Ask a Mormon, Part 3

[Eran of Arcadia]

Hmm doesn't it seem strange that God would mostly want to send his messages through people from Utah, though?

I mean, I've got nothing against Utah, but why wouldn't God want to select prophets from various parts of the Earth, so that his message is better received?

Does your dogma somehow explain this?

Sure, by saying that it's not where they are from that determines how good a job they will do, as they are both chosen and guided by God. Thus it is only demographic reasons that cause so many of the highest ranks of Church leadership to be American (even the Quorums of the Seventy - the next level after the Twelve - has a much greater mix of ethnicity) and additionally, the way I see it, it is possible that those from areas of the Church that are not as solidly established need local leaders from there.

 

[m4gill4]

Hello again, Aran.

In my youth, I acquired a great many misconceptions about LDSs (plural?). I was instilled with the common prejudice that Mormonism is a strange and backwards offshoot of Christianity.

When I got older and moved west, I met my first Mormon. He was young, highly intelligent, tolerant, and well-adjusted. He was perfectly at ease with the fact that outsiders thought his religion strange, and admitted himself that the whole story looks pretty unbelievable, yet this did not cause him to doubt his belief. I was very impressed with this person, who was my friend until I moved away, and I assumed it was a fluke until I met my next Mormon, and the one after that, and found that the trend continued.

Not knowing much about the actual lifestyle of the LDS, I thought I saw a contradiction: a devout group who base their beliefs on something many of them freely admit is hard to swallow, yet also a lifestyle/system of beliefs which seems to produce intelligent, tolerant, often quite liberal people (at least in my experience), and happy stable families.

Devout Baptists and other "traditional" Christian fundamentalists seem to me to be the opposite of this, rigid, inflexible, intolerant, narrow-minded, always declaring war on things.

Can you explain what it is about Mormonism which seems to buck the trend? Did I just happen to meet a few people who were the exceptions rather than the rule? Is there something about a Mormon upbringing which emphasizes these values?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Hard to say, really. We are big believers in free agency - we have a pretty strict moral code, but it is largely up to each member to follow it for him or her self. We also have a pretty broad view of who is going to be saved, which means that important as it is to do the right thing, a lot of the people we know who aren't LDS are just as likely to be saved as any of us. Also, I think being in the minority almost everywhere helps - I think some people are a little more, uptight I guess, in Utah, but everywhere else we are so small that it doesn't go to our head.

 

[m4gill4]

So Mormons believe even non-Mormons can go to heaven? I think this makes them quite unique among all Judeo-Christian religions/sects. Most Christians and Muslims believe union with God impossible for those who have not been baptized/saved/converted. Not as familiar with Judaism, but I thought I remembered something about an exclusive "book of life".

One of my earliest problems with Christianity in general was the cliche of "what about the aborigines who never had a chance to hear of Jesus?". I never got a satisfactory answer to this. If Mormons have a loophole for those people, then they are uber-cool, and their founders quite forward-thinking.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It's not quite a loophole - we still say they have to accept Christ and be baptized, just that they can do it in the next life as well as this one.

(I am not sure about Jews or Muslims, but it is my understanding that at least some sects of both believe that salvation doesn't depend on belonging to that religion. I do know some Muslims say this.)

 

[m4gill4]

Accept Jesus in the next life? Does that mean reincarnation, or does that mean a sort of post-mortem but pre-heaven opportunity to learn about Jesus? This is an interesting aspect of Mormonism that I was unaware of.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yeah, between death and resurrection/final judgment.

 

[m4gill4]

That seems to be quite reasonable. I wonder why other versions of Christianity chose not to offer the "heathens" such an opportunity.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I actually wrote a paper on this in a theology class in college (I went to Notre Dame, hence the class) and the discovery of the New World presented a major theological problem, given so many people who didn't (unlike the pagans of Europe or the Jews and Muslims of Asia) have even the chance to hear about Christianity. Within Christianity every possible view on the matter can be found - not all say that non-Christians will be damned - but no one has such a large body of doctrine on the matter.

 

[m4gill4]

My suspicion is that the Catholic church would have had a more difficult time converting the natives without a sense of urgency that Jesus had to be accepted before death in order to prevent eternal perdition. The (rather draconian) early protestants also used this doctrine to their advantage. It is to the credit of the Mormon church that they do not rely on this seemingly unfair belief in order to scare people into converting.

 

[warpus]

Sure, by saying that it's not where they are from that determines how good a job they will do, as they are both chosen and guided by God.

What makes Utah, and especially Salt Lake City so special though?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What makes Utah, and especially Salt Lake City so special though?

There are a lot of members there. And there are a lot of members who have both the age and the years in the church. And there is a high enough density, so that leaders aren't needed as much at the lower organizational levels.

 

[LightFang]

I just wanted to pop into here and thank you, Eran of Arcadia, for that awesome chick tract. It made me laugh.

Keep on stormin', Mormon! I know a guy who's Mormon. He's second chair trumpet. None of us had any idea that he was Mormon.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I just wanted to pop into here and thank you, Eran of Arcadia, for that awesome chick tract. It made me laugh.

Which one? The Mormon one or the one in my sig? Either way, the guy is a classic.

Keep on stormin', Mormon! I know a guy who's Mormon. He's second chair trumpet. None of us had any idea that he was Mormon.

We often disguise ourselves as second chair trumpets . . .

Although, since the density of Mormons varies from state to state, depending on where you live you may know more.

 

[Ansar]

What kind of places do Mormons go to pray?

LDS churches?

 

[downtown]

I pray in my apartment! You can pray anywhere!

 

[m4gill4]

How old do Mormons believe the earth is?

edit: my tongue is in my cheek...

 

[El_Machinae]

How old do Mormons believe the earth is?

edit: my tongue is in my cheek...

The ones who came to my door were 6000 YECs.
Though in the 1930s, the Mormon leadership cleverly sidestepped the issue

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Actually, the Church has no official position. I have met YECs, OECs, and of course I and a lot of others are strict evolutionists (inasmuch as that word has any meaning in this context). I think that BYU, the Church-run university, teaches off-the-shelf evolution, and at Notre Dame there is an LDS paleontology professor who teaches, I assume, what Notre Dame does (evolution). I don't know to what El_Mac refers, I do know that in the 1910's the Church released a statement to the effect that we don't believe that humans are the result merely of evolutionary processes; apparently, they later followed it up clarifying that all we meant was that humans are created in God's image, not just a historical accident, which makes it still more or less consistent with evolution.

 

[CartesianFart]

If I would bomb all the inhabitants of Utah into complete rubble, would the mighty Mormon people elsewhere rally for a holy "Mormon Jihad?"