Ask A Catholic II

[timtofly]

Taking both of these views to their extreme just leaves more suffering I feel.



I really just feel like I'm arguing now, so this will be the last thing I say.

Birth control does not cause ANY suffering. It does not harm anyone, either the parties involved or anyone else. The only way you can justify it is if you think the chief reason for sex is to have kids, in which case...

Doing so just to leave them in the street or broken homes is just immoral.

The problem is when people are irresponsible and have kids they can never take care of.

And if a gay home that is otherwise stable is the only place to put that kid, well, I'm sorry, but putting him on the street is NOT the more loving option.

And if we all took Catholic morality, we'd have more problems like this (Since birth control is totally condemned) not less.

I think that only abstinance can be the only form that will not cause suffering other than the emotional stress of attempting it. Birth control in the form of a chemical can cause suffering. I'm not so sure I would swear latex may not either.

 

[Arakhor]

Abstinence really worked for the Virgin Mary, didn't it?

 

[GhostWriter16]

She only abstained until Christ was born.

 

[civ_king]

Presumably the reasoning is "all life is sacred and therefore even preventing contraception is defying God's will" and "homosexuals are sinners and should never be allowed to love, let alone be parents". Once you have those two viewpoints, you're not left with a lot of wiggle-room, are you?

Neither of these are actually Catholic views

Taking both of these views to their extreme just leaves more suffering I feel.



I really just feel like I'm arguing now, so this will be the last thing I say.

Birth control does not cause ANY suffering. It does not harm anyone, either the parties involved or anyone else. The only way you can justify it is if you think the chief reason for sex is to have kids, in which case...

Doing so just to leave them in the street or broken homes is just immoral.

The problem is when people are irresponsible and have kids they can never take care of.

And if a gay home that is otherwise stable is the only place to put that kid, well, I'm sorry, but putting him on the street is NOT the more loving option.

And if we all took Catholic morality, we'd have more problems like this (Since birth control is totally condemned) not less.

Stripping the chance of children from conjugal relations defiles it.

Those would be entirely unwanted side effects. Did you know that states that allow gay marriage basically are shutting Catholic adoption services down? Shutting down adoption services is not helping.

Then they shouldn't be having children!

That's strawmaning my argument whether you realize it or not.

The rate of children born out of wedlock is around 40%, that would disappear if everyone follow Catholic morality and you know children born out of wedlock are much more likely to be abandoned or run away

Abstinence really worked for the Virgin Mary, didn't it?

Got any other exceptions?

She only abstained until Christ was born.

Which verse does it say she engaged in sex with God the Father?

 

[Arakhor]

What gives you the idea that illegitimate children are more likely to be abandoned or grow up badly?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Stripping the chance of children from conjugal relations defiles it.

So says the Catholic Church.

Those would be entirely unwanted side effects. Did you know that states that allow gay marriage basically are shutting Catholic adoption services down? Shutting down adoption services is not helping.

That's a problem, but its not a NECESSARY side effect.

Note that I didn't say that there should be gay marriage, I said that if a gay adoption is the only way to get a kid a home it should be allowed.

Then they shouldn't be having children!

Well, I certainly oppose sex outside of marriage, but if they're going to do it, contraception at the minimum minimizes the chances that someone else suffers for their actions (Doesn't make it OK though.)

And what about a married couple that can't afford more kids?

That's strawmaning my argument whether you realize it or not.

Well, you seem to be suggesting that if those are the two choices, they should be put in the street. I never said gay adoption is IDEAL.

 

[civ_king]

What gives you the idea that illegitimate children are more likely to be abandoned or grow up badly?

Since illegitimate children are massively on the rise in black communities how well have black men fared with the legal system?

So says the Catholic Church.




That's a problem, but its not a NECESSARY side effect.

Note that I didn't say that there should be gay marriage, I said that if a gay adoption is the only way to get a kid a home it should be allowed.


That's strawmaning my argument whether you realize it or not.

The rate of children born out of wedlock is around 40%, that would disappear if everyone follow Catholic morality and you know children born out of wedlock are much more likely to be abandoned or run away

I'd like to point out that this is the Ask a Catholic thread

actually it is a necessary result of gay marriage, and normally when the negatives are worse than the positives it means an idea should not be done.

Why is part of what I said not in quotes?

 

[GhostWriter16]

I'd like to point out that this is the Ask a Catholic thread

That is true. I've become what I hate. I apologize.

actually it is a necessary result of gay marriage, and normally when the negatives are worse than the positives it means an idea should not be done.

I'm against gay marriage anyways.

And to the last part, I accidentally made a mistake.

 

[Arakhor]

Since illegitimate children are massively on the rise in black communities how well have black men fared with the legal system?

I'm not sure what routine discrimination against black people has to do with illegitimacy. Why do unmarried parents have a greater chance of abandoning their baby than married parents?

 

[civ_king]

I'm not sure what routine discrimination against black people has to do with illegitimacy. Why do unmarried parents have a greater chance of abandoning their baby than married parents?

The 40% counts all births out of wedlock, including absentee father cases

 

[kochman]

Why do unmarried parents have a greater chance of abandoning their baby than married parents?

Unmarried = no certain commitment. There are some unmarried relationships that obviously have commitments, but all married relationships have a commitment.

 

[NBAfan]

Birth control does not cause ANY suffering. It does not harm anyone, either the parties involved or anyone else. The only way you can justify it is if you think the chief reason for sex is to have kids, in which case...

BC is a problem, if sex isn't about children, then you have the slippery slope of sex outside of marriage, which then leads to homosexuality being ok.

This thinking also leads to things such as euthanasia.

 

[civ_king]

BC is a problem, if sex isn't about children, then you have the slippery slope of sex outside of marriage, which then leads to homosexuality being ok and next incest.

This thinking also leads to things such as euthanasia.

:backhand:
Surely you can't be serious

 

[NBAfan]

:backhand:
Surely you can't be serious

If homosexuality is fine, then logically, what is wrong with incest with consent?

 

[useless]

If homosexuality is fine, then logically, what is wrong with incest?

Homosexuality is between Two consenting adults.

Incest is not.

 

[Takhisis]

Incest can be between two consenting adults, homosexuality doesn't imply consent.

 

[civ_king]

If homosexuality is fine, then logically, what is wrong with incest with consent?

What exactly do you mean by "homosexuality"?

 

[timtofly]

I would not be offended. I memorized this verse here.

 

[NBAfan]

What exactly do you mean by "homosexuality"?

Like homosexual acts for example.

 

[Arakhor]

You know, drawing comparisons between incest and homosexuality is just as offensive as other comparisons that certain posters were wont to do in earlier days.