Ask A Protestant Christian II

[timtofly]

Have you seen "The Life of Brian" (it's a movie)? If you have, what was your reaction? Did you think it was good?

Do you have a list of "no go" movies that you or your community decide shouldn't be supported or watched? Movies with anti-religious or blasphemous themes like "The Invention of Lying?"

Or can you appreciate comedy even when it is lampooning your beliefs?

No. I have only seen one monty that I can think of.

There are lists of "family friendly" movies out there. Personlly, I think movies that are satirical are ok, movies that ridicule are just a waste of time though.

Lampooning anything constantly can loose it's effect, but comedy comes and goes. Constant bashing though get's old.

I think that if moral people give up on culture it would degenerate to the point no one would be interested in it. Coming up with new and interesting subjects is hard, but it also will draw more crowds than the status quo.

 

[Behind The Mask]

God didn't "Change his mind" but the law was only supposed to last until Jesus came from the beginning, though at the time Israel did not know this.

Then in that same context how can anyone be so absolute in following the bible so literally? Should the followers then not maintain a more open mind and consider what they do not know and what may be?

I only say this because so many seem so absolute in their drive to follow the bible, and the word of god, to the letter yet refuse or even consider that that may not even consider their own inaccuracy, meaning those who follow it closest may be the furthest from the truth.

If such things could have changed then, what keeps some revelation some further enlightening us; why should so many cling so tightly to something that may change, specifically the decree of god.

 

[kochman]

Actually, the Bible literally doesn't teach any age of the Earth, but it would have to be young since (As you say, unless its symbolic) humans existed from Day 6.

It gives 6 days, and the exact family with all the years they lived up to Jesus, from which we have a record. It is pretty exact.

I do wonder why "It was evening, and it was morning" then however.

Symbolism. You know, like "Dawn of a new age"...

Well, perhaps writing didn't exist then? Or perhaps he did write stuff and the Floodwater destroyed it.

Writing has existed for longer than the Bible says humans have existed...

Actually, I and most people I know think they are literal. I've heard that some people try to say the "Years" were actually months, but then you have five year olds getting married and having kids, which is even worse....

Well, most people I know would disagree... So, impasse.

Remember, there was a firmament of water surrounding the Earth, there was no bad weather, no genetic mistakes, just then had death started, if you don't assume Scientific Laws were exactly the same right beforehand, it is very possible the numbers were literal. I'm not suggesting that its essential that you believe that, but I'd like you to recognize that it can be taken literally.

I absolutely cannot, because that would be to deny facts. Carbon dating may not be 100% accurate, in fact, I seriously doubt it is, BUT, it isn't so wildly inaccurate as to be off by hundreds of thousands of years, even millions of years, in terms of skeletal remains.

Evolution just seems like an odd mechanism for God to choose...

Why is it odd? It seems pretty smart to me. He created a system where He didn't have to constantly do things to maintain it. He basically created a "program" of some sort, which the mathematical patterns maintained in all things can show (fractals for example), that is set up to adapt in consideration to the adaptations occuring externally. Quite brilliant, and way more complex than just an "accident".

Have you seen "The Life of Brian" (it's a movie)? If you have, what was your reaction? Did you think it was good?

Do you have a list of "no go" movies that you or your community decide shouldn't be supported or watched? Movies with anti-religious or blasphemous themes like "The Invention of Lying?"

Or can you appreciate comedy even when it is lampooning your beliefs?

Interesting, I just watched the "Invention of Lying" last night. I can appreciate it, but it is very cynical... as if there were no lying on the planet until someone started talking about religion, which is the premise, using lies to make people feel good. A very Marxist view, but still had funny moments.
If he was so smart, why did he think the ultimately shallow female he was pursuing was so wonderful?
I forgot the "Life of Brian".

"History of the World Part I" has some great moments to it...

It's in jest, it's funny, I like it. If the author is serious about it, well, I suppose that's his problem when he passes away!

What is your opinion on the perpetual mindset of god?

By this, I mean are his laws and decrees absolute and forever unchanging, or can these perceptions have change.

I mainly ask due to the difference, or so I hear, between the Old Testament and the New Testament god? The Former being more vengeful and the latter more forgiving. If that is the cause, and god may change with times (becoming more accepting, forgiven, ect.) then is it not possible that at some time in the present or future, a similar change may occur and opinion would change?

Wow, very good question!
My answer, I won't even try to understand God's mind. I don't think it is possible... Hell, I can't even understand my ex-girlfriend's mind!

 

[timtofly]

What is your opinion on the perpetual mindset of god?

By this, I mean are his laws and decrees absolute and forever unchanging, or can these perceptions have change.

I mainly ask due to the difference, or so I hear, between the Old Testament and the New Testament god? The Former being more vengeful and the latter more forgiving. If that is the cause, and god may change with times (becoming more accepting, forgiven, ect.) then is it not possible that at some time in the present or future, a similar change may occur and opinion would change?

God does not change. The way He interacts does.

The OT was the way the Jews where supposed to act and behave according to the Law. It was strict and unbending.

The NT was God showing us we could not follow the law on our own. Jesus completed what the Law set out to do. We now have Grace.

The OT: punishment was carried out pretty soon after the offence.

The NT: there are consequences to certain actions, but for the most part we are free to choose both good and bad without the immediate wrath of God upon us.

 

[JollyRoger]

I don't know of any Christians in real life who would say porn is OK.

Would you consider these works potentially ok?

"The Body of Chris" (2006) -- Starring newcomer Chris Varney and his well-sculpted body. He and Mrs. Varney, a petite beauty, love each other on two beaches and in a pool.

"Round Yon Virgin" (2006) -- The raven-haired Louisa Flagler and her well-endowed new husband consummate their marriage in a Jacuzzi, losing their virginity together.

"Rod Is the Answer" (2005) -- Christian Porn ironman Rod Parker's most memorable film. Known for their marathon sessions, the Parkers perform in the shower, the kitchen, the garage, and practically every room in the house. Follow-up to the break-through "In Rod We Trust" (2005).

"Oh, Come, All Ye Faithful" (2004) -- Californians Jodi and Michael Connor follow Sunday service with a love-making session, inspired by their reverend's words regarding the value of human touch.

"Lazarus Rises" (2004) -- New Jersey's Mr. and Mrs. Ryan Brooks depict marriage during Biblical times. Wardrobe and locations are impressively authentic

 

[GhostWriter16]

It gives 6 days, and the exact family with all the years they lived up to Jesus, from which we have a record. It is pretty exact.

Remember, Hebrew Geneaologies usually skipped generations.

Symbolism. You know, like "Dawn of a new age"...

This is a valid argument. I personally believe the way it was written implies a literal 6 days (Mainly because the world was perfect before the Fall in my opinion, and therefore there was no death in my opinion) but I don't think its a big issue if you choose to take it symbolically.

Writing has existed for longer than the Bible says humans have existed...

This is tricky because the age of writings invention... can't be clearly established. And besides, we don't know the age of the Earth.

However, I'm not saying he didn't have it, but if he did, the writings were probably lost in the Flood.

Well, most people I know would disagree... So, impasse.

Its not an impasse as long as you replace "Obviously" in your post with "In my opinion." I haven't said anything was obvious so far in this discussion.

I absolutely cannot, because that would be to deny facts. Carbon dating may not be 100% accurate, in fact, I seriously doubt it is, BUT, it isn't so wildly inaccurate as to be off by hundreds of thousands of years, even millions of years, in terms of skeletal remains.

Carbon dating only gives dates of tens of thousands of years, which is possible. But even still, that assumes that we started with all Carbon 12 and we are progressing to Carbon 14 at a certain speed (Unless its Carbon 14 to Carbon 12, remember I'm not a scientist.) However, this is assumption because God could have created the world with any proportions of carbon he chose.

Why is it odd? It seems pretty smart to me. He created a system where He didn't have to constantly do things to maintain it. He basically created a "program" of some sort, which the mathematical patterns maintained in all things can show (fractals for example), that is set up to adapt in consideration to the adaptations occuring externally. Quite brilliant, and way more complex than just an "accident".

Well, remember, he's God, so maintaining it isn't actually "Work." But I think its odd because his system would then require death, therefore death is a good thing, whereas I believe its a necessary evil. I also believe that humans are not in any way animal, which is my biggest issue with Evolution (However, some theistic evolutionists accept the special creation of Adam.)

 

[Flying Pig]

Who are these "most Christians", Domination? That's a completely nonsensical statement.

Well, I'd say that few of us would approve of its use in a monastery, does that count?

 

[kochman]

Remember, Hebrew Geneaologies usually skipped generations.

Not in the OT! It says directly, such and such begat such and such!

This is tricky because the age of writings invention... can't be clearly established. And besides, we don't know the age of the Earth.

It can be established to being older than what is claimed if you take the Bible literally when it talks about time.

However, I'm not saying he didn't have it, but if he did, the writings were probably lost in the Flood.

Do you believe the flood covered the entire earth?

Well, remember, he's God, so maintaining it isn't actually "Work." But I think its odd because his system would then require death, therefore death is a good thing, whereas I believe its a necessary evil. I also believe that humans are not in any way animal, which is my biggest issue with Evolution (However, some theistic evolutionists accept the special creation of Adam.)

Death is simply recycling. It's another step in his master cycle, via death we refertilize the soil, for example...
Either way, He is certainly more hands off now than He once was!
And, He did "rest", on the 7th day... which we could technically be in the middle of, depending on what was meant by "day".

 

[GhostWriter16]

Would you consider these works potentially ok?

These films don't appear to be good quality in my opinion. Then again, I generally don't like R-rated movies in general because of their content (There are exceptions though.)

 

[JollyRoger]

These films don't appear to be good quality in my opinion. Then again, I generally don't like R-rated movies in general because of their content (There are exceptions though.)

Have you made any investigation beyond just seeing my post? Are you rushing to judgment?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Not in the OT! It says directly, such and such begat such and such!

Well, most Hebrew geneaologies did that metaphorically.

You seem to misunderstand what my belief is though. I am not suggesting that every passage in the Bible should be taken literally, but that passages that are meant to be taken literally should be taken literally. Now some, such as Genesis 1-2, are debatable. I say they should be taken literal, you say its symbolic, and the geneaologies could be another case (Even though I've seen people who think the world is 6,000 years old admit to these gaps being able to exist) however I never suggested that obviously metaphorical passages be taken literally.

It can be established to being older than what is claimed if you take the Bible literally when it talks about time.

That MAY be true but it can't be proven.

Do you believe the flood covered the entire earth?

Yes. "Even the highest mountains disappeared under the water." I can Devil's Advocate from other positions, but all of them are difficult to defend.

Death is simply recycling. It's another step in his master cycle, via death we refertilize the soil, for example...
Either way, He is certainly more hands off now than He once was!
And, He did "rest", on the 7th day... which we could technically be in the middle of, depending on what was meant by "day".

So, would you say the same thing about people dying, or are animals simply less valuable and so their death doesn't matter? (I don't have a problem with this, I'm just curious.)

 

[Arakhor]

Well, I'd say that few of us would approve of its use in a monastery, does that count?

I think I would agree, but then we expect monks to obey sacred vows of chastity.

 

[kochman]

So, would you say the same thing about people dying, or are animals simply less valuable and so their death doesn't matter? (I don't have a problem with this, I'm just curious.)

Animals are clearly less valuable... we have dominion over them. They are still important of course.

I am a little upset that my dog may not get into Heaven... I think that should be case by case!

 

[timtofly]

Animals are clearly less valuable... we have dominion over them. They are still important of course.

I am a little upset that my dog may not get into Heaven... I think that should be case by case!

There will be a new earth. With perfect animals I can only assume, and you could ask for an earth job? Personally, I want my own dinosaur petting zoo, to make up for all the times I have heard that it is impossible to do.

PS. My grounds keepers will be evolutionist.

 

[timtofly]

Jolly Roger and his question concerning the time frame in Genesis that compels him to think that God expects humans to mate with animals:

Spoiler :

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Ok we will see that the order is switched in the next chapter, however precedent was set here.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Next Chapter:

15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Now Please tell me how in the world can we farther stretch this story. It is ok to say again that God created things and even do it out of order. First He created the animals and then He created male and female. Then He put man in the Garden and then recreated the animals to check to see if they were compatible for man? Who is the literalist here? He named the animals, but it never says when.

20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

The only word you can go by is the but. However you are free to form your own opinions, but.....

21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Now was Adam alone? If there were no animals would he still be alone? Do the animals increase the loneliness? Since Adam was created last, and was sexless, why would God force "compatibility" on him with any other part of His creation? Was Adam a single being? Was he unique in that there were two of every other creation and only one of him? Was he the companion of God? Would he have been better off being a single companion of God and splitting ever so often to multiply on the earth? Would we enjoy the sex that you so desperately are trying to corrupt, if Adam had stayed sexless? Come on and be reasonable, you cannot have both.

 

[PeteAtoms]

What aspects of other religions do you respect (besides judaism)?

Do you find beauty in the words of Buddha? Are they at all inspiring? Aren't they just as spiritually profound as anything Jesus said? What makes Buddha wrong and Jesus right?

 

[timtofly]

What aspects of other religions do you respect (besides judaism)?

Do you find beauty in the words of Buddha? Are they at all inspiring? Aren't they just as spiritually profound as anything Jesus said? What makes Buddha wrong and Jesus right?

We are all moral creatures who have similiar ideas of right and wrong. Since Jesus is God and Buddha is "a way" to God; I have eliminated the middle man. BTW every religion is the "middle man" thus I do not adhere to any religion.

 

[warpus]

Would you continue to accept Jesus as your saviour if he came back and it turned out that he rejected Christianity and was practicing a form of Buddhism instead?

 

[civplayah]

Are you mainstream or liberal protestant?

 

[timtofly]

Would you continue to accept Jesus as your saviour if he came back and it turned out that he rejected Christianity and was practicing a form of Buddhism instead?

If one excepted a gift and the gift giver changed his mind, would one have a choice?

Are you mainstream or liberal protestant?

I am just a protestor who likes to figure things out and answer questions. I tried to be a Catholic, but they have changed and excommunicated me. I would prefer to be a Jew, but I am a German. I enjoy psychology, science, and history. I repair HP laser jet printers. Mainstream and liberal I cannot afford at the moment.