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Honestly, I never said that sort of prayer.

I dont know if that would help my spiritual alements nor would Christ help a very troubled and angry spirit.


Dear heart, God ONLY helps sinners. (those with troubled and angry spirits)!
Mark 2:

While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

See that? Jesus said, "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
 
I think it should be taken in context: all of the demons that are cast out during the gospels are of the ... extreme variety.

Regardless, I have been assured, repeatedly by people of faith, that some of my clients (for lack of a better word) were 'demon possessed'. I suspect that many faithful who believe in demons would 'observe' a few in most mental hospitals. I've been rather unimpressed by the results of 'prayer teams', 'intercessions', and 'exorcisms'; despite their confidence and (putative) faith.

Enough faith to 'diagnose' a demon, but insufficient faith to 'defeat' the demon. All the while assuming enough faith to make it to Heaven. I find it amusing.

But this is off-topic: I'd prefer people not respond to this in lieu of my more sincere question

Demon influence or possession happens with an invitation. It is usually because that person is involved in the occult and they have a relationship with an entity they consider their "higher self" or the "spirit of their grandmother" or "alien" or something like that.

If that person is truly unwilling to give up this familiar, then they cannot be exorcised. It is free will again. It is not a matter of defeat, it is a matter of choice for an individual.
 
Honestly, I never said that sort of prayer.

I dont know if that would help my spiritual alements nor would Christ help a very troubled and angry spirit.

Actually I would very much encourage you to profess your faith and ask forgiveness of your sins. Because the Bible tells us to (in Romans) to profess our faith in Christ, and Jesus tells us to repent and ask forgiveness.
 
No they don't. Most evangelicals that I know embrace 'once saved, always saved' wholeheartedly.

All Protestants do.

Martin Luther was well acquainted with the scholastic theology of his day, but he made the study of the Bible, especially the epistles of Saint Paul, the center of his work. Luther found that his teachings diverged increasingly from the traditional beliefs of the Roman church.

His studies had led him to the conclusion that Christ was the sole mediator between God and man and that forgiveness of sin and salvation are effected by God's Grace alone and are received by faith alone on the part of man.

This point of view turned him against scholastic theology, which had emphasized man's role in his own salvation, and against many church practices that emphasized justification by good works.

His approach to theology soon led to a clash between Luther and church officials, precipitating the dramatic events of the Reformation.

The act of salvation is effected through an act of grace (unmerited favor) on the part of God, and faith alone on the part of man.
 
Heaven is the state of being with God. It's not a physical place.

Not according to Ezekiel 28:14. Mountains and coals are physical objects.

"You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones."

Isaiah 14:12-14 adds that there are clouds and stars in Heaven, plus thrones; again, these are physical objects.

12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
 
Honestly, I never said that sort of prayer.

I dont know if that would help my spiritual alements nor would Christ help a very troubled and angry spirit.

I don't. One can lose ones faith and thus fall out of ones salvation.


You know, I meant in the beginning of the Protestant movement. Churches have pulled away from it these days, I suppose, but in the beginning, the reason for the "Protestant Movement" was primarily the fact that the Catholic Church was telling people that they needed to do things in addition to believing in Jesus Christ's vicarious atonement on the cross, and justification by faith.
 
I don't think I do that. I have always had my prayers answered about events. I don't pray for things unless I know it is God's will. Then I do so.
I have trouble believing that all events that you pray to occur, then occur (unless, of course, you've wisely stopped actually praying for unlikely/impossible events to occur). But, regardless, I think it's fair to say that the majority of Christians don't have their prayers (for events) answered or fulfilled. So, the question is more directed to them.

*keep in mind that the atheist has an easy and obvious answer: no one has 'enough' faith to walk on water, heal amputees, move mountains, or curse fig trees because there is no God to answer prayers and that reality does not respond to faith at the levels described. Faith's value is its ability to inspire willpower, and its downside is that people assume that statistically likely events are affected by faith

Is there anything worse than murdering Chrisitans for because of their faith? Paul did that.

Well, my knee-jerk response would be to state that murdering non-Christians for their faith is worse, if we assume that the Christian world-view is correct. I'd think that would be obvious. To any believer, the death of a Christian is not nearly the tragedy than the alternate.
 
Hehe. Have you seen their temple in Haifa? Stunning. Cost like a gizillion dollars to make it too.

Indeed religous buildings are inspring: but imagine a culture where you are literaly subsiding, and any adversity could mean that you starve or survive? Now imagine that culture dragging stones a hundred miles with wooden rollers then across a 60 mile stretch of water, then across 60 more miles, to build an homage to the cyclic nature of the sun, for no other reason than the fact that religous people said they should. Power of cohesive religion.
 
CivGeneral, please take a moment and go here:

http://billygraham.com/SH_StepsToPeace.asp
I have looked at that. I have accepted that I am powerless on my own to help me off my feet. I have honestly and truthfuly brought Jesus into my heart. I acknowlage that I am a sinner and have truly and honestly accepted him as my lord and savior. However I am going to have to wait untill I make my first confession to truly repent all of my sins I have comitted since baptism (I am a Roman Catholic and I believe that my priest as "in persona Christi" can absolve my sins).
 
Indeed religous buildings are inspring: but imagine a culture where you are literaly subsiding, and any adversity could mean that you starve or survive? Now imagine that culture dragging stones a hundred miles with wooden rollers then across a 60 mile stretch of water, then across 60 more miles, to build an homage to the cyclic nature of the sun, for no other reason than the fact that religous people said they should. Power of cohesive religion.

And imagine that that structure inspires in you and your fellows the cohesion needed to survive.

Humans are amazing things; I am reading a book that suggests that a particular hilltop temple in Asia Minor may have been the spark that started wheat cultivation.
 
And imagine that that structure inspires in you and your fellows the cohesion needed to survive.

Humans are amazing things; I am reading a book that suggests that a particular hilltop temple in Asia Minor may have been the spark that started wheat cultivation.

You've got it and religion isn't an evolutionary advantage, I think not.

Look at wheat, you eat it it makes you sick, you pound it to a pulp and mix it with water it tastes like crap and it makes you sick. you leave it for a while after putting it in water and then bake it it works? Now this is trial and error of the finest order. Probablly inspired by a person who thought that all that grass should be used for something other than thatch. Basically leaders who inspired radical thought, mostly by religion in early societies, but later by having a way of original thought.
 
Of the Christians here who read the 'hard to interpret' Scriptures (where the 'actual meaning' is not the same as the 'natural reading'), who believes that a major component of correctly interpreting these Scripture involves prayer?

In other words, who believes that faithful/sincere prayer adds insight into correctly understanding Scripture?
Well, it couldn't hurt. I wouldn't leave it at prayer and avoid studying the relevant passages, asking learned people etc...I would do all of the above.
As for the actual/natural meaning. I think Katheryn explained it pretty well. Sometimes when I read the Bible it "speaks to me" meaning I feel like it directly relates to me and gives me knowledge/wisdom or PRAYER ANSWER. The meaning I draw from it that I apply to my life can be one thing, whereas the actual reading is about Israel or the measurements of the temple or something else.
Actual meaning = Literally what the Bible is talking about
Natural Meaning = What I glean from the reading. Or even prayer that I feel is answered. What the Bible communicates to me.

As well, what is your theory as to why two Christians can pray for insight with regards to Scripture and receive directly-conflicting answers?
Either one or both of them is just going by their feelings and saying "its God" because they have learned that when they pray and feel something, it means that God told them that. They even say "God told me today". I did a DTS (Discipleship Training School). You'll find fundamentalist/extreme Christians there, who really wish to improve their faith, relationship with God, and do something good in the world. They are 99% of the time evangelical, conservative Christians, very few (if any) liberal Christians there. They're great, BUT what always pissed me off is how light they would use the words "God told me" as if He literally spoke to them. And they were very spiritual, but often I found that spirituality to only mean that they were very emotional, and read every emotion as being from God.
The point I'm making is, some people say stuff is from God when it is all coming from their own feelings, and their own mind.
Edit: But even though they were a bit too emotional, at least they were trying to do something for God and their fellow man, and learn more about God. I rarely see this with liberal Christians, I often find them to be lukewarm and not living the faith at all.

If your opinion on any reading is in the minority, why do you assume that your opinion is correct?
I can't think of one instance where my opinion is not in jive with mainstream Christianity. But if it was, I would assume my position was correct because mine made sense and theirs didn't.
 
Indeed religous buildings are inspring: but imagine a culture where you are literaly subsiding, and any adversity could mean that you starve or survive? Now imagine that culture dragging stones a hundred miles with wooden rollers then across a 60 mile stretch of water, then across 60 more miles, to build an homage to the cyclic nature of the sun, for no other reason than the fact that religous people said they should. Power of cohesive religion.

Yep. However I doubt that is the case with the Bahai faith. They have alot of rich westerners sponsering everything, alot of hollywood names. Its a hippy faith, so its big with the showbiz crowd.
 
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