Ask a Christian

[El_Machinae]

I never said that He will refrain from doing miracles if there are cameras.

I think that it's pretty clear that He will refrain, though. We know this due to the lack of documentable miracles.

Secondly, I do think that God would take objection if we were to make a spectacle/show out of it. Inviting journalists and cameras to come see the miracle healing would perhaps be offensive to God because we would essentially be treating Him as though He were a puppet to do our bidding.

I've seen the 'miracles' with the cameras and the audiences. I've been to healing revivals. I've seen the hosts of people with their symptoms that are easily handled with adrenaline & endorphins. Of course, I've never seen a miracle that was the least bit believable as a 'miracle'. But that's beside the point. I'm not asking for a camera to be rolling at the time. I'm not asking for a spectacle: I know enough theology that God only jumps through hoops in the Bible.

A amputee will be vigorously documented by the medical services during the course of his treatment. The M*A*S*H* will have records. The local hospital will have records. The homeside hospital will have records.

There's no need for a 'spectacle' in the healing. If a vet amputee had his limb regrown, it's going to be provable. But none of them are going to be, ever, as a result of a miracle. When medicine does it, you'll easily have sufficient evidence to believe that it actually happened.

Keep in mind, when I first brought up the amputee criteria, you thought it should be fairly easy to find an example, that it actually happened.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Why does God allow evil in the world ?


( Sounds like a simple question but every answer one can give to this question will only lead to more questions.).

My current opinion on this, which has changed twice already as I have reconsidered my position, is that God is not omnipotent.

 

[El_Machinae]

When I first came to CFC, you wanted to chat about the problem of evil!

 

[classical_hero]

The question remains: how do we know when God answers our prayers and actively provides us with our request, and when God decides to say no to that certain prayer, but circumstance and coincidence leads to it being fulfilled, or some alternate situation happening that can seem like God answered our prayers?

It is real hard to give you a definite answer since each time the way of know is different. Some times yo will get an answer straight away that it has been answered, but other times you will have to do some looking to see if it has been answered in the affirmative. It time will depend on what has been asked for and sometimes it means that the person praying needs to change some things in his life before the prayer will be answered. Then some times it will be many years in the future that your prayer has been answered and often you will not even know about it.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

@El_M:
I'm still willing to chat about it, it's just that I've seen so many facets of the issue since then that the question has begun to turn into "pick a set of assumptions and I'll give you an answer" when I think about it.

 

[classical_hero]

Why does God allow evil in the world ?


( Sounds like a simple question but every answer one can give to this question will only lead to more questions.).

How will you know what is evil if you are not shown examples of it?

My current opinion on this, which has changed twice already as I have reconsidered my position, is that God is not omnipotent.

You are forgetting that God is omniscient, so that he knows when to show his power and when not to. God has already given us all that we need to know about him.
Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

In this story, not a parable, since we actually have a person name in it, which no other parable ever does do, we have a a rich guy and Lazarus who both die. The rich guy notices that he is in terrible pain since he is now in Hades. He wanted to stop the rest of his family to suffer the same fate, so he wanted God to use his power to raise someone from the dead. I am sure that most people would be amased at that sight and realise that it a powerful event, but the passage shows that God's power is not enough since all it will do is make people be in awe of him and not the ultimate purpose of the Bible and to trust in him. The Bible is the manifestation of God's power on earth. If people do not want to hear that, then no showing on God's power will suffice. IT is not about stopping evil right now that is what God is worried about. Having evil on earth right now shows us what condition we really are in and that is what he wants us to admit, that we ar vile and that he is the only one for us. Now that is the real manifestation of God's power, changing someone's life. There is no greater power than God forgiving someone of their sins or from their evil.

How else can God show his love if we were not first opposed to him. Their is not greater love than someone who dies for someone who is actually opposed to them. We would be willing to die for those we already love, but to die for someone who is oppsed to us is farr beyond what any human is willing to do, and yet that is what God did for us.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[El_Machinae]

God isn't powerful enough to show that we are vile, without allowing evil to exist?

 

[classical_hero]

Tell me of evil without giving me any examples of evil.

EDIT. How do we even know what is evil? This implies a standard. So what standard do you say to what is evil and what is not evil? Is something evil just because it has harmful effects? Can something be evil and not cause any damage at all?

 

[Sidhe]

Sidhe, the problem isn't that there is frank and open discussion, the problem is that you are trying to give answers to what Christians believe. In all the other threads, those who are described by the OP are considered to have better answers than those who aren't, and you won't generally see long discussions about Iran between two Canadians in the Ask a Persian thread.

I've answered questions on almost all ask a whatever threads. And nobody complains. However in the religion thread about Christian's the rules all change (whilst it's ok to talk about Buddhist beliefs if you know anything about it, or Hindu or whatever; Christianity is out of bounds, it is special, only those who believe can post, even those who happen to know a deal about the religion are not allowed unless they believe) there seems to be some idea, definitely sparked by people who don't want there beliefs questioned, who aren't receptive of discussion and who think that someone who has a good working knowledge - if not a great one - then his views are redundant because he is not a Christian.

I've got no time for this double standard, if someone knows about the subject or can talk about the subject, then there is no reason they can't post about it as far as I can see, provided it's not spam or trolling. Which lets face it after my thread about propaganda is any Christian on this forum and everything that doesn't agree with their beliefs is trolling. That was an open honest debate that they tried to ruin with petulant bickering about definitions. I have no time for that sort of childish . .. .. .. .. .ing about etymology, especially when I make it clear half a dozen times about context. These people are not special, their religion is not above the rules, and peoples opinions are not subject to the whims of the over sensitive few.

 

[puglover]

Why does God allow evil in the world ?

To create the best possible end result for the universe.

We allow fire to burn the dross from gold, we use a knife to tear the skin from a fruit, so why couldn't God allow evil to strengthen the good that is in the world?

 

[El_Machinae]

God isn't powerful enough to create the strongest good without allowing evil?

 

[GenMarshall]

As I said if you don't want free and open discussion go join a forum where you don't have to be subjected to diverse opinions. Otherwise I am going to give my opinion if I think it's relevant whether I am a Christian or not.

Where did I say I don't want free and open discussion? No where in my posts did I stated that I don't want free and open discussions of my faith.

Just as people do on all the other ask threads, you have no right to special treatment, just because your massively over sensitive about your religion, and don't care for open discussion.

I am not claiming special rights and treatments. For god sakes take off your aluminum foil hat. I simply stated that Christians, being the more experienced in this subject should be the ones answering the questions. Quit blowing things out of proportion .

Now if you could kindly stop giving yourself and this thread heirs and graces, it's no different from any other thread of this type. Or we could go through every ask a thread and delete all the opinions given by non title participants, so that all the threads contain only what you want them to contain, thus robbing a thread of any longevity and or interest to anyone.

"Kindly stop giving..", you sound as arrogant as Curt .

Excuse me, but I am nether giving myself nor this thread heirs and graces. The problem is that YOU are trying to give answers to what Christians believe. It's like an auto mechanic trying to answer questions that is presented to a doctor.

Let's reiterate though for the hard of thinking. I don't care about what you think the rules of discussion should be, only about what they are.

Actualy, when the OP of this thread stated that this thread is for Christians answering questions from Non-Christians. Then you should care about what others think the rules of discussion should be. Just to avoid stepping on other people's toes.

The point is, Christians are considered, in this thread, to have better answers than thoes who are Non-Christians. You can comment and give your opinions as well as offer follow up questions.

Sidhe, the problem isn't that there is frank and open discussion, the problem is that you are trying to give answers to what Christians believe. In all the other threads, those who are described by the OP are considered to have better answers than those who aren't, and you won't generally see long discussions about Iran between two Canadians in the Ask a Persian thread.

Exactly and QFT

The question remains: how do we know when God answers our prayers and actively provides us with our request, and when God decides to say no to that certain prayer, but circumstance and coincidence leads to it being fulfilled, or some alternate situation happening that can seem like God answered our prayers?

To be honest, I do not know if God answers our prayers. For years I have praying to God for a girlfriend and a better job and nothing has happened.

 

[Elrohir]

God isn't powerful enough to create the strongest good without allowing evil?

Without the possibility of evil, free will cannot exist. Without that free will, we cannot truly be or become the children of God, or achieve our full potential. A world where evil and death exist, but are conquered by Christ, and where God's children are reunited with him is preferable to a world where there is no evil, but none of us, either.

As for whether God is ominpotent or not, I take Thomas Aquinas' side in this one. (Hat tip to Plotinus for the quote) Aquinas manages to say what I had already realized better than I could, and a eight hundred years ahead of me, too.

All confess that God is omnipotent; but it seems difficult to explain in what His omnipotence precisely consists: for there may be doubt as to the precise meaning of the word 'all' when we say that God can do all things. If, however, we consider the matter aright, since power is said in reference to possible things, this phrase, "God can do all things," is rightly understood to mean that God can do all things that are possible; and for this reason He is said to be omnipotent... that which implies being and non-being at the same time is repugnant to the idea of an absolutely possible thing, within the scope of the divine omnipotence. For such cannot come under the divine omnipotence, not because of any defect in the power of God, but because it has not the nature of a feasible or possible thing. Therefore, everything that does not imply a contradiction in terms, is numbered amongst those possible things, in respect of which God is called omnipotent: whereas whatever implies contradiction does not come within the scope of divine omnipotence, because it cannot have the aspect of possibility. Hence it is better to say that such things cannot be done, than that God cannot do them.
-Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

 

[El_Machinae]

Free will requires the possibility of evil (sure, if you want to include it as a tautalogical definition). It certainly doesn't require the presence of evil.

 

[Sidhe]

Civ this is the only thread where people are picked up for answering questions where they are not in the title. Why should this thread be different from any of the others? It's a simple question and one you failed to answer. Why is ask a Christian given special favours, why is someone who knows something about religion but is not a Christian banned? Is it more to do with the fact you don't like my answers and less to do with the "rules".

If you don't like the rules of this forum then complain that I am answering questions, I can't see how I shouldn't as it's not like any of the other ask threads get this sort of criticism to non x? I could demonstrate if you like by posting on any of the other religion threads, about things I know something about, but it would be wasted as you'd probably hire someone to object just to make a hypocritical case. The fact is you think you are special, you think only people who believe should post, but this is not how it works nor has it ever been how it works in an ask a whatever thread. This is a forum, provided people don't break forum rules, you can't dictate new ones, it simply makes a mockery of what a forum is about.

 

[Elrohir]

Free will requires the possibility of evil (sure, if you want to include it as a tautalogical definition). It certainly doesn't require the presence of evil.

The probability of any human being I've ever met living a life complete devoid of evil acts or thoughts is 0. So while you can, in theory, say that people could live their lives with free will and only make good choices, in practice, that's not true. At least, not all the time. I think you're making a distinction without a substantive difference, here.

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm not implying that the real world was evidence for the Christian God!

The logic of my statement stands, when discussing decently-powerful and wise Creators. An omnipotent God needn't have the presence of evil while creating free will, merely the possibility for evil.

 

[Elrohir]

I'm not implying that the real world was evidence for the Christian God!

The logic of my statement stands, when discussing decently-powerful and wise Creators. An omnipotent God needn't have the presence of evil while creating free will, merely the possibility for evil.

But that possibility has resulted in evil....

Could you spell out exactly what your point is? I'm a little slow today.

 

[GenMarshall]

It's a simple question and one you failed to answer.

None of the Christians failed to answer. There are things that would apply to one Denomination and not apply to another. Case in point, if there was a question in regards to the meaning of communion, you will get a different answer from each person because a) they are from one denomination (example Catholics believe in Transubstantiation where Protestants don't) and b) different individual interperatation.

Why is ask a Christian given special favours, why is someone who knows something about religion but is not a Christian banned?

Christians are more qualified to answer these questions than Non-Christians, regardless if they know something about religion. If there was an "Ask a Japanese Person" thread, it would not be right for me to answer questions there even though I know about Japanese Culture and Languages because I am not of Japanese Ethnacy.

Is it more to do with the fact you don't like my answers and less to do with the "rules".

Utterly false. Quit jumping to conclusion once in your life .

The fact is you think you are special, you think only people who believe should post, but this is not how it works nor has it ever been how it works in an ask a whatever thread. This is a forum, provided people don't break forum rules, you can't dictate new ones, it simply makes a mockery of what a forum is about.

You don't get it do you? I said that Christians hold more experience and qualification to answer questions that are presented to them. I did not state "NO NON-CHRISTIANS ALLOWED" that you assume.

 

[Phlegmak]

Excuse me, but I am nether giving myself nor this thread heirs and graces. The problem is that YOU are trying to give answers to what Christians believe. It's like an auto mechanic trying to answer questions that is presented to a doctor.

An auto-mechanic is perfectly capable of making statements regarding medicine. I'm a programmer and I can talk to you about sociology, religion, or any other subject I have knowledge of.