyness, which is inspired by a true story. But how often does it not happen?

I'm convinced that part of what's going on in Brazil is that the socioeconomic ladder is broken. There's no real path from favela to bulletproof apartment, and some people with guns have decided that they don't want to play by the rules made by the people in those apartments.

Income inequality doesn't motivate anything good when there's no hope of sharing in the pot of gold.

2. There's a very interesting strain of economic research showing that our sense of well-being is determined more by our relative wealth than by our absolute wealth.

In other words, we care less about how much money we have than we do about how much money we have relative to everyone else. In a fascinating survey, Cornell economist Robert Frank found that a majority of Americans would prefer to earn $100,000 while everyone else earns $85,000, rather than earning $110,000 while everyone else earns $200,000.

Think about it: People would prefer to have less stuff, as long as they have more stuff than the neighbors.

The point -- and this is still a nascent field -- is that a nation may be collectively better off (using some abstract measure of well-being) with a smaller, more evenly divided pie than with a larger pie that's sliced less equitably. Reasonable people can and should argue about that.

What's clear, however, is that one key difference between poverty in 1900 and poverty in 2007 is that even the poorest households -- in Brazil or the U.S. or anywhere else -- can turn on the television and see how the other half lives. It's one thing to be poor; it's another to be continually reminded exactly how poor you are.

At a minimum, we should question whether a bigger pie is always better.

Name Your Poison

There's no right answer as to how society ought to look. That's a matter of personal philosophy. Indeed, I still find a thought experiment proposed by philosopher John Rawls as relevant as anything that economics can offer.

Rawls argued that decisions about economic justice should be made behind a "veil of ignorance." How would you want the world to look if you were going to be born tomorrow but didn't know the economic station into which you would be born?

If you were going to be born somewhere in America tomorrow -- in the projects of Chicago or perhaps into one of those families that brought home $50 million this bonus season -- what would you want the economic landscape to look like today?

Would you want a distribution of income that looked more like Sweden's, or Brazil's? It's worth thinking about.

http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/article/economist/19750


I found this article interesting, relevant to discussions usually seen around this forum, plus it actually changed my point of view a bit. Still, this is not an issue in which it's easy to find a perfect solution. Hmmm, perhaps America is still running at just slightly too high a gear (like an emerging economy) and needs to downshift a gear towards 'the left' and take it's place among the developed Western economic powers. -And that's incredibly difficult for me to say (I tend towards balls-to-the-wall capitalism, where growth is paramount). But, like a mature int'l corporation that gets so big it simply can't grow anywhere near the rate it used to, perhaps it's time to hike up the dividend, and return some wealth to all the shareholders rather than keep scratching for modest growth while neglecting the little guys. -To use an analogy.
 
I'm going to write that I agree before someone calls us both socialists or communists.
 
If the gap between rich and poor gets too large, and if those at the bottom feel they have no meaningful route to the riches at the top, then the fabric of society will fray, or even come unraveled entirely
That's a big if.
 
Commies!!!!!!!

Rich people are rich so what.

Tell me how many millions have Bill Gates and Warren buffet given away?

How many trillions have rich people spent on products the not so rich have a job making?


If the gap between rich and poor gets too large, and if those at the bottom feel they have no meaningful route to the riches at the top, then the fabric of society will fray, or even come unraveled entirely.
Seeing as the gap is getting wider but thats only between to two extreams. For the most part average joe is moving up too. I those at the bottom realy feel they can't too be successful it has to do with their own self worth outlook and not the reality they live in. Rags to riches stories happen all the time. I don't feel sorry for these people, they feel sorry for them selves enough already.
 
I don't think the article addressed income inequality at all, it addressed how absolute poverty was bad, and that people want to be richer than others rather than having others richer than them.
 
The shareholders and employees at Goldman Sachs were extremely well rewarded (~$130 Dec. 2005 to ~$212 today) and is far from a mature business. Paying a higher dividend means capital out of the company and is lazy. If your business is people (IE Goldman Sachs) then want to keep the best and brightest you pay them ridiculously well. It's the carrot that makes that investment banker work an 18 hour days and get up 2 hours later to catch a flight from New York to San Fran and do it all over again.
 
Well i don't know how anybody could truly justify income inequality except for that tired old argument that somehow the majority of rich people "Earned it" when the circumstances in life, and luck usually play the biggest role (mind you working hard is a great virtue too, it's just that many do work hard but never go from rags to riches)

But once again, capitalism , love it and hate it is so far the best thing we have
 
2. There's a very interesting strain of economic research showing that our sense of well-being is determined more by our relative wealth than by our absolute wealth.

In other words, we care less about how much money we have than we do about how much money we have relative to everyone else. In a fascinating survey, Cornell economist Robert Frank found that a majority of Americans would prefer to earn $100,000 while everyone else earns $85,000, rather than earning $110,000 while everyone else earns $200,000.

Think about it: People would prefer to have less stuff, as long as they have more stuff than the neighbors.

The point -- and this is still a nascent field -- is that a nation may be collectively better off (using some abstract measure of well-being) with a smaller, more evenly divided pie than with a larger pie that's sliced less equitably. Reasonable people can and should argue about that.

I have heard of that before. The greatest difficulty I have with that argument is that it makes envy a legitimate basis for social policy. What if people were generally suspicious of some racial minority and felt that they would be happier as long as their incomes were higher than those of the racial minority? It need not be race, of course. It could be gender, occupation, people of other countries or whatever.

As for the recent rise in income inequality in the U.S.A., it may be beneficial. It all depends on how it came about. If technological progress carrying with it higher returns on capital is a good thing, then why should not better education leading to higher returns on human capital be desirable? If this is the reason behind the 'widening gap' in the U.S., increased inequality may be a good thing. Of course, the American educational system is not perfect by a long shot. Rather than more redistribution, it may be worthwile to focus on reform of the educational system to lower income inequality.

I don't know how most studies of inequality are carried out, but in case the GINI coefficient does not take into account non-monetary compensation (such as employer-provided insurance) and redistributive measures like the EITC, the results may not be wholly accurate. I personally prefer measuring consumption, rather than income, as consumption is likely to remain fairly stable when individuals are between jobs (because individuals know that future income will cover temporarily unsustainable consumption). I think consumption is a better proxy for measuring hardship than is income.
 
Commies!!!!!!!

Rich people are rich so what.

Tell me how many millions have Bill Gates and Warren buffet given away?

How many trillions have rich people spent on products the not so rich have a job making?


Seeing as the gap is getting wider but thats only between to two extreams. For the most part average joe is moving up too. I those at the bottom realy feel they can't too be successful it has to do with their own self worth outlook and not the reality they live in. Rags to riches stories happen all the time. I don't feel sorry for these people, they feel sorry for them selves enough already.


I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are incorrigably and unapologetically middle class. Ok we get it already, poor people are just lazy, Rich people worked hard to get where they are with no breaks whatsoever. Poor people should be rounded up and put into death camps, blah,blah,blah.

Enough with the trite homilies already, we get it:p :)

And by the way the poor are moving down or stagnating while the rich get richer. So if an avergae schmo happens to be poor, he's having a tougher time than he used to, of course because he's lazy and shiftless, but that goes without saying ;)
 
Warren Buffet? He's giving his money away to the only person on the planet richer than him - Bill Gates.:lol:

And what did they do with the money? How much have you given?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are incorrigably and unapologetically middle class. Ok we get it already, poor people are just lazy, Rich people worked hard to get where they are with no breaks whatsoever. Poor people should be rounded up and put into death camps, blah,blah,blah.;)
Your conclusion is wrong. I'm part of the upper class that worked his way up from being dead broke. And your mischaracterasation of what I did say is pathetic. You clearly haven't read any thing I posted on the ecomonic and income classes in America. By the way how long have you lived and worked in America?

Enough with the trite homilies already, we get it:p :)
No you don't get it. If you did I wouldn't need to repeate my "trite homilies".

And by the way the poor are moving down or stagnating while the rich get richer. So if an avergae schmo happens to be poor, he's having a tougher time than he used to, of course because he's lazy and shiftless, but that goes without saying ;)
The average joe is moving up in America. And they aren't lazy and shiftless they just don't try hard enough to improve their lot in life. I don't expect the likes of you to understand how that works since you failed so miserably at understanding what I posted....or you porpusly misrepresented my words in with case it's just dishonest.
 
Education, Education, Education.

If you want to prattle against income inequality, you should be ashamed of our primary educational system, as its very much responsible for the economic situation of lower-income families.

Capitalism works well in creating wealth. No one said or claims it creates income equality (just equality of opportunity). It is on the educational system, and your politicians, to ensure that the state and local authorities provide the KSA's necessary for people to rise through the ranks.

80% of American households are class-mobile (they move from one class to another many times, and normally its from lower-mid and mid-high (except in recessions, reverse it))

Before you all prattle on a subject you know nothing about save reading a yahoo article (sigh), why don't you spend 20 bucks, and buy Sudhir Venkatesh's "Off the Books" It's all about the poor and the underground economy and what's going on amongst the poorest people in Chicago.

Read that, and then let me know what you think.
 
And what did they do with the money? How much have you given?

Your conclusion is wrong. I'm part of the upper class that worked his way up from being dead broke. And your mischaracterasation of what I did say is pathetic. You clearly haven't read any thing I posted on the ecomonic and income classes in America. By the way how long have you lived and worked in America?

No you don't get it. If you did I wouldn't need to repeate my "trite homilies".


The average joe is moving up in America. And they aren't lazy and shiftless they just don't try hard enough to improve their lot in life. I don't expect the likes of you to understand how that works since you failed so miserably at understanding what I posted....or you porpusly misrepresented my words in with case it's just dishonest.

You sound like the sort of person who just because you made it thinks it's easy to do. And you sound like you've forgotten what it was like at the bottom how much harder you had to work to keep your head above water, how few breaks you were given and what a tough old world it is being poor.

Because now you seem to have no sympathy for anything a poverty stricken individual has to go through. So yes I mock you, because from what you say, you sound quite arrogant, and blinkered, which for someone who came up through the slime to stand at the top of slime heap, is pretty unusual.

And did you read the economist article, it clearly shows that the poor are either stagnating or getting poorer, you can argue with that if you like but I'd need a link.
 
You sound like the sort of person who just because you made it thinks it's easy to do. And you sound like you've forgotten what it was like at the bottom how much harder you had to work to keep your head above water, how few breaks you were given and what a tough old world it is being poor.

Because now you seem to have no sympathy for anything a poverty stricken individual has to go through. So yes I mock you, because from what you say, you sound quite arrogant, and blinkered, which for someone who came up through the slime to stand at the top of slime heap, is pretty unusual.

And did you read the economist article, it clearly shows that the poor are either stagnating or getting poorer, you can argue with that if you like but I'd need a link.

So you've lived and worked for how many years in America? You've been poor in America for how long? You were educated for how many years in America? You've been middle class for how many years in America? You took how many of the oppertunities to get ahead in America?

Mock me all you want what you can't do is tell me what its like to be poor in America or to better you stake in America.
 
So you've lived and worked for how many years in America? You've been poor in America for how long? You were educated for how many years in America? You've been middle class for how many years in America? You took how many of the oppertunities to get ahead in America?

Mock me all you want what you can't do is tell me what its like to be poor in America or to better you stake in America.

Ok I will then, I got my ideas from talking to Americans about it, so sorry if it's not enough. Never mind, I still think your quite a callous and selfish person for mocking the poor, and yes you did call them lazy on another thread, I find your attitude to be quite bigotted frankly and thus the posts.
 
Before you all prattle on a subject you know nothing about save reading a yahoo article (sigh), why don't you spend 20 bucks, and buy Sudhir Venkatesh's "Off the Books" It's all about the poor and the underground economy and what's going on amongst the poorest people in Chicago.

Read that, and then let me know what you think.
Great book and this week was a great example of that community when a alderman was raided by the FBI...aggressively. Her position gave her immense underground power. Shady real estate deals, guns, drugs, bribes...


Sun Times said:
The FBI says it found a revolver, ammunition, suspected drugs and drug paraphernalia when it searched Ald. Arenda Troutman’s home earlier this week.
Agents also found “white powdery substance in a Ziploc plastic bag” when they went through her office. And they recovered a Christmas card with a $100 bill stuffed in it from a Chicago police commander.

The items are listed in an inventory of what was seized from the alderman’s home and office after Troutman was arrested on federal bribery charges.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/208740,trout12_raid.article

I saw it firsthand last night when the store in my building caught a guy trying to nab multiple bottles of Absolut. When the police arrived they found all kinds of goodies he stole that day.

Holly lives it everyday with her students...the good news is her class has raised their reading grade level one grade. Since it's a charter school she stands to make a nice bonus.
 
Ok I will then, I got my ideas from talking to Americans about it, so sorry if it's not enough. Never mind, I still think your quite a callous and selfish person for mocking the poor, and yes you did call them lazy on another thread, I find your attitude to be quite bigotted frankly and thus the posts.

I'm sorry are you going to answer my questions? How many poor Americans have you talked to? Selfish? I've given out plenty to help others not just money but oppertunity too. Callous? I call it tough love. How exactly am I a biggot?

But you're the expert having lived and worked and been poor in America for how long?
 
I'm sorry are you going to answer my questions? How many poor Americans have you talked to? Selfish? I've given out plenty to help others not just money but oppertunity too. Callous? I call it tough love. How exactly am I a biggot?

But you're the expert having lived and worked and been poor in America for how long?

That's a logical fallacy, claiming someone cannot argue about something unless they have experienced it first hand. Come now I can argue about Stalins Russia if I like, all you need to argue about something is to have some evidence of that which your trying to advocate.

As far as I'm concerned the economist article is right in that it takes 3 seperate reports and concludes that the poor are getting poorer or stagnating and the rich richer, and that social mobility is also going down. Now I suggest you keep away from logical fallacy and read that article, and then present a counter argument to it's assertions. Or you can resort to the argument from authority logical fallacy it's up to you.

I'm not going to answer your questions because I have already given them the attention they deserve.
 
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