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Anyone here still believe Mr. Corapi?

On July 5, the Catholic News Agency reported that Father John Corapi’s religious order, SOLT (Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity) has found him guilty of substance abuse, sexual activity and violating his promise of poverty.

Investigators have concluded that while Father Corapi was involved in public ministry he had “sexual relations and years of cohabitation with a woman known to him, when the relationship began, as a prostitute.”

They also found that he “repeatedly abused alcohol and drugs,” “recently engaged in ‘sexting’ activity with one or more women in Montana,” and holds legal title “to over $1 million in real estate, numerous luxury vehicles, motorcycles, an ATV, a boat dock, and several motor boats.”

Source: http://www.huliq.com/10280/we-find-defendant-john-corapi-guilty

How did this go unnoticed for so long?
 
If homoaffectiomate couples are allowed, is it acceptable for them to rear children together?

Homoaffectionate couples (at least if they are what I think you mean) are not allowed. Good and firm friendships between individuals of the same sex no matter their inclination are naturally permitted, but when that takes on an erotic dimension then that relationship is beginning to walk a very fine line. I would not think a relationship of the sort I think you mean would be looked on with favour even if it does not outright fall into the sin of homosexual acts.

Furthermore just to mention it, gay "marriage" and any sort of attempt make such a union equivakent to a married couple is reprehensible and condemned.

As to your actual question though, the answer is: NO

A child deserves the privelege of having a father and a mother. This is also vitally necessary as a child requires models of both femininity and masculinity in order to learn develop properly their own masculinity/feminity and to learn the proper manner of inter-relationships of those of the opposite sex. Without this, the child is ultimately deprived and one would be actually harming the child by raising it within a relationship structure that is incorrect.

Indeed I personally think that a great deal of the problems in contemprary society is the result of the failure of a previous generation to recognise that male and female are distinct and separate and that they work in complimentarity. They are equal yes, but that equality consists in differentiations of function and being that together form the sum whole of the human experience. One can simply equate male and female as being the equivalent to each other to the point that the duality of male in female is redefined merely to a question of "gender".
 
I'm aware that homosexual relationships are condemned, hence the use of "affectionate" rather than "romantic." Basically, I'm referring to a strong, exclusive and nonsexual relationship between two individuals of the same sex. I'm going by what I recall of civ king's posts, so if he wants to correct me, that's cool.

So are single people forbidden to adopt by the same logic?
 
Ah but would not a strong, affectionate and non-sexual relationship simply be a strong friendship and have nothing to do with homosexual inclinations?

As to exclusive, what do you mean by that?
 
If homoaffectiomate couples are allowed, is it acceptable for them to rear children together?
No, the Catholic Church only approves of adoptions by married couples (obviously man and woman)
Homoaffectionate couples (at least if they are what I think you mean) are not allowed. Good and firm friendships between individuals of the same sex no matter their inclination are naturally permitted, but when that takes on an erotic dimension then that relationship is beginning to walk a very fine line. I would not think a relationship of the sort I think you mean would be looked on with favour even if it does not outright fall into the sin of homosexual acts.

Furthermore just to mention it, gay "marriage" and any sort of attempt make such a union equivalent to a married couple is reprehensible and condemned.

As to your actual question though, the answer is: NO

A child deserves the privilege of having a father and a mother. This is also vitally necessary as a child requires models of both femininity and masculinity in order to learn develop properly their own masculinity/femininity and to learn the proper manner of inter-relationships of those of the opposite sex. Without this, the child is ultimately deprived and one would be actually harming the child by raising it within a relationship structure that is incorrect.

Indeed I personally think that a great deal of the problems in contemporary society is the result of the failure of a previous generation to recognise that male and female are distinct and separate and that they work in complementarity. They are equal yes, but that equality consists in differentiations of function and being that together form the sum whole of the human experience. One can simply equate male and female as being the equivalent to each other to the point that the duality of male in female is redefined merely to a question of "gender".
It's not what you think it means, if it does I'll say hello to Blessed Newman for you in Hell, now I think we both perfectly understand what is wrong with that...

Homoaffectiveness in this case would refer to basically the epitome of a platonic friendship between two people of the same gender. It is a spiritual union which would presumably beget fruits of the spirit (Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety and Fear of the Lord AKA Wonder and Awe). You see initially the Catholic Church allowed what we basically call common law marriage (I think it's called a de facto marriage in Australia). Later it decided against it in the Fourth Lateran Council. Of course what is problematic is that it said marriage and nothing about this type of relationship (which is most definitely not marriage since it fails several basic requirements) . It has never condemned what I was talking, which I believe in the Syriac Orthodox Church is called something like Adelphopoiesis. It's a term that that the crackpot queer historian with one hell of an agenda named John Boswell sadistically wrote a book warping the entire concept itself (a book worthy of Dan Brown even!) You can find the rebuttal to his book of filth here which also goes into exactly what it really is.



I'm aware that homosexual relationships are condemned, hence the use of "affectionate" rather than "romantic." Basically, I'm referring to a strong, exclusive and nonsexual relationship between two individuals of the same sex. I'm going by what I recall of civ king's posts, so if he wants to correct me, that's cool.

So are single people forbidden to adopt by the same logic?
I don't know if it is condemned, but it is indubitably not endorsed
Ah but would not a strong, affectionate and non-sexual relationship simply be a strong friendship and have nothing to do with homosexual inclinations?

As to exclusive, what do you mean by that?
Yes-but-no

Think an absolute and perfect love.

It's basically the love St. Augustine fantasized about, I don't remember which of his writings though (I've read several of his and much from other Catholic writers, I happen to be a fanboy of G. K. Chesterton)



PS How do you feel about me being homosexual?
 
Would you say that "orientation" while not being a choice, may be a cause of environmental conditions during child hood that enforced such an orientation?

I realize that many see this as a struggle, and the only thing to do is give into it. So in other words, I do not see it as being born with it like skin color or a left hand disposition, but as an inability to chose the environment one grows up in. I do not even see it as a behavioral flaw by choice, but not being able to come to an early rationalization will either see it as one that can be prevented, and it is, or a continued struggle and finally allowing societal acception to rationalize it as not abnormal.

IMO there can be early childhood experience that can lead to abnormal orientations that are not the one "normal" one. I think that is why the ideal upbringing is a father and a mother. I am not saying that any other equation would not be a loving upbringing from the adult perspective, but it lends confusion from the child's perspective. If society allows it abnormal will become a normal. In same sex, it is normal because it can be done between consenting adults. There are though, some orientations, that should never be normal, but in some socities these are not discriminated against either. I also believe that a person can live in a normal life pleasing to God even if their orientation is not the one God intended, as long as they realize that acting in selfishness and giving into the physical aspects of such, needs to be handed to God and placed in His Will. Jesus being the chief example: not my will, but Thine be done. Paul saw nothing wrong with carrying arround his cross daily, if it led others to Jesus Christ.
 
Homoaffectionate couples (at least if they are what I think you mean) are not allowed. Good and firm friendships between individuals of the same sex no matter their inclination are naturally permitted, but when that takes on an erotic dimension then that relationship is beginning to walk a very fine line. I would not think a relationship of the sort I think you mean would be looked on with favour even if it does not outright fall into the sin of homosexual acts.

Furthermore just to mention it, gay "marriage" and any sort of attempt make such a union equivakent to a married couple is reprehensible and condemned.

As to your actual question though, the answer is: NO

A child deserves the privelege of having a father and a mother. This is also vitally necessary as a child requires models of both femininity and masculinity in order to learn develop properly their own masculinity/feminity and to learn the proper manner of inter-relationships of those of the opposite sex. Without this, the child is ultimately deprived and one would be actually harming the child by raising it within a relationship structure that is incorrect.

Indeed I personally think that a great deal of the problems in contemprary society is the result of the failure of a previous generation to recognise that male and female are distinct and separate and that they work in complimentarity. They are equal yes, but that equality consists in differentiations of function and being that together form the sum whole of the human experience. One can simply equate male and female as being the equivalent to each other to the point that the duality of male in female is redefined merely to a question of "gender".

Just for the sake of argument, what if the choice is between being adopted by such a couple (Or even a real gay couple) or being left on the street?

I fully understand and agree that a kid would be best with a father and a mother, but it obviously isn't reality that every kid get that, otherwise they wouldn't be orphans.

So, barring that, I'm seeing a few different choices for a kid that won't be getting a home (Listed in random order to be sorted out later, and these options include options that are clearly sinful. This is only a list to sort of sort out the different options for a kid who won't be getting a father AND a mother.)

They could be raised by a gay couple (Sexual or non.)

They could be raised by a single parent.

They could be in and out of foster homes.

They could be left in an orphanage.

They could be raised by parents who are neglecting their kids (Which goes to show that a father and mother don't inherently make a family "Ideal" in any sense.)

Or even (Heaven forbid) they could be aborted and never get to be born at all.

While I'm no friend to the "Gay agenda" if a gay adoption needs to happen to stop a baby in the womb from being murdered, I'm all for it.

Even leaving the kid in an orphanage or in and out of foster homes doesn't seem as ideal to me.

While a gay couple isn't really a real couple (In my opinion, and I'm guessing the Vatican agrees with me) if the absolute worst thing you can say about a situation is they are being raised by two males or two females, that seems a better fate than most of the fates above (The single parent may or may not be better.)

Therefore, I do think that the post I quoted above is being very "Idealist." There are a LOT of problems in homes, and speaking for the child's growth alone, I'd consdier gay parents to be a somewhat minor issue, at least in comparison to being neglected, not having a consistent home at all (Foster homes) or (Heaven forbid) being murdered before ever seeing the world at all.

I do await a response to this, as I do think its a subject worth defining.

PS How do you feel about me being homosexual?

It doesn't change my opinion of you at all really. Homosexual incliations are a temptation, not necessarily a sin in themselves. And I don't necessarily see anything wrong or "Contradictory" about saying that homosexual acts are immoral, but you still struggle with the temptation. That's reality. We all have temptations, and most of us fall into them very regularly.

That said, I do question why you would want to "Identify" as gay. While there are a lot of people who struggle with homosexual attractions, most people who "Come-out" as gay are usually OK with the fact. You yourself do seem to be a bit confused about how to handle it.

I don't know what the Catholic side of Christianity has to say about it, but I do think that identifying as gay is the incorrect response, even if you intend to stay celibate. I don't think homosexual attractions are sinful, but its not something to embrace either. Its a temptation, every man has been tempted, even Christ himself. And if one should fall, that person should repent, and God is faithful to forgive.

And on that note, to add an actual question, rather than a comment, are a large portion of Catholic priests gay? I ask because priests have to be celibate, so since gay Catholics are expected to be celibate as well, celibacy wouldn't be an additional sacrifice for them, since they have to do it anyway.
 
Would you say that "orientation" while not being a choice, may be a cause of environmental conditions during child hood that enforced such an orientation?

I realize that many see this as a struggle, and the only thing to do is give into it. So in other words, I do not see it as being born with it like skin color or a left hand disposition, but as an inability to chose the environment one grows up in. I do not even see it as a behavioral flaw by choice, but not being able to come to an early rationalization will either see it as one that can be prevented, and it is, or a continued struggle and finally allowing societal acception to rationalize it as not abnormal.

IMO there can be early childhood experience that can lead to abnormal orientations that are not the one "normal" one. I think that is why the ideal upbringing is a father and a mother. I am not saying that any other equation would not be a loving upbringing from the adult perspective, but it lends confusion from the child's perspective. If society allows it abnormal will become a normal. In same sex, it is normal because it can be done between consenting adults. There are though, some orientations, that should never be normal, but in some socities these are not discriminated against either. I also believe that a person can live in a normal life pleasing to God even if their orientation is not the one God intended, as long as they realize that acting in selfishness and giving into the physical aspects of such, needs to be handed to God and placed in His Will. Jesus being the chief example: not my will, but Thine be done. Paul saw nothing wrong with carrying arround his cross daily, if it led others to Jesus Christ.

I'm clearly a homosexual as a result of my father buying me a pink iPod Shuffle. No not really.

There could be several causes and this hypothetically could be a cause, but I don't think so.

Why this thread?
 
Come on, Domination. As you like to point out in similar threads, this is "Ask a Catholic", not "give Catholics a lot of your own opinions".
 
@Arakhor- I was asking questions about the answer. That has been acceptable in all such threads.

There is a point where it can be taken too far, but that's for either the people running the "Ask a... thread" (In this case, for one of the Catholics who have been answering questions) or the moderators to say. Not you. Stop trying to moderate.
 
I'm clearly a homosexual as a result of my father buying me a pink iPod Shuffle. No not really.

There could be several causes and this hypothetically could be a cause, but I don't think so.

Why this thread?

I chose this thread to see the Catholic response. I did not use the other thread because I do not endorse it, you answer here, and that thread is your thread. You can use the points there, but I will not respond there. I cannot condemn nor support your decision. I do respect your willingness to talk about it, and I do understand your struggle. I am not perfect and have my own battles.

Come on, Domination. As you like to point out in similar threads, this is "Ask a Catholic", not "give Catholics a lot of your own opinions".

@Arakhor- I was asking questions about the answer. That has been acceptable in all such threads.

There is a point where it can be taken too far, but that's for either the people running the "Ask a... thread" (In this case, for one of the Catholics who have been answering questions) or the moderators to say. Not you. Stop trying to moderate.

Do you two realize that the way both of you post or any of us post, is why one's post are read, or ignored? BTW I look forward to all post by either of you.;)
 
Spoiler :
Just for the sake of argument, what if the choice is between being adopted by such a couple (Or even a real gay couple) or being left on the street?

I fully understand and agree that a kid would be best with a father and a mother, but it obviously isn't reality that every kid get that, otherwise they wouldn't be orphans.

So, barring that, I'm seeing a few different choices for a kid that won't be getting a home (Listed in random order to be sorted out later, and these options include options that are clearly sinful. This is only a list to sort of sort out the different options for a kid who won't be getting a father AND a mother.)

They could be raised by a gay couple (Sexual or non.)

They could be raised by a single parent.

They could be in and out of foster homes.

They could be left in an orphanage.

They could be raised by parents who are neglecting their kids (Which goes to show that a father and mother don't inherently make a family "Ideal" in any sense.)

Or even (Heaven forbid) they could be aborted and never get to be born at all.

While I'm no friend to the "Gay agenda" if a gay adoption needs to happen to stop a baby in the womb from being murdered, I'm all for it.

Even leaving the kid in an orphanage or in and out of foster homes doesn't seem as ideal to me.

While a gay couple isn't really a real couple (In my opinion, and I'm guessing the Vatican agrees with me) if the absolute worst thing you can say about a situation is they are being raised by two males or two females, that seems a better fate than most of the fates above (The single parent may or may not be better.)

Therefore, I do think that the post I quoted above is being very "Idealist." There are a LOT of problems in homes, and speaking for the child's growth alone, I'd consdier gay parents to be a somewhat minor issue, at least in comparison to being neglected, not having a consistent home at all (Foster homes) or (Heaven forbid) being murdered before ever seeing the world at all.

I do await a response to this, as I do think its a subject worth defining.

It doesn't change my opinion of you at all really. Homosexual incliations are a temptation, not necessarily a sin in themselves. And I don't necessarily see anything wrong or "Contradictory" about saying that homosexual acts are immoral, but you still struggle with the temptation. That's reality. We all have temptations, and most of us fall into them very regularly.

That said, I do question why you would want to "Identify" as gay. While there are a lot of people who struggle with homosexual attractions, most people who "Come-out" as gay are usually OK with the fact. You yourself do seem to be a bit confused about how to handle it.

I don't know what the Catholic side of Christianity has to say about it, but I do think that identifying as gay is the incorrect response, even if you intend to stay celibate. I don't think homosexual attractions are sinful, but its not something to embrace either. Its a temptation, every man has been tempted, even Christ himself. And if one should fall, that person should repent, and God is faithful to forgive.

And on that note, to add an actual question, rather than a comment, are a large portion of Catholic priests gay? I ask because priests have to be celibate, so since gay Catholics are expected to be celibate as well, celibacy wouldn't be an additional sacrifice for them, since they have to do it anyway.
Sorry, the teachings of the Catholic Church are the teachings of the Catholic Church. They are not negotiable.

Why would I "identify" as gay? Actually I feel that identifying as gay is exactly the correct solution. Y'see what most people don't realize is that I'm pretty dumb, I would sacrifice my happiness for others. I'm also unyielding as you probably know. Currently Catholics who realize they are gay wind up with the dichotomy of the gay lifestyle and "happiness" now, or stay Catholic and live a lonely and miserable life. If I live my life as a paragon of virtue and I find love I can show others there is a better way. I'm picking up a heavier cross so I can reduce the burden on others.

I doubt that the percentage of priests who are gay is substantially larger than the background rate.


Come on, Domination. As you like to point out in similar threads, this is "Ask a Catholic", not "give Catholics a lot of your own opinions".
Hey I'm supposed to lecture him on that
@Arakhor- I was asking questions about the answer. That has been acceptable in all such threads.

There is a point where it can be taken too far, but that's for either the people running the "Ask a... thread" (In this case, for one of the Catholics who have been answering questions) or the moderators to say. Not you. Stop trying to moderate.
he does sort of have a point, but it was okay to answer the PS.
 
I'd like to point out that forgiveness and repentance are major themes in the Catholic Church.

This is something that I am having difficulty to grasp. Especially since I see god as a bitter man who hates me and gets his jollies making my life miserable and never answer my prayers.
 
Yes-but-no

Think an absolute and perfect love.

It's basically the love St. Augustine fantasized about, I don't remember which of his writings though (I've read several of his and much from other Catholic writers, I happen to be a fanboy of G. K. Chesterton)

hmmm, I think that if you are associating this adelphic love with homosexual inclinations you are looking at it from a slightly off perspective. I do not think that this requires or has anything to do with homosexual inclinations which are as the Church teaches, disordered desires that must be controlled but which are not sinful in and of themselves.

Either way though, I will naturally be praying for you that you can bear the cross and proceed forward on the path of increasing conversion and sanctification to Christ.

This is something that I am having difficulty to grasp. Especially since I see god as a bitter man who hates me and gets his jollies making my life miserable and never answer my prayers.

God answers your prayers, Its just not in an automatic yes, or always in the precise manner you expect. As to your perception of God, I can say God is as he is, not how we think he should be. Ultimately though that is all I will say since your relationship with God is something you yourself must deal with and work out.
 
hmmm, I think that if you are associating this adelphic love with homosexual inclinations you are looking at it from a slightly off perspective. I do not think that this requires or has anything to do with homosexual inclinations which are as the Church teaches, disordered desires that must be controlled but which are not sinful in and of themselves.

Either way though, I will naturally be praying for you that you can bear the cross and proceed forward on the path of increasing conversion and sanctification to Christ.



God answers your prayers, Its just not in an automatic yes, or always in the precise manner you expect. As to your perception of God, I can say God is as he is, not how we think he should be. Ultimately though that is all I will say since your relationship with God is something you yourself must deal with and work out.
It's matter of perspective. Imagine you have a scene, the Church and I both look at it. I see from ten feet away, the Church sees it from thirty. We are both looking at the same scene, with the same details, but due to the differences in distance I can see nuances that they can not. The Church's perspective isn't wrong, but it is missing the very subtle details that slightly change the meaning.

I hope it makes sense.
 
This is something that I am having difficulty to grasp. Especially since I see god as a bitter man who hates me and gets his jollies making my life miserable and never answer my prayers.
Hates you?

Deus caritas est…
 
Hates you?

Deus caritas est…
Gloria in excelsis Deo!



Okay, let me try again at an explanation.

In what I have been attempting to talk about agape love radiates from the Holy Spirit to the couple who exchange love primarily as agape love and also as philia. This is as opposed to friends who exchange love as philia and a married couple who exchange it as eros and agape love.
 
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