The soul is also alive in Purgatory, and since people who are in Heaven can talk to Christ himself why not ask for them to pray for you?
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The soul is also alive in Purgatory, and since people who are in Heaven can talk to Christ himself why not ask for them to pray for you?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Well yeah, but they're still physically dead. Besides, would praying for them change anything after they've been judged? It is appointed for man once to die, and then judgment...
Why, when you can just ask Christ himself?
Is God so ridiculous as to say "Oh, its just one of my kids, he can just ask Mary, if she asks me I'll take care of it,"
I know that was a bit exaggerated, but seriously, why not just ask Christ himself?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I don't think "and then [literally "after this"] judgement" implies that judgement is immediate. It could refer to the future Last Judgement as well as instant Particular Judgement. If Particular Judgement of a soul immediately following death is (always) true, then what is the point of the Last Judgement? Judgement Day is an extremely important element of the faith and biblical references to it are much clearer and more explicit. I see no reason to minimize its importance by emphasizing particular judgement, especially since the belief in particular judgement is so common in pagan religions.
It is possible (although not necessarily the case) that prayer for the dead could be of some benefit to those who have died but are still awaiting the end of this world to rise again and be judged.
It is possible (although not necessarily the case) that prayer for the dead could be of some benefit to those who have died but are still awaiting the end of this world to rise again and be judged.
kochman
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Yes, this was one of ML's major points... that we are all a priesthood to God, all equal... not that priests are better or more worthy to be listened to.Why, when you can just ask Christ himself?
Is God so ridiculous as to say "Oh, its just one of my kids, he can just ask Mary, if she asks me I'll take care of it,"
I know that was a bit exaggerated, but seriously, why not just ask Christ himself?
Now we have dead people that are more important... priests... saints... Mary... anyone else in line before us?
Holycannoli
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Priests are ordained, and ML had major issues in his life that contributed to his thinking, including his belief that people don't have to work for salvation, but that it's given to them whether or not they do good works (Sola Fide - salvation by faith alone). One guy with a troubled past comes along, does not fit in with the monastic or religious life, and then attacks it like that is the problem and not him.
GhostWriter16
Deity
What in the world does this even mean?
Salvation IS by faith alone BTW. Works are evidence of Salvation.
kochman
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Hahaha... yes, I know, you believe ML was inspired by Satan himself... Blah blah blah...
GhostWriter16
Deity
I don't think he's going quite that far... trust me, I've seen it done by people on here, but not by him.
Hey I resemble that remark!
Actually no I don't, I don't believe I've actually said Martin Luther was inspired by Satan himself, but I've called him stupid and an idiot on a number of occasions.
GhostWriter16
Deity
*To any overly strict moderator- I did not use Civ_King's name
To the point above, I know you've never said that, but you've acted like it before.
But here is the question, where is Martin Luther now? Purgatory? Hell? Heaven?
*To any overly strict moderator- I did not use Civ_King's name
To the point above, I know you've never said that, but you've acted like it before.
But here is the question, where is Martin Luther now? Purgatory? Hell? Heaven?
Hell because of heresy
GhostWriter16
Deity
But what if he repented from perfect contrition? How do you know he did not?
kochman
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Judge not... lest ye be judged.
GhostWriter16
Deity
Ask a Protestant: How common is "lucifer = devil = satan" as a concept in your church? Is there any debate about whether Satan is Lucifer, or if that's a misinterpretation?
AND
Do you socialise with people from your church? How much are they a component of your social circle?
AND
Do you socialise with people from your church? How much are they a component of your social circle?
GhostWriter16
Deity
They are one and the same. In fact, I've never heard any other interpretation.
Very big part.
Marl
Chieftain
Just to point out, Ignatios spoke of catholic church as it was in his days: one, universal church. You know, the one mentioned in Creed used by us orthodox and by roman catholics too?
"I believe [...] In one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;"
So, as long as the Roman catholic church and the eastern orthodox church are separated, it's a bit wrong to state that Catholic church = the western church.
kochman
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1) I've always thought of them as the same as well
2) Not really, though there is the type that does... they are generally not in my social circle.
timtofly
One Day
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Every thing changed for me after I was married.
Being an ex-Protestor, would you consider yourself: having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof; a devil; or trying to reject everything you know about God, and knowing you can't? I am not being sarcastic, just curious. If none of the above apply, are you free to describe yourself? You have an interesting grasp on the Bible.
Not a protestant, but since I live in such a small town and used to be one I feel comfortable answering this.
1. Extremely common, this is the only way I've ever heard it.
2. Nope
3. Not a huge deal, everybody socializes and befriends people regardless of the church they go to, AFAIK.
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